mr_engineer

Whenever someone says 'love yourself', a lot of times, it's because they don't want to love you! So, I tend to want to next them. That's the most self-loving thing I can do! But, they don't understand the ramifications of 'self-love'. It's just theory that they're conditioned with.

It means, be loud and obnoxious. Cuz if you're quiet/introverted, women see that as 'meek'/'weak'.

That's it?! Is that all 'self-love' takes?! Okay, that's easy, I can do that. That's the popular image of 'self-love' right now. Doesn't have much to do with what 'love' actually means, it doesn't mean 'approval', but whatever. In essence, they're saying, hold a positive frame. I mean, that's kinda shallow. And it's easy to trick them by being inauthentic using an image of 'authenticity'. I don't know why they think that being 'self-loving' and 'trying to get women's approval' are mutually exclusive. That's the image right now, I guess. I think they're projecting their tendency to chase men's approval and this gets in the way of their self-love. That's a possibility.

Something I find very interesting here is that whenever I say something that you disagree with, your rationalization is 'you don't have enough experience with women. Go talk to women and you'll see that I'm right'. I could do the same thing! I could say that 'you don't know what I'm talking about cuz you don't have experience with women'. Just throwing it out there. It's disrespectful. It's like saying 'you can't know what a woman is, if you're not a biologist' or something absurd like that. This is not an issue of 'growing bitter'. This is an issue of vetting. Here's the thing, though - you can. I can be confident and choose to behave however I want!! But, their so-called 'sixth-sense' would not pick up on it. And I'd have to get manipulative now to show them how 'confident' I am.

Looks like I'm going to have to spill the beans. Women get an idea of what a 'competent man' is, from their fathers. And this is where they get their subconscious definition of 'strength'. And, if their fathers were faking 'confidence', which a lot of them are, this fucks up their internal compass. And, they hold onto it, cuz daddy! In theory, you're right. In practice, some of them can't smell confidence. They can smell what they associate with confidence. Which is money, status, a certain body-posture, a certain way of walking, a certain way of talking, etc. That's how they do it. If we're talking about pure biological instinct. Now, some women are smart and they can see through fake confidence. Some can't. We take what women offer to us. If women weren't competing against each other to be hotter, trust me, we wouldn't even have an idea of a 'hot woman'. They exist because they want to exist!

@petar8p Well, confidence that has to be proven by their reactions isn't really confidence now, is it?! I'm talking about their problematic interpretations of my behavior and what they make it mean about 'confidence'. Confidence, is a feeling-state. And that has nothing to do with my choice to act a certain way!

Is it evolved intuition? Or conditioning? And if it is conditioning, how do you break it without rational thought?

That is pretty scary. That it's just a 'biological radar', that no thought gets put into it from their side. I've had women mistake my silent confidence for meekness/weakness. And trust me, when that happens, you lose all trust for their biological instincts. Kinda like someone who gets molested loses trust for other people's biological instincts! Seriously, man. We have lost trust for each other's opinions so much that PUAs say 'just don't listen to women on dating'.

How do they distinguish between 'silent confidence' and 'meekness'/'weakness'? And does this differ based on the individual woman?

What is the conditioning that you're talking about? This is an original insight. It's not conditioning, I can assure you that!!

Here it is - there is a lot of toxic masculine conditioning that happens to boys at home from their daddies, in the locker-room, through the culture, through porn, etc. This is something that is genuinely shameful for men and we can't show this to women. So, we have to 'play' them. Working this stuff out has been what I have found to be the ultimate long-term solution to lack of confidence.

They do care about women. They just come across like they don't give a fuck, because they don't have a problem being loud, obnoxious and brash, 'being themselves'. In fact, they're so out of touch with their feelings that 'I don't care about women' is a massive cope for a lot of them.

What's shameful about it, is objectification and narcissism. You can't 'just be yourself' and outright show that to women, cuz they won't sign up for that. Yes. And, you don't know what you need to do to make her like you, cuz you have never had positive role-models. Only negative role-models, that women are very quick to shit on. Someone who's confident doesn't 'stop worrying about what to do to make her happy' because 'it doesn't matter, just be yourself'. They stop worrying about it, because they know what to do to make her happy!

I don't know why you keep assuming that I don't talk to girls. They never tell you what it means! It's for us to decipher.

What does it mean, then?

@King Merk I'm talking about what the traditional advice of 'be yourself' actually means. Do they love you because you're an introvert, or despite you being an introvert? Is it an advantage or a disadvantage?

