theleelajoker

Griev - yes. Sharing - yes. Friends can help - yes. But IMO, be very careful with the 7 stage model. It's a programm you upload in your mind and IT'S NOT REALITY. It's a mental model. It's a cultural conditioning. It might create a mental path that you feel like you should follow while dangerously distancing you from the present moment and present feeling. In my experience, it's best to make yourself free of all concepts.

+1. Fits with my current experience of life Don't have a opinion of whatever you said re Maharsi. Never met this guy in person so I don't know what he experienced, how he acted etc. Projections can easily happen.

Ok I want to clarify my OP: Can you please give concrete examples from your own experience? No meta discussion, no concepts, don't explain the world to me. I gave examples situations above, but you can choose any situation. Useful replies for me are posts along the lines of: I experienced this situation, in this situation it felt like this and that, there were thoughts that came up, I took action in this and this way, the conclusions I drew from that for me personally is this and this... Thanks.

Why makes sense to think in archetypes? Isn't that also living in the mental world?

@Inliytened1 Ok I can follow more or less but it's really abstract. I experienced that repeatedly, why does it seem so hard for people to reply less meta and more concrete even if asked directly?🤷 Doesn't matter if it's illusory because it feels real. And what means embracing it? So if your GF breaks up with you, do you say "thank you" no matter what because you say it's all one and the one always makes the right choices? If you feel it's the wrong choice do you try to convince her to stay together? Do you then say "my feeling that's she's wrong is right because I am the one, too"? When someone tells you in a forum that you're too meta and avoid concrete situations, do you think "wtf does he know?" or do you take that seriously because it's the one talking and you're direction in life is to embrace everything? When you see war, famine, depression etc do you say "that's how the one wants it to be" or do you actively try to change it?

@kavaris yes I do that also more often just expressing instead of thinking about it. Like this thread haha @Inliytened1 everything merging together, yes I can feel that. What duality you mean? Why real and imaginary? Can you elaborate pls? Helpful would be more information on how you handle concrete situations. Did change how you communicate before and after realizing that everything is merged together?

Hm, misunderstanding. I try to be more clear. I see how I made it too complex in last post by trying to be precise. New try: Everybody see me different according to their own experiences, perspective, comparisons Some women specifically liked me because of my feminine side (so they said) Regarding the one example: yes I was more masculine than her previous guy - but I still have more "feminine side" then most of my male friends and expressed that also with her I don't have the feeling I get "attacked" by women or that I have a disadvantage by embracing my feminine side Quite the opposite: more balanced integration of all sides gives me a different vibe that seem to be rewarded by women Maybe one reason for last point is because it also allows them to integrate their male side more? Don't know got to ask women I am speculating here And the women that don't like certain sides of me? Well, they are not for me then they 'll pick sme that suits them better. But it seems that there are enough women where the potential fit is there not despite, but because of my feminine side Bonus info: I have a older sister I guess that helped somehow

Thank for your reply. I think I get what you're pointing at. Someone recently replied to me "I don't want to talk about the past so much because it just strengthens this character idea that I have of me". I think what he meant is the same you describe as identity. Do you actually ask these questions when engaging other people? Or is it sth you are only thinking about?

Generalizing and projecting IMO. White? In my life I got sufficient attention from women and sometimes I asked them why they like me. Sometimes they specifically mentioned my softer, feminine energy. For me, its showing in my way of connecting, being social, listening to my intuition and being vulnerable. Not all women like me, and some might judge as you describe. But more then enough women do appreciate it. And before you draw any conclusions, I don't see myself as feminine guy and neither do my male friends or women I dated. The last woman specifically said she likes me because I am the opposite of her ex who was very feminine and a male friend once said that I am the most masculine friend he has. Do I think that there are more masculine men out there? Definitely! But I like the balance I have and women reward me for showing this side of me while still being different and masculine enough to be attractive for them as sexual partner. Which confirms the points emerald made in the OP - it's about balance and integration...

