theleelajoker

OK focusing on the content of the discussion (bold barked by me). My experience and perspective as of now: Agreement to bold text: there is dynamic, it requires experience, and there are most likely limits Thoughts are one part of the system, and focusing on thoughts ALONE are unlikely to create significant changes; cellular structure, body, nervous system etc is important, too. Examples for this: When I fasten, or after sports, deep sleep my organism produces different thoughts effortlessly without intention for different thoughts YOU CANNOT SIMPLY DECIDE WHAT TO BELIEVE: Think of the next election. What is your choice, which party, which political direction? You are convinced that THIS CHOICE is the best for society, country, yourself etc. Now decide to believe, with all your heart, that the opposite end of the political spectrum is the right choice. You can pretend, but my hypothesis is you won't truly believe this. Because your believes and values are shaped by experiences, and you need further experience to change that. Without that experiences, your "changed believe" is just shallow and your subconscious will always override it. You'll suffer because you create tension through inner conflict. You can still get more aware of your thoughts, and reduce ruminating, eliminate some negative thoughts structures, and make unconscious thought patterns more conscious so that they can be changed. The Self, however we want to define it, and talking about it, and getting rid of it or making it more transparent...this is still very tricky for me. One thing that make it tricky for me is the sharp increase I have in trans-personal experiences. For example, I now open a random thread about oranges in this forum. Then I go can call a friend of mine, and suddenly he tells me that he want's to buy an orange plantation So that makes it hard for me to see where the "self" actually starts or ends, how it functions etc. One other thing is context. So when eastern teachings are transferred to the west, I often had this feeling that this idea of "dissolve the self" has also cultural roots. Times were cruel, lots of war, famine, suppression, violence, inequality. So it's beneficial - for rulers and for the poor people - to reduce the self because there was not a lot of opportunity for positive expressions (people's motive) and it's easier to control people that just accept their suffering instead of trying to change stuff (ruler's motive). It's different times now the west created a lot of room for expression of ourselves (although it could be a bit more healthy way of expressing in some areas)

Love the pic

Oh yeah, I agree. Definitely something that is possible, definitely that's is a worthwhile goal. Working towards this and already see some progress. For me it feels like a pendulum, finding the balance between the "don't care/need anything" and "need too much outside validation". Having experienced the far polarities it's now about being aware and competent in regulating the swings towards healthy balance

Great thought. With some things, I fell in the "I don't want" trap but it was rather "telling myself I don't want to because I am scared to fail"

What I see is either the validation from the outside you mention or the "I don't care" or "I don't want this don't need this" stoic attitude. It's kind of tricky because the defense mechanisms to both paths are not easy to see for oneself, quite deep in the subconscious IME.

Amazing, absolutely love the idea!

+1 I said something similar recently, in a conversation with a friend, although in different context. But you said it much better

Lol that made me laugh Simply because I find it very much on point.

+1 Really liked the write up, too. Quite impressive. There's power in choosing and assuming. And I hope your choices pay off for you. IME just not always simple to change believes just like that, it requires certain kind of experiences. Like the paradox> "truth"

Social circle can be great. But would not necessarily say that cold approach takes a lot of effort. You just go where you would go naturally, and then you talk to someone that interests you who's also at the same place. Rough estimate, I would say that of all of women I got somehow involved with I met maybe 1/3 through social circle 1/3 through random encounters (bars, street, train etc) 1/3 through dating apps and similar Even if the shares even out now, the weights vary across different periods of my life. The more open I got, the more random encounters happen. And before someone asks: yes, the 1/3 estimate is based on three women in total that's where I get the accuracy from.

@thierry Re sex = attachement I wasn't really clear before. One the one hand, sex of course does create some attachment, especially when you have sex several times / for an extended period. And yeah sex creates more attachment then going out etc. What I was thinking about is the times I had sex with girls and they (me) did not become attached. It's complex, depends on individuals, connection, lots of context etc. IME it's just not a simple equation as "you have sex with her and then she's attached". But Also: your world, truth and other worlds, truths. Yeah, agree just got to think about placebo effect Re your story : Interesting how things can go:D Re the devil: I think you have to sell your soul to the devil. You can’t maintain perfect integrity, honor, and honesty and still understand male–female relationships. Otherwise, you stay on the surface without ever going down the rabbit hole. Curios about other opinions. Is it unrealistic ideal to have open, honest, cooperative relationships? Male - female, and in general. Or is the next step for human interaction to evolve towards higher integrity?

Just be patient I guess. Wouldn't do anything else than what you do already. Similar interests are a good basis. I often meet friends in new places though other friends. So they came to visit, knew other people and connected me with them. You know someone that knows someone in Stockholm?

My POV: it's all one system. What you talk about correlates close with your body. Mental limits = emotional limits = physical limits = energetic limits. You can seemingly "isolate" one part of the system, and then you limit perception, but it's still one system, or one consciousness. I agree on the enigma. It's like a puzzle, and you need to find the pieces, and then how they fit together.

