theleelajoker

Yes some people feel put on the spot. Happened to me, it's too much for some. But it can also be quite playful, for example in romantic interactions, in one of the first dates when there is still uncertainty where things are heading:) +1 It's de-programming. All this concept thinking can be a real hindrance in life (speaking also from own experience) @JosheHoly shit you just put some stuff I have been experiencing but never quite get into words. Especially this part (Bold marked my me): Many people feel threatened by this intensity but others love to be the center of my attention for a while because I probe and get to know them with the same depth of perception, analysis, and acceptance that I give to myself. This "for a while" I had a lot recently, with men and women. People in some situations clearly love the attention they get, they like the interactions, they open up, but suddenly they then distance themselves. Why do you think it's like that? You already mentioned intensity and I think there's something to it. I know I built my skill in observation and depth of perception during many hours of Vipassana and oh yeah, that took lots of time to get used to as well. +1 in the inner workings and people not enough being interested in transcending their current level of their psyche. I say "not enough" because for a start, they are but then IME fear takes over.

For me, on the one hand, it's impossible to just continue to chop wood, carry water. Like @Sempiternity said above, everything changed for me re how I see life and other people, how I relate to others. Can't look at life, people anymore like I did before. Once the veil of ignorance shifted a bit, can't go back. At the same time - and I know it's kind of contradicting myself - it's funny because nothing really happened, right? Just the way or looking at things and people. Rest is constant.Outside world is still there. Work, money, food, social life, partner,hobby and all this other basic human needs still need to be done. Chop wood, carry water. 🪵 🪓 💦

IMO on of your best posts in recent times. Especially the "open end exploration" and this part Don't try to force a single conclusion upon reality. You always want to be open to radical new consciousness -- whatever that might be. I remember Buddha saying one of the factors of enlightenment is " investigation of Dhamma" - so it's a mystery and will remain one. But this also means there is no final teaching, no final "God is this or that", which also means that we could stop about half the discussion here in this forum because it could be or become something radical new every moment, right?

Lol. Don't understand why there's so much dick size some comparison re to how much someone is awak, and how everybody believes he found "THE" awaking. Just look at the vocabulary you used. But ok, Leo acts this way so of course there will be others playing this game as well. You can tell about your experience without telling others how "shallow" and 'absolute beginner " others are. Maybe there one step ahead, you just can't see it now? One could make the argument that just taking a substance to induce some state is very far away from being awake. Being awake could also mean 100 different things for 100 different people. For me, for instance, it's very close to the OP: being lucid, being aware, understanding, integration, action within this reality. Doing things for the sake of doing them with as much joy, intention but also healthy distance. Realizing that things that seem a certain way are likely to be different then the appearance in the surface. Would not go so far as to say "I am god" though. It's more a "Ok I'm part of everything, there's a conection to everything and everyone".

That was quite interesting. Would be cool if we learned and discussed something like that in school instead of many other things that have little use or are even harmful in creating cultural programming.

One thing I have been doing lately: Either expressing what I want to say nonverbally or asking the other person: "Can you express what you want to express right now without words"? Not always easy, but fun. Can also be a game changer in discussions etc with partner,family for instance.

Why does it matter?

In agree that those are good principles, but in my experience just reading them is not enough to really experience a change. What I mean is that basically anyone could write a set of rules or principles to live by with two minutes but (almost) nobody actually lives like that. Here I do it in the fly: Physical movement and breath Be authentic Eat healthy Build strong social connections Be open re experiences/ don't judge Do what you love/ what really matters for you Be present Be active and decisive in your actions It's a mental trap in my POV that just reading or listening to sth or someone will create the desires change. It's not completely useless, but in my opinion the focus in education (and self help) is way too much on concepts and not enough on skills how to actually put this into practice. I feel it's a side effect of our intellectualized and overly regulated western society.

@James123 happy you're back

Anyone knows "Le deuxième acte"? Great movie. Watched it maybe half a year ago, and had some awakenings afterwards. Now when I go out and talk to people, there's sometime some role switching. You know that I know, and I know that you know, we stop pretending and we both talk about it. Quite funny. Go and give it a try. But you can also do the opposite. I have an old south park episode in mind, the kids visited some reenactment show of old times few hundreds years ago. I remember the motto was "never break character", so the reenactment actors stayed in their role no matter what. Quite funny, too. Pick your game. Enjoy the show But once I have experienced the first game, it's very hard to forget completely. Only works when I am deeply involved into something. You have no idea what I'm talking about? Welcome to South Park

Yeah fear seems to be very central to this experience we call life. I already wrote it few days ago in another thread, feels l like the "play test" episode on Black mirror E2S3

Puhhhh...the honest answer is of course that it's different many times. Sometimes I stopped and reacted to the fear. Could not go into it. Accepting that I wasn't ready. Just too much of fear, feeling like dying, almost like a reflex when you touch fire you have this survival instinct of automatically withdrawing the hand. Other times I can stay more consistent, breath, try to stay as still as possible. Second n'y second, inch by inch facing it. Or that times I take a break, few moments, minutes, and give it a go again. My body reacts sometimes quite strong, close to throwing up, or becoming dizzy. Then I just try to not throw up and just stay conscious lol Sometimes I move a bit, let the energy find a channel, or actually let my body be moved by ... Let's call it inner energy. Sometimes I do some mental self talk "OK stay, breath, focus, relax....". Or I tell my self "ok that's what you want, you want to face this fear, so do your best" reframing it as something I want to experience vs. something I want to avoid (of course that alone is not sufficient as I can feel the fear physically) Other times I play with the focus of my attention, within or outside my body Hope that helps in some way re your question. Will experiment the next days maybe something good will come up