One girl that I imagined marriage with. Don't like all the legal stuff, and the cultural conditioning BUT a) it's a way to prove my commitment not only with words but some action b) it's creates a bit more stable base in times of crisis (U might think 1 day about breaking up and 3 days about getting a divorce and c) it has a certain romantic flavor for me d) I imagine the event as pretty cool Friends, family, music, fun, dance, etc

Yes, gone through similar process...more then once. 3 Things I want to emphasize First thing I want to say: simply sucks. Sucks a lot and it hurts. Second : it will pass. At least, I did every Time for me. Sometimes faster, some times slower Third: Very good chance that next relationship will be even better:) What helped me after last breakup was to meet other women (good talk, cuddling and sex helps to process the break-up) and while doing so being as honest as possible with then. Other people might tell you that it's unsexy or unattractive but at certain points I told the girls more or less direct that I recently had a breakup or that I am not over my ex. They appreciated the honesty and we still had good times as I focused on the beauty (not talking about looks) of the women right in front of me. Honest interest to get to know them. Other then that: take time, allows your feelings, don't rush.

Regarding OP: To know what works (and what is more or less certain), you need data. Best data comes from action. You don't know what action to take right now? No problem. Take no action and collect the data that arises from non-action. Observe this as closely as possible. What happens within your body? Your mind? Your surroundings? My current POV born out of experience is that there is no final answer to certain metaphysical question. It's just continues infinitely. Some concepts, ideas etc help but their purpose is IMO to help you to act not to understand.

Agree. And did you ever notice how similar the mind -in particular thinking - and AI is? Collecting information, attributing probabilities, connecting associations, making predictions...and a lot of mistakes (hallucinations)

Personally I am not involved. But maybe Temple Step project is sth for you

Great question. Maybe it's not totally exclusive and freedom and a good life can co-exist and promote each other? At least I hope so. Other than that, I feel similar to what @Someone here wrote. So many choices I took for whatever reason that take me on a path of a rather mundane life. And it's not really bad or good. People with more status, money or power don't seem to have less problems while having similar happiness and moments of joy. Same same but different

Enjoyed reading your report. I have read that others point towards childhood trauma, abandonment etc. as (partly) explanation for your experience. Might be that this is the case. Might be that this is not the whole story. Honestly, don't know. I have experienced that the deeper I go, the more the boundaries between personal experiences, family experience, cultural and collective human experiences blurr. I had some similar themes about the dark sites popping up in my life, whatever that means. Trapped in something alone forever, being used by an external force for sth else. Netflix is full of stuff like that (3 body problem, black mirror, the movie passenger, truman show etc) Whatever is going on, take care of yourself.

OK I am with you conceptually. You have an example (or several) for that? As concrete as possible, best from your own experience. How did you recognize this fallacy of self help? What situation and with whom? How did you recognize the roots of your fear? What made it difficult? How did you manage to open up? It would help me and maybe others could get a better access to what your saying, too. Regarding this quote: This is quite funny. Three days ago, I had a LSD trip where I had the realization (at least I believe so) how everything is just reflection over reflection, and projections from me (or better, through me) on others (he is like that, she is acting like this because of that etc). I could almost feel how "me" and "others" are in a mirror cabinet. I decided that my next trip would be together with someone, because the idea is: In this altered state, we could interact differently and see what's behind all this self-referential loops and reflections. I was and still am really motivated to break this cycle. When I read the text above, the memory of this trip and this very moment came up. So, it's an interesting synchronicity. And similar as you describe "there is no manual" I have been recently discussing spiritual material and instructions that others put me in touch with. And my reaction was "best instruction is a empty sheet of paper", just like you say "there is no instruction manual" So, now I am even more interested in practical examples if you're open to share : )

Hmmmm...don't know all of Teal's followers. Also don't really know her. Seen a few videos, read some stuff. My impression front these sources is that she mixes genuine insight and valuable information with personal agenda an narcissistic tendencies . But that's a superficial and far off view with little information...

OK, now that you are conscious of that - what's next? My conclusion after my realization of oneness: Do what feels authentic for me as best as I can. Play the role I have been giving. Short: live life.