No warning points. But a knock with a french baguette seems warranted.

While I agree about the content - does anyone actually know someone acting like that? I mean, there is obviously a degree to all of it. Like you said for instance "excessive jealously". Of course there why time where I was jealous, but I also had two open relationships so in my mind I'm not very jealous type.

@Sugarcoat I can't speak for@schizophonia of course. He may (probably) has his own experience different from mine and/or different definition. But when you say about him that it sounds like "talking about yourself and the other person simultaneously" I recognize that in myself. One way to look at - or experiencing the world - is to see the interconnections between everything. Indra's net of jewels is a symbol for that. Mirrored are then my own experiences, traits, believes, views in others. It's this feeling of "oh that sounds very familiar" or even a deep knowing, a recognition of how reality is formed through reflections across humans, who act as a mirror in infinite directions. Or, in others words, it's like talking to (parts of yourself) yourself or your own subconscious. The more open I get, the more aware, the the more clear I can see the reflections, the more reality becomes fluid and dreamlike. At least that's how it is for me

Yes. Same.

I prefer tradition

And a bigger club.

The bold part. That's the crucial part for me. My big awakening this year was how crystal-clear I could see how my own life, experiences is reflected in others. It got so crazy to a point that I had difficulties taking other humans seriously. Sometimes still have. One small example, our exchange here. Similar experiences, similar challenges, similar perspectives. You said you have an older sister, too? 2 years older, yes? Now take a guess how much older my sister is hahahaha Now this happens once, twice,...10 times and it's just like "ahhh OK, interesting". But my life soon consisted to a large degree of synchronicities, reflections, mirroring. Sometimes it was so intense, I people started saying something, and I could sense in their energy was coming next. Because I had the experience before, sometimes hours ago, sometimes days ago. Or vice versa, I would say something and the other would react "What? Really? You experienced this as well?" Some people will think I am crazy, but recently talked about it with a friend that is relatively sensitive to reality herself. She knew immediately was I was talking about, she was relating to it. Because she has the same experience sometimes. But now it get's funny..because OF COURSE she has the same experience, because she's reflecting my experience This transpersonal stuff is interesting but also kinda scary. It's possible to go in circles with this. That's why I always think of this picture I got here the same way you describe. First, self observation. Self awareness. Second, many hours a) contemplating human behavior (alone and with others) and b) interaction, interaction, interaction with others.

Thx man, appreciate it. Please correct if wrong: Thinking about it, and leaving all this phallic & castration terms aside, it comes down to: Go for what you want (your desires) and either achieve it Or accept that you want it, but don't have it now / can't achieve it now and feel the difference between ideal/actual self Or change your desire (if possible) No.3 is dangerous because of defense mechanisms; you might tell yourself you don't want it, but actually you want it without feeling difference ideal/actual self Object of desire is individual (for some it's car, money, freedom, social impact etc etc) My personal experience does not really fit this: Men suppress in my experience just differently. They might go actively for the outside object, but they neglect their inner state. Or they are equally anxious, they are just not in touch with them enough to notice. The materially most successful men I know are deeply unaware of their inner states and extremely disconnected from their body. Same time, I have seen women that are very active, although I have seen the anxiety as well oc. As so often, it's IME much more personality type then gender.

@Schizophonia PP = profile pic? If you mean that, I would not go so far and say "most of the time". Sometimes. This one...yes. I would add - accept it. It easier said then done. Don't try to change it. Live what you fear. My last problem got "solved" when what I feared happened. When it happened, and I was like..."OK it's actually not as bad as I thought. Now that it happened, how can I move on"? But I have to add that the last problem before that, I wasn't able to drop it just like that took quite a while

Now you're weak. Lost your club and wily not as biggy as you say. Uagagagagagahhh

A person (Leo) that is very committed to thinking and meta stuff says that thinking and meta stuff makes you more happy. An professional athlete will say that movement and competition makes you happy. A gardener will tell you that taking care of plants will make you happy. What will a bakerman say? Look at how people behave. Literally, **** what they say, don't trust words alone. We all tell us a lot of BS stories just go avoid cognitive dissonance. Seeing, feeling, being with someone in real life is IMO the only way to verify is a persons words match their actions.

I experienced all sides of the spectrum: I talk about it, people look at me and are like WTF? I don't care Interesting but only interesting for you, not for me It's a drug! A bad, mean drug! Interesting, but I am scared Interesting, tell me more HOLY SHIT TELL ME MORE PLEASE Please tell me more + I want to do it I do it, too! (that's when the fun begins) My experience: The more open you are about it, the more people you meet that are open about it. Don't go on an ideological crusade telling people what they should do, or how great it is. Stick with your own experience and everything is good. Never felt like hiding it. You have A LOT OF POWER AND INFLUENCE on if and how to present it in your life. Other then this: +1 to @Cireeric