eskwire

Not much, really. It got hurt. That is to be expected in life. The ego wants so much, it gets hurt and disappointed regularly. Sit and feel your feelings without judging them. Send yourself compassion for that pain. Then think about your wife and really imagine her ego's pain - why she may be seeking attention - and send her compassion.

@Dharam She may be an insatiable black hole of insecurity that needs infinite attention. Or you are not giving her enough attention. I don't know the situation. Often, our male partners don't realize how much they ignore us. Or they give us attention in the ways THEY want, not what we want. Have you criticized her much lately? That will send her to seek attention elsewhere.

@key Meaning is like breathing for the mind's chatter. You breathe in, it fills you up, you breathe out, it is gone, you begin anew. As you age, much will gain and lose meaning. The idea that life is meaningless gave me great freedom and relief, and therefore meaning, and surely this meaning will be lost as well one day. In summary: It's ok. The point is to detach, let go.

The bull!!! I love this one. Some of these vision boards were bumming me out. This one has renewed my confidence.

It could be said that no one did, it just happened. It could be said the ego did, so is it playing with itself?

What plays with it?

Yes and no. You distance from it and can eventually "overcome" it by seeing it as an illusion, so to speak. You do not overcome it. It does not exist. Yet it does, because it has an effect. Much like a dream "exists" - if it didn't exist, why did you have night sweats over it and bore your friends recounting it? But it didn't exist. Or did it? Just kidding. It is something to watch because, if it is not watched with awareness, it consumes the mind. The mind thinks it is real. And important. And right. And actions stemming from such a place are generally not what we uphold as our highest ideals. Simply observe what is felt when you observe egotistical behavior in others. The ego does not necessarily have a function, though many argue that it is required for productivity. This is a trick of the ego to preserve itself, of course, but try telling that to an ego.

@faithful Fasting has benefits. People mean different things when they talk about "detoxing." I have seen detox powders that are comprised of soy and corn ingredients, things I would detox FROM. Anything can be bastardized and misused - packaged and sold. I don't listen to anyone who recommends eating cheese and then prances around like they have learned the smart art of "balance" and "moderation." Cheese is addictive. People laughed at the World Health Organization report stating that, but it was a groundbreaking admission of how radically different we need to be eating and how addicted we are to allergens. Imo. Also, be careful about eating certain fish "more than twice a week," as recommended in that pyramid. There is a lot of conflicting info out there because it's complicated and people like to think in terms of "good and bad." You may not have a grip on what you're talking about until you've read about and played with food for years. Finding the conflicting info like you did helps you see the differing perspectives and issues. Try not to get so attached to the opinions as you read.

How correct and inclusive do you need to be before you can speak with confidence? Your ego's just getting the best of you. You either want a bunch of praise for being right and good, which is absurd and egoic, or you want to be in control of making everyone feel good, which is absurd and egoic. You let it go by allowing the thoughts/opinions/feelings to exist within "your" mind, the same way you allow them (and even try to accommodate) in others. You are the others. They are you. Give yourself the same openness and acceptance so you won't have this unnecessary sense of conflict about *how things are supposed to be*.

It might be a respect issue. All of these social rules seem stupid at times, but a lot of them are about minimizing how intrusive we are being on others. That's why nobody in New York City talks to each other - subconsciously, to be polite and kind. I don't like hearing kids scream, why do I want to hear you scream? I want to scream sometimes and, if I'm drunk around other drunk people who think it's funny, then I do. Use your awareness to determine when it is appropriate - aka more beneficial than detrimental.

It's true tho.

People often say this and the reality is they haven't done much of anything to change. Look at how afraid you are to go live in a retreat. You're scared of a RETREAT. Makes it pretty clear you haven't actually tried anything all that intense or crazy or probably anything with real seriousness. Nobody asked to be born. But you're here. Welcome to the Terrordome - go fucking look at the beautiful sky. That's the point.

Yes and it was beautiful! What a great method.