+1 Doesn't really matter if she's sad, happy, having her period, vulnerable, angry, full of bliss etc...as long as it's authentic and she just expresses without the intention to manipulate I do respond to that and feel more connection. One time my ex-gf had such a shitty day that she barely want to talk to anyone. She felt like she's a burden for others in this mood. I convinced her to at least sent me a short video message. And seeing her expressing herself I felt like immediately going to see her. Not to change her mood or sth, just to be present with her.

@integral Stage 2 you refer to...? Freud? But that's more for kids so I don't know And how you get to this conclusion? Not saying that is not the case, simply interested in your reasoning. I remember previous comments from you that were helpful in this area.

Awesome mix of perspectives and experiences in this thread! I have myriad of situations with women that align with what has been said. With almost every post, I could relate to a ONS, affair, FWB, relationship etc etc having a concrete person and behavior in mind. The girl that withdraws sex to see if she is more then just a fuck-buddy for you ("gun to your head" style) The girl that desperately wants to get fucked but is not honest enough to herself to just say that (double binds can make a man crazy) The moments when I made it too fast and too much about sex and then I ruined it The drama when I know that No 2 is valid but I still ended up in No 3 The dates where I did not even know if I wanted sex with her and then she's like "you're making me so horny" (I did NOTHING ) The times I experienced that some innocent cuddling is the best foreplay The times when I made it honestly and directly about sex pretty fast and the girl was happy about my clarity The times when the woman made it honestly and directly about sex pretty fast and I was happy about her clarity The problem of getting attached (sometimes me, sometimes her) by just repeatedly sleeping with someone. Effect is much stronger if you don't use condoms (only if relationship + after tests + other birth control) The simple fact that women sometimes love to be seen as a sexual object as it turns them on The simple fact that women hate to be seen as a sexual object because it limits everything else they are The whole problem of sending mixed signals and wrong interpretations: Me, her, both of us. So what's my conclusion re the OP's question? I don't know. Is it even possible to solve this puzzle? Recently watched "The War of the Roses" and one of my ideas from that movie was that no matter what men and women do, it's bound to end in drama So do what you feel like, express it honestly and as authentically as possible. And then let us know what happened

I my personal (sex) experience, I can not remember one woman that did not like this dominant energy. They all liked the idea of being used, of the man being dominant, sometimes calling me out to "use them" or to "fuck them like a ****" and so on. And I happily did, same as I like it when a woman rides me well and uses me for a while : ) A woman once told me "every woman likes controlled aggression". It's all a matter of degree. Sometimes I had to stop myself because I felt eg the girl wanted me to choke her harder but I felt resistance bc I feared it might hurt her. Slippery slope IMO. With one ex-gf, at the beginning I refused to have hard submissive sex with her bc I had the impression that she experienced some (emotional or physical) violence. But she knew how to push my buttons and after a while I was so dominant and aggressive with her that I sometimes felt it was too much. For her it was never too much, she never complained, quite the opposite. Downside: I had the feeling she needs the aggression to feel herself and is not able to feel her body without these extreme. I tried - as best as I could - to experience with her the whole spectrum of sex from "gently making love" to "I use you like a little ****" but it was very hard to open her up for the "gently making love" type of sex. Maybe I was not able to be gentle enough, maybe I needed the hard sex myself, who knows? Today I think 1) it's part of our animal nature that's typically suppressed like @Lise said and 2) I think it can too much and maybe points to some past experiences that keeps people from really feeling their body

What does it mean then for you? I certainly can resonate with "you're just here to create and live life" and the feeling of empty canvas an running away. Been there. Not saying that this is "awakening", we could already discuss what the concept means. But that's not my intention. Simply curios what "awakening" means for you and if it's not about creating life, what is it about in your opinion?

Resonates. "Can't control vibration because you are vibration" "Being both cause and effect" "energetic structure can change itself pushed by the vibration that we call suffering, and no one will ever be able to tell you how" Re last point: you see any other way than suffering? I assume the logic behind your statement is that only when the structure allows to feel "that is not good for me" it sets in a process to correct the current state?