theleelajoker

@inFlowWhen did you become aware of "it" and started to see yourself in others? For me (my character, whatever, let's keep it simple with "me" and "you") it was this year. But the funny thing is, suddenly other people I have known for a long time start to talk to me about "it" like they have always known and now I'm feel like the stupid one for not seeing it before. Real interesting this reflection-stuff and interconnections. Of course there have always been hints, but it's like reading a book for the first or second time. First time you see the hints, but not the significance, the veiled meaning. Second time reading you're like "ahhh here it's hinted so clearly, now everything connects, so well done" This is interesting because I get along better with people around me. Less time to think about this experience. More interaction, more distraction. And their Karma is a reflection of my Karma, so....feels like a circle.

This is a funny story. I have one, not the same but still interesting. I return from a meditation retreat, I sit in a train. A guy with tattoos, in his 40s, average weight and height, but looking a bit run down comes and sits next to me (many other free places but he choose me). He's drinking a beer and his breath is alcoholic too. After a while, we have a small interaction where he provokes me a bit. Nothing too serious, but he also says something weird, some stuff about him being a former psychologist. And after provoking me further, we make eye contact. I do my best to look directly at him and try to be hard with my gaze, showing strength and not weakness. Again, in a provoking voice he says something like "you don't have the balls for this, you're not neurotic enough". I don't react. I just sit there, not moving, holding eye contact. Honestly don't really know what else to do lol. Suddenly he completely changes, his voice becomes soft, and with real disappointment he says "ohh, I just wanted to spark an interesting conversation!" He sounded like a kid in a situation where his mum told him that he has to stop playing with his favorite toy because kindergarten is over. It's like you said, just "snapping out of his crazy persona". He gets up and leaves. I sit there and don't know what the fuck just happened.

@inFlow Yeah. Hi you! Ahh.. me...uhm..us?

Yeah, my experience resonates. Especially with @Davino replies. For me, it's blocks, or stuck energy, or contractions especially in the stomach area, chest area and in the jaw up to the neck. I also have weird muscle contractions. Psylocibin works best for me to deal with it. Last big trip I cried for 10 minutes like hell and don't know why. Stanislav Grov did interesting work, for instance re the birth experience. It seems to me to be some complex interplay of nervous system, inner energies, cellular storage, muscular tensions, psyche. Call it trauma or past experiences, doesn't matter. There's two ways of looking at it: Shit I want to dissolve this! Sucks I can feel it it bothers me. It's a true challenge for me, for sure It's a privilege to feel that, to be so sensitive. Most people don't feel that much (like me in the past). Both POV are valid in some way, but the second one obviously is more useful re acceptance, the first one more useful to do what has been recommended before: integrate it in your life beyond psycedelics. For me, the best combination is classic ying-yang stuff. Functional training to strengthen the body, to put conscious tension on your body. And then literally yin yoga, I love to do that the days after trips. Breath work etc and infinite other ways of sports and movement that resonate with you. One final note: I recommend to NOT go directly at this blockage points in your body. Especially with the Vipassana technique. I did this mistake and it was overwhelming in my case. Approach it very slowly, indirectly. You mention the heart for instance - if you know where the center of this feeling is, start your attention left and right, up and down from this spot. Circling it centimeter by centimeter, milimeter by millimeter. Don't stay there too long. Inshallah, these spots will slowly easy up and will become comfortable. Can be different for everyone of course so see how it's for you. Better cautious than sorry

Well said. Once in a while, we're lucky enough to find a situation where both feel for each other the way you described. I believe there's something in the experience of a woman (or man) loving you freely just exactly the way you are in all facets of your personality. The feeling of "if I could be anywhere in the world, with anyone, I still would choose to be with you right here right now". You can feel it and it gives a unique and very strong energy. (Yeah yeah sme will now be tempted to say "you can love yourself like that" and it's true, but also different).

I agree on the depth. I agree on a different filter of perception. But go deep enough, what do you actually see? You see others, independent beings? I see nothing but reflections and appearances.

I can see some of the effects you describe. It's not black and white IME. I had meditation retreats I came back from and I was full of life, joy, lightness and couldn't wait to do stuff back in "reality" But I also had times when I came back and had a hard time giving a fuck about life. So, depends on many variables. Phase of life, circumstances, environment, etc

That's a great post IMO. Especially the first sentence. There's stuff I can barely talk about with some friends (awakening stuff, illusion of self, experiences of solipism), so this it's partly outsourced to this forum. Why? Social interaction, exchange, feeling more understood.

@Schizophonia Man, you have complex thoughts and I discover something new and interesting in pretty much every post of you. But also, I agree with @Sugarcoat that it's hard for me to follow your thought process and post above. I think you gained a skill in analyzing the psyche, but it's also a skill to simplify stuff again. A good exercise I do for myself or others is "Whatever you want to express, can you put it into one simple sentence?" In your case, maybe maximum of 5 sentences? Then you're also more likely to get the feedback you're looking for.

