mr_engineer

This is so stupid. Next thing you know, the Modi govt is going to start talking to them in Hindi.

If Life-Purpose didn't cater to people with low ambition, there would be no bus-drivers and janitors in the ideal world, in which everyone's following their passion.

Here's the thing, though - you will attract men of all attachment-styles if you're a hot woman. If you're a 6 and below, though, men with secure attachment-styles won't go for you because you have self-worth issues. But, hot women get more opportunities to fix the attachment-style, because they have higher self-worth! It's worth the investment of time and energy from the man's perspective.

Why would a hot woman put up with a jerk? She has more options. She can see through their BS a lot more easily, because she's hot and she knows it, i.e. she has a high self-worth.

This is true for women who are 6s and below. 8s, 9s and 10s have standards. They want a guy with a good personality. It is true that women who are 6s and below, have an idea of 'confidence'/'masculinity' that's dysfunctional and untrue. They have self-worth issues. They also have anxious attachment-style, which is why what you described would work to get them. Some of them have unrealistic expectations, because they know that they're above average, so they deserve the best from men. And the others just hate men. Mistreating them works, because they have low self-worth and because it validates their concept of how 'good' they are in comparison.

Are you nuts?! Who spends 10k to learn to go talk to people?! That's a really crappy deal. If you'd spent that on dating-apps, you would've gotten more success. No, seriously, look around at your married friends and ask them how much they've spent to learn pick-up. You got scammed. Matchmakers take less than that to set you up on dates! About pick-up - the only reason to do it is to learn the basics of overcoming approach-anxiety, state and frame. Past that, it's not worth it. The highest-quality women you can get into workable relationships with through pick-up are 8s. 9s and 10s are very cut-throat. They look at a PUA/player in his 20s and think 'loser'. If you're 30+, maybe you can get 9s and 10s through pick-up. I'm not sure. (And I'm talking about workable relationships, not situationships). A much better use of your money is to go to a dance-class. Maybe salsa, maybe bachata, maybe tango. Whatever you're into. Are you comfortable dancing with women?! If not, what will you do on a dance-floor?! What the eff was your goal, even, when you throw your money at scammy, sketchy PUAs?!

And what is the point of partying/going to bars/clubs? Is it to make friends? Is it to 'have fun'? Is it to meet women? What is the point of it? A 'party' in today's world, is a marketplace. Where people show off how 'cool'/'fun' they are. They will do whatever it takes to lower inhibitions and 'put their best foot forward', like taking drugs/alcohol. The goal is to be 'cool'/'social'/'charismatic' and when you do that, you gain popularity/'status'. This is why bar-fights happen. Cuz inhibitions are lowered and when your so-called 'status' is on the line, you will get aggressive to protect it. Another definition of a 'party' in today's world, is that it is a hub of instant-gratification activities. Where the point of going there is not to make friends (most people only leave the party with the friends they went in with), it is to indulge in the instant-gratification activities like loud music, drugs, alcohol, the sight of hot women as eye-candy and casual sex. Can you form connections in parties, which are the most popular so-called 'social environments' in Western-style civilizations? Absolutely fucking not. People are there to tune out the problems of their lives and drown out their internal problems, because of which there is little to no authenticity in those environments. Even though on the surface people are having fun, there is often an inexplicable tension in the environment. Because people are using substances to repress their internal issues. And finally, about the women. A lot of them have issues that they're tuning out too! Cuz they're there, getting drunk and putting themselves out there to be sexually objectified, to 'lower inhibitions'. We're talking about boundary-issues, codependency, indulgence in instant-gratification promiscuity showing a lack of discipline etc. And, the worst part about this is that there is no connection with someone who is inebriated. It's just not going to happen. Connection happens in the fully sober, waking state. Not when you're dancing even after the music stops. This is the height of life in the modern world. Which is incredibly sad. Because it weakens people. This is what today's young people are obsessing over. It is a degradation of the values that our societies have been built on, it is degeneracy and decadence. (I'm not saying that it's morally wrong for you personally to party if you find it fun, but from a macro-perspective, if this is the most popular social-environment of your culture, that's pretty fucked) Too many people don't know what they're missing out on, what life could be like without these vices, in which you actually get to connect with each other when you're sober. If today's youth considers the state of being high and intoxicated and 'getting fucked up' as the 'height of life', if they're unhappy with their lives when they're sober and they think that this is the solution, does this bode well for the future?

