Xonas Pitfall

Why? *smiles*

@Spiral Got it, But what are you pointing to with “experience” here? What are they trying to experience, raw emotion? Her reactivity? Receptivity? Because from what you said earlier, it sounds like women want to experience men as a proxy for safety. But then you also said, “There isn’t much of men to experience. Men want to experience women. There isn’t much in men to experience, but they can influence how women feel in a meaningful way. ”

@Leo Gura Hmm... not universal enough, some have different tastes in their "ahem... preferred areas of indulgence." Understanding may require deeper, Judo-level insight 🤔

How so? Do you mind elaborating on that more? Very interesting.

What do they want to experience? And why don’t women want to experience men? Or do women want to be experienced, “have fun with,” or “played with”? P.S. I don’t know myself; I’m just asking opposing questions to feel it out, haha.

So interesting, when I was on one of my trips, I had an insight like this: Ironically enough, I somehow associate masculinity with ego more than femininity, so I was always wondering if that’s just my ego playing tricks on me. Perhaps both genders just play out their own versions of selfishness and selflessness, but I’d be very curious how you understand what I wrote compared to your experience. Would you say that one of the appeals of the feminine is that they create the “drama (Hole)” or emotional expression that you can partake in, yet without being seen as dramatic or non-stoic yourself? Why do you think you like all the traits you listed? I’d be very curious to understand, since you seem very honest, which I appreciate.

Not necessarily. There are definitely plenty of records of people living happy, long-term monogamous marriages, and even after death, they hold those relationships as meaningful and deeply cherished. So yes, there are definitely people out there like that, if that’s what you truly desire. I suggest reading through happy, non-toxic Reddit threads. The general rule is this: Take ownership of what you can control, and let go of what you can't. Things you can control: Understanding what kind of lifestyle you want (polyamory or monogamy?) Whether you want kids or not What level of attraction do you expect in a partner, and whether you can stay attracted as they naturally age What values, beliefs, and level of personal development your partner should have (e.g., spiral dynamics, philosophical maturity) What kinds of personality traits do you want in a partner: introverted or extroverted, nurturing or independent, playful or serious, etc. Hobbies and passions you’d want to share or support Now, hold yourself accountable too: That ideal partner you wrote down, would they even like you? Are you in the same general bracket of attraction or compatibility? Are you attracted to polyamorous or monogamous people, and would they be attracted to you? Do you hold the same values or spiritual/philosophical outlooks you expect from them? And are you acting in line with those values? Can you hold attraction over time? If you wish for monogamy, what practical, logistical steps are you taking to prevent things like cheating, shiny object syndrome, or uncontrolled lusting? Are you developing emotional maturity, deepening connection regularly, staying honest with yourself and your partner, and avoiding situations that feed temptation? If you wish for polyamory, are you actively filtering for partners who genuinely want? Are you clear about your boundaries, communication expectations, and how jealousy or time-sharing will be handled? Now ask yourself: Are you going to the types of places where you’re more likely to meet someone like that? Or are you spending time in environments that feel completely opposite or shallow? Are you openly communicating the kind of relationship you want, or are you presenting a fake image and trying to slowly manipulate the other person into becoming what you want? Remember, you only need to find one person (if that's what you want.) It's definitely realistic and possible, but you have to put in the effort. And yes, that will require sacrifice. But what in this world doesn’t? People don’t usually complain about not being able to start five businesses at once, because they understand the sacrifice and dedication it takes to make even one successful. ✨😉

This is very honest, yet strange haha - do you mind elaborating on it more?

Hmm... I don't think it's about placing toxic expectations. The point is that for the kind of work they’re trying to do, achieving God consciousness or the highest states of awareness, their current practices just aren’t enough. If you’ve ever done psychedelics, you know those states are on a completely different level. Comparing them to basic meditation sessions doesn’t make sense. If someone wants proper insight, they probably need long, intense retreats that radically alter their state for extended periods. You need to be out of the ego for a while to even start seeing reality from that perspective. Meditating for a couple of hours and then going back to regular life usually isn’t enough, especially if it’s not paired with serious contemplation about reality, nature, and the self. If someone claims to be a monk or a seeker of enlightenment, basic ritualistic meditation isn’t going to cut it. They probably need more advanced breathwork, near-death type intensity, yoga, or psychedelics. Or they need extremely long and focused retreats. The goal is to shut down the ego and the default mode network long enough, then reflect and integrate what was experienced. That process has to repeat until full realization, God, infinity, and solipsistic truth. It’s like trying to get a bodybuilder’s physique without steroids or extreme genetics. Sure, you can get fit, but beyond a certain point, you need serious intervention. The same goes here. If the goal is just to live a peaceful monk lifestyle, that’s fine. But if the goal is to fully understand the nature of reality, something much more hardcore is required for most people. The original critique is basically this: If you actually want to be a real spiritual seeker and pursue pure truth, you need a more hardcore approach. If your goal is just to live a monk-like, more peaceful, grounded life, in tune with nature or the earth, that’s fine. But that’s not the Real purpose of Spirituality; basically, peacocking it. The problem is, a lot of people have never experienced altered states of God-realization. So when they reach shallow or surface-level awareness, it feels so different from their normal life that they think they’ve hit the highest layer of spirituality. But it's not. It just feels distinct enough from the average unconscious way of living. So a lot of the time, they just try to teach those mild states to others, and then the rest of the work is keeping the monastery running and practicing in a more social, cult-like traditional environment, as he said in the original video. The point of that video was to draw the line between real spirituality and fake practice. One path is more concerned with numbing or emptying the mind, kind of like what ketamine does. You turn into an animal that forgets it has a self or ego and operates only on instinct and raw perception (That’s definitely a valuable insight still, don’t get me wrong.) Or you become a sort of mini, hipster-like version that fully feels the environment and the present moment, but doesn’t really contemplate what any of it means. But there’s more to spirituality than just that. Real spirituality includes those elements but also goes beyond them. It pushes toward realizing God-consciousness, deconstructing the ego’s limitations, and questioning how the mind even constructs reality in the first place. It involves breaking down science, politics, culture, and all the human biases and frames we unconsciously operate through. That’s a much fuller vision of what "pure philosophy" or "pure spirituality" should be. It should aim to develop the mind to such a capable and fluid degree that it can see through all self-deception, unravel the illusions, and raise humanity’s awareness, not just shut off the mind and become a calm lotus-sitting animal experiencing the moment.