Damn, it's a trap!

One of the funniest things I have seen in a while Thanks for posting!

Nice story, happy you found an unexpected nice evening. Bold marked by me. I think SOMEONE and/ or SOMETHING to focus on can help. People can get you easily back to yourself because of interactions, feedback loops. If you collect stamps, or have plants in the garden, or paint, the feedback effect is much weaker.

Great way to put it. First, I imagined an autistic Hindu elephant 🐘 Made me laugh 😂 Second, it's true you need the biological basic and to do this, you need either nature or people or both. And tatatata, the you enter the arena of potential problems. It's not a bug, it's a feature hehe : )

If the saints and mystics of back then had YouTube, they would have watched cat videos most of the time 🐈 No 2 in priority would have been shorts on tiktok, followed by pornhub (for educational purposes only)

Damn. Asexual?

Maybe I should try that bi-sexual thing, then all problems solved right?

Nice description. Thanks.

First three 10 days, it's almost the same with minor differences in instructions. You need three 10 day courses, then you are "advanced enough" and can do sattiphatana course. Did it first time this year. Daily structure is basically the same, but the discourse changes and you get a script - the sattiphatana sutta. You're allowed to read it, takes notes. The text is nice, but the sattiphatana course made me dislike the Goenka approach and dogma more. Won't go into details, best to make up your own mind. I'm very grateful for the opportunities, organisation, infrastructure of Goenka Vipassana but it has it flaws as well. What I heard is that the longer courses -20,30 day etc - don't give you much more teaching, you're just more on your own. But don't know sattiphatana is the most advanced I did.

If it's an exchange it's not selfish. Re the other questions, I don't know. Normally we are social beings but if you're not delusional but truly ok with being on your own, why not? It's a thin line only you can know how you truly feel vs. you tell yourself a story how you feel re being social

Interesting. All in all makes sense, the intuition vs. thinking mind. You're referring to everyday interactions (work, friends etc), or limiting your view to psychic/ esp/ obe stuff? So at work, you limit thinking as well or strive for Intuition/thinking balance?

(Bold by me.) @Natasha Tori MaruYes it's crazy, once I have recognized this, everything changes. It's funny because cultural conditioning tells us something different - there's always someone else to blame, some external cause, stuff independent from our own actions, believes. It seems to me it's (often) enough to direct attention towards something. Yesterday, about the same time @Schizophonia wrote his post, I had a conversation with a long time meditator about how some people refuse valuable information while others just say "interesting tell me more". Some time later I read this and think "ahh that's funny" 😅 I get you here, communication is a skill. You can go great lengths if you can individualize your message for every person in every moment. You can also achieve a lot when your general baseline communication is calm, open, non-aggressive, non-threatening, non-preaching. Then less individualization is required because you already have in mind not triggering the defenses mechanisms of the human psyche. But I guess it's also a matter of time and energy. How much of myself am I willing to give? Plus: people need a motivation that is strong enough to be open to listening. Avoidance of suffering or possibility of pleasure.

One of my friends had a saying when the woman is very active in communicating and promoting a romantic encounter and he as man has to do nothing but not run away. "it's like you drive in the forest and the deer jumps on top of your cargo area as soon as you reach the first trees 🦌🌲 🛻"

@UnbornTao @Joshe Joke above aside, you both have a point but I just assume that IN THIS CONTEXT LOL you are already aware of this And I liked the tree example. Gave me something to CONTEMPLATE @Schizophonia just pointed out an interesting perspective about resistance re exchange of information in another thread. I wonder right now about the connection, how I can reduce resistance by smartly contextualizing such information. Kind of gives me a guideline: Where's the objective stuff we can all agree on? Understanding the subjective context of the other Understanding his current limits ..... More work to do on that...tomorrow

@SchizophoniaWow. Nicely put. Giving great insight to some situations I have been experiencing. I am also certain that psychedelics are very limited at breaking down these structures. I had this feeling several times, when I talked to people (who sometimes I've known for a long time) that told me how great psychedelics are in doing this job. Then I asked them how often they did this psychedelic. After their answer I stayed silent. Amazing. I have experienced this connection, but I could not grasp it like that. Yeah I can see situations where this happened right in front of me. There is IME also another reaction that can occur - I feel humiliated, and because of this remove myself from the situation, and thus remove the source of information, the alternative structure - the other person - out of my field of awareness. You need some strength, some experience with conflict to humiliate the other one. Because you have to fear a potential retaliation if you do. And if you are afraid of this, afraid of conflict in general, you don't do this. You retreat. Flight or fight.