mr_engineer

How do they distinguish between 'silent confidence' and 'meekness'/'weakness'? And does this differ based on the individual woman?

What is the conditioning that you're talking about? This is an original insight. It's not conditioning, I can assure you that!!

Here it is - there is a lot of toxic masculine conditioning that happens to boys at home from their daddies, in the locker-room, through the culture, through porn, etc. This is something that is genuinely shameful for men and we can't show this to women. So, we have to 'play' them. Working this stuff out has been what I have found to be the ultimate long-term solution to lack of confidence.

They do care about women. They just come across like they don't give a fuck, because they don't have a problem being loud, obnoxious and brash, 'being themselves'. In fact, they're so out of touch with their feelings that 'I don't care about women' is a massive cope for a lot of them.

What's shameful about it, is objectification and narcissism. You can't 'just be yourself' and outright show that to women, cuz they won't sign up for that. Yes. And, you don't know what you need to do to make her like you, cuz you have never had positive role-models. Only negative role-models, that women are very quick to shit on. Someone who's confident doesn't 'stop worrying about what to do to make her happy' because 'it doesn't matter, just be yourself'. They stop worrying about it, because they know what to do to make her happy!

I don't know why you keep assuming that I don't talk to girls. They never tell you what it means! It's for us to decipher.

What does it mean, then?

@King Merk I'm talking about what the traditional advice of 'be yourself' actually means. Do they love you because you're an introvert, or despite you being an introvert? Is it an advantage or a disadvantage?

Improve your validation-game. If you want someone this hot this bad, you have the potential to validate them. You just have to find someone who has that kind of body and who needs validation and you gotta give it to them. This is easier said than done. I'm just giving you a clue. HTH!

@7thLetter Integrate Stage Red.

Cheating is considered 'okay' because it's not a crime. It's not as bad as physically hitting someone, for example.

You should've run the moment you saw them giving you bad looks. The self-justification will usually run you deeper into the ground. And it'll be harder to recover from that, socially. Most women are neurotic about harassers. Especially if they themselves are codependent and socially anxious. You shouldn't approach someone who's socially anxious. I know, there are those people who say that 'They'll thank you if you talk to them'. But, mostly, they're alone cuz they want to be alone. And that's what you got told by the girl who shouted at you, basically. This is why I don't do pick-up, quite honestly. Cuz of the worst-case scenarios. I'd rather go to environments where connecting with each other is more socially acceptable.

The guy is a troll who thrives on attention.

Pick-up cannot be used as a way to find love. And here's why. Most women are conditioned with an idea of 'love' by the movies, by rom-coms. They're looking for 'love' in that form. And, pick-up is the art/science of manipulating that to get laid. Even if you marry someone through this dating-strategy, chances are very low that this person will actually love or care about you. Because their idea of 'love' comes from movies. It's not actual love! And you will be stuck trying to continuously manipulate their perception of you, just to continue getting laid with them. Is this a relationship you want? Where you cannot relax with them, you're on your toes all the time?! The 'companionship' will also be fake, by the way. And, on top of that, you will have to meet their exorbitantly high expectations that fit the definition of 'love'. Cuz the reality is that most of the heroes in rom-coms are rich narcissistic guys who the female protagonists are able to 'change', by playing some sort of jealousy-game or something. This is why we have more single guys than ever now, cuz they can't meet these expectations. So, what do you do to find love? You seek out women who are also doing some shadow-work and shedding some conditioning, where they're seeing through the illusion of 'love' that they're conditioned with. And they have an experience of actual love through enlightenment-experiences or something. And they are in the actual practice of love! And, if you really want to do pick-up, do it only if you're surrounded by unconscious women and you're just horny. It's not a reliable dating-strategy and you will have to progress past it to do genuine dating.

@Globalcollective You can have amazing relationships through pick-up. I'm talking about love, specifically. There can be amazing transactional relationships that you can have through pick-up! One thing that's always turned me off from pick-up is that they never use the word 'love'. It's always demonized, in the context of 'Oneitis' or something. In fact, they don't believe in the existence of love! I have found better ways of doing this, to be honest. Pick-up involves too much bullshit-talk, you can't really get straight to the point. And, I have escaped 'having to do pick-up'. I find that to be a limiting-belief, quite honestly. You can directly connect with her and get laid that way. But, pick-up is too fixated on the 'hottest women' for that. I see another way of doing this and what I'm saying is 'Hey everyone, you don't have to use all of these manipulative techniques to get laid. I understand why you feel the need to do that, cuz you're dealing with unconscious women. But, here's another option, where the women are conscious and they will directly connect with you. It's simpler!'

I don't know if you read my OP. I said that I've seen what works to hook women. That's based on an experience-base of approaching. I'm not saying this as someone who failed to make it work to get laid. I'm saying this as someone who did see how I'm going to get laid using this way and I said 'no' to it. Cuz it doesn't align with my values. Every objection you hear to pick-up isn't from some loser who isn't approaching! The thing is that it is impossible to keep perfect integrity in the face of women who have no trust in you because you're a player and who have impossibly high expectations, which is what the shit-tests communicate. At some point, you gotta break your integrity to get laid.