Improve your validation-game. If you want someone this hot this bad, you have the potential to validate them. You just have to find someone who has that kind of body and who needs validation and you gotta give it to them. This is easier said than done. I'm just giving you a clue. HTH!

@7thLetter Integrate Stage Red.

Cheating is considered 'okay' because it's not a crime. It's not as bad as physically hitting someone, for example.

You should've run the moment you saw them giving you bad looks. The self-justification will usually run you deeper into the ground. And it'll be harder to recover from that, socially. Most women are neurotic about harassers. Especially if they themselves are codependent and socially anxious. You shouldn't approach someone who's socially anxious. I know, there are those people who say that 'They'll thank you if you talk to them'. But, mostly, they're alone cuz they want to be alone. And that's what you got told by the girl who shouted at you, basically. This is why I don't do pick-up, quite honestly. Cuz of the worst-case scenarios. I'd rather go to environments where connecting with each other is more socially acceptable.

The guy is a troll who thrives on attention.

Pick-up cannot be used as a way to find love. And here's why. Most women are conditioned with an idea of 'love' by the movies, by rom-coms. They're looking for 'love' in that form. And, pick-up is the art/science of manipulating that to get laid. Even if you marry someone through this dating-strategy, chances are very low that this person will actually love or care about you. Because their idea of 'love' comes from movies. It's not actual love! And you will be stuck trying to continuously manipulate their perception of you, just to continue getting laid with them. Is this a relationship you want? Where you cannot relax with them, you're on your toes all the time?! The 'companionship' will also be fake, by the way. And, on top of that, you will have to meet their exorbitantly high expectations that fit the definition of 'love'. Cuz the reality is that most of the heroes in rom-coms are rich narcissistic guys who the female protagonists are able to 'change', by playing some sort of jealousy-game or something. This is why we have more single guys than ever now, cuz they can't meet these expectations. So, what do you do to find love? You seek out women who are also doing some shadow-work and shedding some conditioning, where they're seeing through the illusion of 'love' that they're conditioned with. And they have an experience of actual love through enlightenment-experiences or something. And they are in the actual practice of love! And, if you really want to do pick-up, do it only if you're surrounded by unconscious women and you're just horny. It's not a reliable dating-strategy and you will have to progress past it to do genuine dating.

@Globalcollective You can have amazing relationships through pick-up. I'm talking about love, specifically. There can be amazing transactional relationships that you can have through pick-up! One thing that's always turned me off from pick-up is that they never use the word 'love'. It's always demonized, in the context of 'Oneitis' or something. In fact, they don't believe in the existence of love! I have found better ways of doing this, to be honest. Pick-up involves too much bullshit-talk, you can't really get straight to the point. And, I have escaped 'having to do pick-up'. I find that to be a limiting-belief, quite honestly. You can directly connect with her and get laid that way. But, pick-up is too fixated on the 'hottest women' for that. I see another way of doing this and what I'm saying is 'Hey everyone, you don't have to use all of these manipulative techniques to get laid. I understand why you feel the need to do that, cuz you're dealing with unconscious women. But, here's another option, where the women are conscious and they will directly connect with you. It's simpler!'

I don't know if you read my OP. I said that I've seen what works to hook women. That's based on an experience-base of approaching. I'm not saying this as someone who failed to make it work to get laid. I'm saying this as someone who did see how I'm going to get laid using this way and I said 'no' to it. Cuz it doesn't align with my values. Every objection you hear to pick-up isn't from some loser who isn't approaching! The thing is that it is impossible to keep perfect integrity in the face of women who have no trust in you because you're a player and who have impossibly high expectations, which is what the shit-tests communicate. At some point, you gotta break your integrity to get laid.

@Scholar The reason I'm talking to Leo about this is that I have a lot of respect for him as a man. He has a genuinely deep understanding of enlightenment, consciousness, God, love, etc. And, to be very honest, he is one of the few men who understands spirituality and who is talking about a concrete solution to the issue of getting laid. If I talk to some other PUA, they'll throw their own rationalizations of what 'love' is and what 'spirituality' is. That'll be zen-devilry. I don't expect any better from them, to be honest. I can be this honest here cuz this place shows a relatively low tolerance for toxic masculinity and has a certain degree of emphasis on the ethics of getting laid. I'm trying to add to the discussion of ethics, by adding the topic of ethics of finding love to it. Now, if pick-up ends up eating its own tail as a result of it, I gotta talk about it here! Cuz I have nowhere else to talk about it. And this is where you discuss strange-loops.