Well, I am in the middle of it, with lots ups and downs. Long story short: what helped and still helps me most: Get into my body, physical stuff: dancing, swimming, running, bike, cuddling, sauna, stretching, yoga, breathing, etc etc Being social, meeting people, being open, being authentic. Simply by putting myself out there, "life" puts me into touch with great people that are more or less on the same stage Relax. Goal is to be relaxed anytime, anywhere, in any situation. I tell myself consciously to relax, I check where I hold tensions in my body and relax them as good as possible. It's reprogramming myself to do this as good as possible. Enjoy the ride PS: I do all the things above simply for me to feel good. But doesn't matter if you're a man or woman, the great side effect is that the quality of my interactions with others increase. Or as the guys in the forum would call it, "better game" lol

You do things that have no purpose only for one reason - you like doing simply for the sake of doing. It's play. The real "result" is the activity itself, the apparent result just a means to an end. Welcome to the show, grab some popcorn 🍿. Enjoy the ride.

You mentioned gender war and I see it a lot, going both ways. A lot of emphasis on differences and superiority instead of appreciating the differences and leaning from each other. Don't know how representative it is, but I was lucky to have an 2 years older sister with whom I have a great relationship. So for me it was normal since my birth to learn from a woman, and to have a woman around me that a) was not my mother and b) not interesting for me beyond her being my sister. (It can be hard to keep friendships between m-f if there is attraction) Men often seem too insecure to learn from women while for me it often was a "jackpot" to learn from female friends, girlfriends, family: Free knowledge? Different perspective? Experiences I don't have access to? Amazing, tell me, show me If I had to name one thing that I learned through the women I met in my life, then it's intuition. Seeing how they do and them putting me in touch with mine. If I had to name one thing I believe I could put women more in touch with, it's a vibe of clarity and calmness. Not to prove that I am detached or stoic, just balancing the energies. And to pass on calmness, I need to be clam myself of course. (Not saying that I'm calm or have clarity all the time, but it's something I sometimes can tap into to create a comfortable vibe.) So, to put a positive touch on the whole gender stuff: What did or do you learn as a man from women? And vice versa, what you learn as a woman from men? Where do you experience synergy effects? PS: A quote comes to mind. Audre Lorde: 'It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept, and celebrate those differences.' She said it more in a context of racism, but I believe it perfectly fits in gender stuff, too

Sounds like a good approach

Recently, other people I meet and interact with seem to be...well, just reflections of my current or previous thoughts, emotions, actions, or projections/. believes. Many small details about recent experiences, lifestyle and other details match very closely. Sometimes, it seems that another person has just been created according to my current state, it's like an assembly line that constantly creates new mirror images. So one the one hand it's nice, because I am connected to "external reality", realizing that nothing is truly external. On the other hand, it becomes harder for me to take others (or myself) seriously. How sentient is the individual if it's "only" a reflection from the mirror factory? Also, those others have knowledge that goes beyond what they could know within their individual 3-D reality. For instance, a person I just met makes an insider joke that is only known to me and another person. (Yeah once okay but things like this become a routine). It's not only people but at times also other appearances - I have a certain mood and then songs appear that fit that mood tremendously well (again, once okay but it's really out of the ordinary) So, it feels more like I am in interaction with "something" that a) just takes different appearances and forms b) is somehow related to everything that is happening on my field of awareness (which is all I got and all I have ever known of reality). So, while being aware that if others meet IRL are part of this something, then others in this forum are as well: Any opinions? How does this mirroring work? So I am also just a mirror for others the same they are for me? How to best communicate & interact? I know about the idea of Indras net of jewels for instance, that's the best symbol to describe my experience. All in all this feels very solipsistic.

Nobody knows what anybody wants to know and somebody pretends to know while everybody watches.

I was not talking about a glass of water. As said above, two relationships evolved out of me really wanting to be with this woman. Jobs is another example, and when I found them I was definitely not in a "having" state. Same with a flat for instance. Where you get me more is this part : The resistance.... that's something I can actually feel. How much resistance do I have towards something. That makes much more sense to me then the "having" mindset. I can seek, but I don't have resistance towards not having it right now Thanks will let that sink in..

Both. Saying that I experienced both, also I wanted sth and really got it while still caring about it. So it's sometimes opposite, sometimes attracting what you want? Like a sinus curve? Random for my tiny mind, forever random 😂

But is it REALLY like that? I read this new age idea a lot, and I have instances where it is true. I stopped caring about sth and suddenly, boom it happens. But also, I have instances where I got what I wanted by just setting the intention, or action, or both. Did none of you really ever got what he wanted?

Hm so every life is different for everybody of course. There was for instance one time I met a girl and I was immediately into her, really crazy my type, very beautiful and very cool, too. So I really wanted to be with her, really made an effort to court her without being too much and after a few months we eventually became a couple. That gave me the believe that if you really stay consistent and honest with your intention and feelings, it eventually (can) pay off. However, I tried to repeat this intention in the relationship with her - "ok let's make this work"- and it didn't Bottom line - really liking something/ someone and honestly feeling that must not preclude you by definition from this experience happening. Might be your personal karma, who knows.

Fair point, it's all subjective. So you never succeeded with a woman you found attractive? I kind of see what you're saying, and I remember occasions of me not wanting to be with others made them suddenly want me. But as I said, if it was always like that you would never have a relationship, never get with a woman you like etc. I often I got what I wanted - if it was a woman, a job, a flat etc etc.

Hm not sure I follow completely. You lost me a bit here If I never behaved in a way that I feel I was a jerk, and if I never think of anyone else as a jerk, then I never meet a jerk?