@universe The serious point that I'm making is that we need to stop pussy-footing around this collective issue of loneliness and we need to become more sophisticated in our understanding of it and what the real solutions are, what doesn't work vs what actually works. It becomes particularly hopeless for successful people who believe that 'partying is the height of life'. When they become disillusioned with it, they kill themselves. Because what they experience is loneliness in a room full of people 'having fun' with them. This is not an accident. This is not a bug of the party-environment, it's a feature. This is literally what the people there are coping with. I believe that we must question this notion that 'partying is the height of life'. Because if we find alternative ways to connect with people, a lot of money that goes into the extravagance of partying will get saved. And, life in the West will become a lot less competitive. Honestly, the West has been rich enough for around 20-30 years for the rat-race to just stop. People are still running, though, because they believe this lie. Entire economic reforms are on hold because of this lie. Most of Wall-street believes this lie, most of the shit they do is for this reason. Most corrupt CEOs and presidents believe this lie. Inflation in the West will greatly reduce if not completely stop if people stop believing this lie. Entire economies can get saved if people stop believing this lie. A lot of people's status-obsession stems from here. Whether they're rich, poor or middle-class. But, if they see through this, they will stop caring about status and they will just follow their passion and find their Life-Purpose. The entire world will see a new level of evolution.

Before then, I'd been to bars and clubs, just because it was the most popular social environment. I didn't know what to do there, I felt lonely there, so I came back. Then, when I went with friends, I saw what they do and I was like 'screw this, it's not worth it'. And besides this, I never really understood the fundamental principle behind partying as a way to connect with people. Until, I heard someone say 'the people you meet in parties are not your friends, you just go there to gain popularity, offline and online (Insta-stories and shit)'. Then, it made sense why people do it and what the cultural blindspot is! There are a lot of healthier ways of meeting people, like going to the gym, art-classes, sports-clubs. In fact, there are dedicated SD Green environments in which they do spiritual rituals and stuff and you can connect much better with people there.

This thread is not about me or my 'issues with connecting with and meeting people'. I have other ways of doing that. My point is that partying is by far the worst way to meet and connect with people. Fine, 'if one person on the planet made connections at a party, it should be possible for anyone'. But, it's one thing for it to be possible, and it's another thing for it to be probable. The probability is very low, because of the factors I listed in the OP. And, if that's the most popular type of social environment in upscale areas of the world. we're in trouble. Looking at this trend on a macro-level should scare you. If you're defending parties as a way to meet people, that comes across as 'fearful and lacking' to me, actually. There are much better ways, like going to art-classes, going to dance-classes, going to music-classes. People aren't numbing themselves with substances and they're exploring their creativity in these environments.

@Sidra khan @Princess Arabia Looks like I lost this 'status-game'. No worries. I've got other plans.

Once, when I was talking about my mental-health issues/loneliness, my friends said 'let's go party!' and dragged me into a club. The music was really loud, pretty much everyone was inebriated and dancing to the loud music, in the zone. No scope to talk to anyone. One of my friends got drunk and passed out. She was puking a lot. The rest of us were left taking care of her. Some of us were being responsible with it, some not so responsible. She was disoriented and one guy was messing with her head on purpose, taking advantage of the fact that she was disoriented. It made me lose respect for him for the rest of my life. My opinion of him is 'he's the biggest scumbag I've ever met'. We were 'bar-hopping', so to speak. So, we went to another club. One of my friends had a wing with a lot of contacts in these places. He was one of the 'big and strong alpha-males' there. There were drugs going on in the next club. And, there were dealers there. Shady characters. Two guys got into a fight over drug-money. And, my friend's wing went in there to pacify the situation and resolve it. This happened in the US. 1 year into living there. And, I'd already observed that most of American society revolves around materialistic pleasure. And that partying was supposed to be the 'height of life' there. And, when I saw this, I was like 'Oh man. The West is in trouble, if this is what the people here are living for'.

When a drunk man and a drunk woman have sex, who has more to lose? The woman, of course. So, the issue here is of women's safety. When this is the situation, you can complain all you want about the lack of sexual-discipline of drunk men (what an expectation to have from a drunk man lol), but nothing is going to get done about this if women don't take responsibility for their own safety and change something! It's one thing to say that 'In an ideal world, men would be perfect and men would be perfectly held accountable for all wrongdoings' and it's another thing to face the reality that that's not how the world works. Yes, women have more of a responsibility to stay sober so that they can protect themselves. Because women have more to lose in drunk sex. Also, if a feminist said it, take it with a grain of salt. Ancient Rome. https://www.historyhit.com/the-fall-of-the-roman-empire/

My issue isn't with the partying itself, it's with this false belief that it's the height of life. Because it makes it so everyone aspires to live it and we get the never-ending competitive rat-race. When a society believes that a party is the height of life, the danger of that is that the vices that come with partying will weaken and destroy it from within. There are pros and cons to partying and when we idealize it as the height of life, we don't look at the cons.