This may very well be another way to discuss the same "phenomenon." Enlightenment "experiences" happen and changes integrate. To speak metaphorically, it's like waking up and falling back asleep, but the asleep part is different - even if you are not constantly living in "undifferentiated everything." I can live with that progress. I don't HAVE to live one way. For me, the difference is perhaps this. I am the kind of person who needs to follow a path of the extreme to end up in the middle. If I shoot for the middle, I will end up 1. not interested enough to even start or 2. pretty much right back where I started. I need sweeping, dynamic goals to see any progress. Personally. Others don't. It seems like we are both discussing raising consciousness with different language and methodologies. Anyway, godspeed! Thank you for understanding my frustration.

I agree that it's about outgrowing evil, and that's what I mean by eliminating it through liberation. It becomes a non-issue. Socrates is definitely talking about eradicating it. Perhaps liberation is not everyone's plan on the whole forum, but it is the basic "plan" or "path" of the people with whom you two argue with all the time (about this topic). This topic has been rehashed a number of times. I say vague things about liberation, you say vague things about multi dimensional synchronicity. We may even be talking about the exact same shit! ? I have explained myself in another discussion with you and it was clear to me. Why does it matter if a skeptic wants to ride my ass about it? Or if Socrates is confused, nobody can fix it for him, and his ego can't take it? What stress test are you proposing and would your methodologies hold up under the same test? What are you even talking about? It sounds like you do therapy-ish work and that's nice. Therapy was helpful for me because it pointed me toward enlightened teachers. I just don't understand why your work can't gel with these spiritual matters we discuss. I really don't see this big difference and distinction that gets you two all argumentative and judgemental about people's paths or ideas on this forum. Like, shouldn't you spend more of your time talking to mainstream medical and psych professionals about yours ideas and plans if you think the people who dig enlightenment on here are just a bunch of dodos? These ideas, meant to assist you to get to a place beyond ideas, have helped me immensely. I remember to be alive now, and ideas like "harmony" and "multi faceted something something" didn't help me get there. So, why shit on my path? Honestly, I don't know what you even propose people do, but from my experience, if I forced a ton of demands on myself about how I needed to act, how many habits I had to install, how many people I needed to help, and how many jobs I need to have, I just wouldn't do anything. I would feel too neurotic to move and I'd be a huge bitch. Maybe you have a lot of energy. Good for you. Your world isn't everyone's. Edit. Sorry, I get frustrated talking to you two. I've had some enlightenment experiences, but it has not stuck. As such, I am still susceptible to getting egoically defensive. I have also "experienced" what we are talking about - when we talk about Truth, enlightenment, liberation, non-duality - and the part that gets me is that...you guys literally don't know what you're talking about when you dismiss it. You just have to be there, man. ?

@Salaam @Socrates Alright, you have the floor, what is the plan you two have to eradicate evil? Everyone else's plan is to get liberated (aka eliminate the evil we generate first) and that's been made pretty clear to anyone listening with an open mind - those who don't insist on misunderstanding liberation as disconnection from reality and apathetic ne'erdowellism. So. Lay it on us. I know Salaam has a radio show/podcast thing. Obviously, that is like steps 1-50 of evil eradication. I mean, I can't believe it's not gone yet.

@username You just used the Socratic method on Socrates. I love you. I love you. I love you.

You're very welcome.