@Scholar The reason I'm talking to Leo about this is that I have a lot of respect for him as a man. He has a genuinely deep understanding of enlightenment, consciousness, God, love, etc. And, to be very honest, he is one of the few men who understands spirituality and who is talking about a concrete solution to the issue of getting laid. If I talk to some other PUA, they'll throw their own rationalizations of what 'love' is and what 'spirituality' is. That'll be zen-devilry. I don't expect any better from them, to be honest. I can be this honest here cuz this place shows a relatively low tolerance for toxic masculinity and has a certain degree of emphasis on the ethics of getting laid. I'm trying to add to the discussion of ethics, by adding the topic of ethics of finding love to it. Now, if pick-up ends up eating its own tail as a result of it, I gotta talk about it here! Cuz I have nowhere else to talk about it. And this is where you discuss strange-loops.

What I'm hearing is 'you have to be an asshole to prove to her how strong you are. And that's going to be the foundation of your relationship, not love'. That is what I have seen to be the case, in fact, in pick-up. The shit-tests force you to turn into an asshole. Cuz they're fundamentally divisive. And you gotta pick between one bad option and another. I don't even know how you pass those and keep your integrity, to be honest. And, being a provider prevents the shit from hitting the fan! I mean, do they not know what goes into giving masculine containment?!

What happens when your girlfriend that you attract through this process, does some shadow-work, sheds some conditioning from movies, learns what 'love' really is and stops getting attracted in your manipulative ways? You need a different way of doing this than going to bars and clubs. Says who? PUAs?! Your friends? Women at bars and clubs? Feminists? Or your parents? Where does this distinction between 'natural' and 'unnatural' come from? Another big problem with it is that it conditions you to believe that 'this is wrong with you, this is what you have to improve, therefore, do as we say. Take our 1000-approach bootcamp'. It's a grift, from what I can tell. I mean, I don't see any other reason for something as silly as pick-up to work. It's bullshit social games. That has nothing to do with actual love. What practice?! Other animals don't have to practice this. Even our ancestors didn't. Where did this need to 'practice social-skills' or something even come from?!

@Vrubel 1000 approaches is a lot of work, a big commitment. It is natural for someone being told to do that, to ask 'What's the material incentive? Why will I be doing so much work?' It's like another full-time job, practically speaking.

Also, it makes it so women create this divisive sperm-war between the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys'. And then, they expect the 'good guys' to protect them from the 'bad guys'. And, the only actual difference between who 'you' are, in their minds, is how you present yourself. What clothes you wear, what you say you believe. And, of course, this illusion falls apart six months into the relationship. The wires have gotten so crossed that they've turned 'being nice' into a bad thing! And then, you have PUAs saying 'Whether she sees you as a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy' is a matter of having good game or bad game'. If you want love, don't stand for this division. Stand for unity! No more jealousy-games, no more flexing your lay-count. I will even go as far as to say that this is the real reason for incel-shootings, not the fact that they're not getting laid in and of itself. If we didn't lionize guys with high lay-counts (which is just a number, anyways), incels wouldn't feel overwhelmed with the pressure to keep up. They would take it easier, and their game would improve just like that. But, well. If you want to win the sperm-war, you're a part of the problem of incel-shootings.

Another point about this - when you wear a leather-jacket, you behave a certain 'confident' way at the club and attract female attention this way and say that they see this as 'survival-value', this speaks to their conditioning from the movies. In the movies, the hero has this confident body-posture and he wears leather-jackets and he's socially confident. And, he's able to fight off the bad guys. And 'rescues her' from them. This conditioning from movies creates this association in women's minds. And, this is what pick-up caters to. As I said in my OP. And this is what cannot translate to actual love. It can resemble 'love' in movie-terms, cuz both of you are playing that character. But, it can't be actual love. Cuz it's based on bullshit, it's not real. Same goes for 'taming a player'. Comes from movies. Real life doesn't work like that! Then, they get disillusioned and ask 'Where are all the good men?!'

Right now, I'm focused on my Life-Purpose. I am using that as a way to shape my authentic personality right now. It aligns with who I am as a man and who I am sexually. Then, when I seriously get to contributing value to the world, I will attract attention to me. Then, when I get female attention, I will be able to convert that. Because my authentic personality will align with the way I survive, the way I make money. I tried this last time. It would've worked, except that I was wrong about my Life-Purpose. This led to a big mental-health crisis for me. I had to expand my understanding of what my Purpose is. And stop dating for a while. Which girls? Talk about what? To what end? Elaborate. There are tons of players who have insecurities about women, mental-health problems, can't keep a relationship. This is what they did. That's my counter-example. And, through my method, through going for people whose definition of 'love' I agree with, I was able to find people who I could genuinely connect and grow with. Now, I haven't gotten laid this way yet, but I can totally see myself getting laid. And, they themselves are in relationships and I see how they work, what it takes to make them work. I learn from their mistakes too.

@DefinitelyNotARobot I understand that some hopes and dreams are getting threatened or crushed right now. I am presenting an alternative, in the New-Age spiritual community. Those women are really intuitive and they understand what 'love' really is. They can 'love'! You just can't get away with manipulating them. Cuz they do shadow-work and they work on their conditioning. So, I want this to serve as a warning to PUAs, about the dangers of this modus operandi of getting laid. And, as far as what they want, they are loud and clear about it. No confusion. Imagine that, for a moment!

I wanted to see whether this forum knew this about pick-up or not. And what your objections would be. And, do keep in mind that pick-up is probably the most mainstream male dating-strategy right now. Especially for young guys. Older men have more money and status that they can leverage. So, in my opinion, it's a pretty important discussion. I needed to know whether I should do this seriously or not and if I do, what am I getting myself into.