The reason I'm being logical about this is that if you're not, people come up with problematic rationalizations for partying. Seems benign at first, until you get to a point where partying becomes the only escape from the problems of your life and then those rationalizations will hold you back from quitting the vices that the party-lifestyle imposes on you. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm saying that we need to see the reality of it and that it's not the height of life. That we can do better, collectively. I don't see how the collective moves towards being enlightened if we stay stuck here.

Are you going to give counter-examples to what I've said?

The problem at hand is social confidence at a party. I mean, if it helps your social confidence, why not learn to dance? That's what people are doing there, right?! Why not just get good at it, be the coolest person there and reap the rewards of that?! It's fun when you know how to dance. And it's even more fun when you're better than the others around you! It gives you an advantage in 'coolness'.

Take a dance-class. Just brute-force the solution to this problem. You will be a lot better than the suckers who are 'just flowing with the music' and more socially confident than them. A party is literally a competition for who's the coolest person there. And you do whatever it takes to win this competition. If a dance-class is what it takes, go for it.

I'm looking at it from a biased perspective of 'Can I form connections in a party? If I can't, if we can't, why is it the most popular type of social environment? How does it benefit us as a collective to have it be the most popular type of social environment?' I personally can't help but feel contempt for people who get so drunk they pass out in parties, or people who overdose on drugs in them. A part of me is like 'We all know that you're better than this'. Another part of me sees that this urge to get high to the point of blacking out is a deeper issue of having the urge to self-harm, because they're using partying to cope with the meaninglessness of their lives.

I call BS on this argument that they would make. Because, if this really were who they are, why does it do nothing for their mental-health problems?! Mental-health in more developed parts of the world (I'm not going to name countries, it's happening in upscale areas of most countries) is tanking on the one hand and on the other hand, this is the social reality we're dealing with. The first indication of the fact that you're on the right path with authenticity is that your mind will be peaceful and emotionally you will be fulfilled. I mean, they know that they're going and being sexy in a low-inhibition environment, where drunk guys are going to be drooling over them and some guys with little to no morality are going to be trying to spike their drinks and shit. I want to get on the same page with others about what a 'party' even is. The more of us understand the reality of parties, the more we will come up with new and innovative event-ideas to actually be able to connect with each other and resolve the internal issues instead of coping with them using instant-gratification partying.

You just have to decide that someone is 'your person', to be honest. And the way you do that is you figure out what role they play in your life and when they do a good job, you compliment them! Is there a step of 'see how you feel about the action you plan on taking, whether it's authentic or not to you' in the middle of this process? This is how you do the 'authentic style of pick-up' as a man too. It's the right way to cold-approach and 'learn social-skills' like that cuz it sets you up for authentic relationships in the future. Ah, okay. Maybe not for you personally, but it was a point in your OP for women in general. If you compliment cishet men on something they're good at/capable in, it would be life-changing for them. And, there is no danger of it coming across as sexual. Do this only if it's authentic to you/it genuinely is your love-language. The truth is that women whose love-language is physical-touch spontaneously give hugs without worrying about whether it'll come across as sexual. Women whose love-language is words of affirmation give compliments without worrying about it coming across as sexual! It's a creative process on your side, it's a process of expressing who you are and your authentic truth. If it's not your love-language, I'd highly recommend that you learn more about your motivations behind wanting to do this. Cuz if you don't, you may do more harm than good.

@eos_nyxia The attitude that I'm getting from your post is that it's a chore for you. That you're not really motivated to do this but you're considering it because it would be a nice thing to do for others around you. (You don't sound motivated to do it for women, children and animals either, by the way) Consider the possibility that words of affirmation are not your love-language. And figure out what your love-language is. And express love in that language. This is also the answer to a potential fear that you'd have of 'having to be everything for your husband'. The truth is that if you want to be authentic and loving in an inspired way, you need love-language compatibility with your partner (or even friends, for that matter). If you have that, you will have no issues being loving towards them in the right love-language, it will not feel like a chore and it will not drain you.

Teaching.

I have noticed that when we talk about men's loneliness or emotional-starvation, there is a rhetoric especially from progressive spaces that 'you're acting like a little boy' or 'you need to man up'. I am coining a new term for this response. It's called 'benevloent emasculation'. Benevolent Emasculation - The act of gaslighting a man into believing that he's acting like a little boy when he expresses his very real problems. To all of you doing this behavior, here's my question - why do YOU assume that when a man talks about his problems, he's 'acting like a little boy'?! Where did that come from?! Why are YOU convincing men that they're less mature than they are?! Why are YOU conditioning men into believing that they're 'being little boys'?! Do real men not communicate?! Is that what this boils down to?!