First, I want to begin by saying that all of this has also happened in my lifetime "to me" and it was deeply painful. So, I am sorry for your pain. My family situation was bad and, due to that, I sought bad relationships with men that always seemed to leave me uncared for, judged, abandoned, wasted. To acknowledge that you feel this way may be self-pitying. But what is it to pity someone? It is to not hold them in dignity. You do not hold yourself in dignity and, therefore, you throw a pity party. Of course you do. It's more Loreena mistreating Loreena. Now, I will let you in on a secret. You ready? Like really ready? You better be sitting down. Just kidding. But really. *There is no such thing as self-love.* Think of how meaningless it is to "love" someone. That could mean many different things but, whatever it is, it is temporary. Oh sure, you love your spouse, when you don't hate his guts. And you love your mom, when you think about her -but not really while you're playing tennis. This is a useless concept and that's why you have no traction with it. Byron Katie says that if you think you don't love yourself, you do not know what love is. Now, your little human organism was not nurtured properly and this takes some mending so that different behaviors, thoughts, and emotions happen in Loreena world. This is one way to start. Then, of course, take meditation and enlightenment very seriously. PS As to attention...acknowledge the attention as a tool you can use to do whatever you'd like that requires attention (liiiiike starting a business or charity). You don't have to go ga-ga over how great you are, but see your talents as you would see the talents in any other human being. You are too attached to being separate. Please for god's sake don't waste the attention you get on dudes who want to hit and quit a pretty girl, or show her off to his friends. When I was my hottest, my time was the most wasted by dudes. They also lied to me - because they just wanted to sleep with me at any cost. That can be a major source of confusion and sadness in your life. Be careful about having an addiction to male attention. Plenty of guys will happily fill the needle up for you and not care how it hurts you.

@Loreena Why do you say you have no emotional support? @SFRL has a point about your looks and I see it as a matter of gratitude. You are so pretty and have a sweetness about you that brings you a lot of attention regardless of the content of what you say. Many people, such as myself, are not quite as pretty and come across in a way that makes some people disinterested. Regardless of the content of my speech, it will likely go more ignored than not. You have gifts. And that is a gift that some people would kill for. I think you are blind to it because you have it. Use the attention you get so easily for good and, yes, take care of your body. It is amazing how big of a difference exercise makes in your mental health. You don't feel motivated now, but try a gratitude practice. Be grateful to be so pretty and popular, as well as to have veins! And tissues! A heart! Eyes!!! We can heal ourselves and transformm! Our bodies are amazing. We take our gifts for granted then call it depression.

Attachment and detachment. I have a vague sense of what they mean and have felt moments of detachment, but I do not know how to cultivate it. I struggle with attachment.

@Stoica Doru Yay!!!! ?

@Socrates Perhaps one can contemplate "assessment" vs "judgement" vs "criticism" vs "belief." What are possible differences in these terms and what are their relationships to the concern about perfectionism originally posited? This exercise might shed light on where exactly the toxicity comes in.

@Socrates I've thought about this for some time today. Perfectionism and a tendency toward criticism do not change the entire world. They are tendencies of the mind that hurt you. In a place of openness, compassion, and acceptance, change can occur. It is the most effective place from which to act. Understanding that may encourage a path toward enlightenment. Or, enlightenment may happen spontaneously while you are simply trying to navigate your usual paradigm with more ease. Or, enlightenment may not occur at all, but it need not be seen as something separate. "Its own path," so to speak, with its own tools that possess no value otherwise. These are judgements. They are false in their incompleteness. I can say with experience in this that working on controlling or changing these types of dysfunctional and ineffective tendencies only goes so far without enlightenment. I speak of this not to shove it down your throat, but to tell you there is another place to be where these matters are dissipated. They aren't dissipated along with all effectiveness in the world or concern for humanity, but dissipated in their striving, seeking, and misunderstanding. This is beautiful, not annoying. You don't have to embrace it. But the concepts that paint that picture for you (meaningless once you've arrived) are not something to brush off as something other than your path. They are part of any path of personal development. Of full fruit or not is irrelevant. Take these concepts as a way to open your mind so that it functions in a clean and clear way. If nothing else. I give you a hard time. You are smart. I see such resistance - so much so that there is judgement about how to be coached on letting go of judgement. It is woven into everything for you. That is painful, unnecessary, and ineffective. Have you had many jobs? Do your co-workers and bosses and underlings respond to this judgement? Do your loved ones, friends and family, snap into making changes because you judge? How effective has all this judgement been in showing results? If it effective, then by all means keep a tool. If it isn't, then really think it through. Or don't and just be.

@Socrates The practical, personal development advice is to 1. Change your meditation technique. 2. Write down your judgements and question them.