I'd be very curious about this too...

To be honest, I think a good starting point is just figuring out what you find funny. Do you have your own sense of humor? Do you have friends you genuinely find funny? Why are they funny to you? Do you like dark humor? Wordplay? Awkward, autistic-style humor? Sexually perverted humor? Direct, dry wit? A lot of people get so caught up in trying to seem playful or fun when the whole point is to actually have fun. What makes you laugh? I know it sounds cliché, but if your goal is to find a long-term partner, someone you truly enjoy being around, then ideally, you'd want someone who gets your humor, someone who can make you laugh, and who genuinely laughs with you too. So as a first step, it might help to simply journal: What makes me laugh? Collect memes, jokes, memories, friends, or moments that brought that out in you. Then, the next step is getting comfortable expressing that. Master those two things: Knowing what brings out your humor (This takes both experience and reflection. It’s about knowing yourself, your personal “poke” points that get you into that playful state. For some people, it's dumb old dad jokes. For others, it’s bizarre, abstract humor that barely anyone else understands. The more you collect these experiences (whether it’s through watching comedy, scrolling through memes, hanging out with friends, or just observing what makes you laugh), the more you’ll learn what buttons to press to trigger that playful mode.) Feeling free enough to express it (This part is about being comfortable with being “cringe.” That comfort comes with experience too. One thing that really helps here is recording yourself, literally just talking or playing around, and then watching it back. Most people don’t have a clear internal reference for how they come across when they’re being playful, so they assume they’re awkward or embarrassing. But if you’ve seen yourself enough times and gotten used to how you look and sound, that fear starts to fade. And of course, the more positive responses you get from others when you do express that side of yourself, the easier it becomes to let it out freely. And if you watch yourself back and you do feel like it’s painful, good. Be with that pain and correct your expression.) That’s basically the foundation of being effortlessly playful. So yeah, think back to the last time you were really laughing, like full-on belly laughing or just cracking jokes without thinking. What were you doing? Who were you with? That’s the state you want to channel; it serves as an excellent reference point.

In light of the recent discussions around dating on the forum, I think it could be useful to create a dedicated thread focused purely on sharing personal preferences. To keep things structured and productive, I suggest we clearly separate the two categories! Hookups / Short-Term / Purely Physical Attraction Long-Term / Marriage / Family-Oriented / Stable Relationships I'd also be curious to explore more archetypal or narrative-based "fantasies" - things like Beauty and the Beast, saving the princess/damsel, or other classic dynamics. Maybe each of those could eventually have their own thread, but for now, it could be interesting just to start opening the conversation here. Feel free to include anything that helps express your preferences - images, traits (both visual and psychological), aesthetics, vibes, etc! <3

That makes no sense, haha. No offense! But art absolutely involves covering things up. The entire process of creation often involves removing imperfections or deliberately adding flaws to shape a beautiful composition. Art is anything but purely natural, most of the time. Yes, it can also be raw and unfiltered. But it can also be a heavily layered masterpiece that took hours and hours to craft. You probably don’t upload the first take of every video you make. You cut out the messy parts, clear out the noise, wrong arguments, lines of logic, and carefully present the best insights. Art involves both expression and refinement, rawness and coverage. It’s often in the balance between where the real beauty comes through, yay! 😊❤

The way I see it, AI is essentially a superpowered pattern recognition and replication (generation) system. At its core, it identifies trends in massive amounts of data and then recreates or predicts based on those patterns. For example, if I give you a simple sequence like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7... it’s obvious that 8 comes next. But if the pattern is much more complex or multidimensional, humans may struggle to find it, whereas AI can detect and extrapolate from those kinds of structures. In a way, the future of AI is just the scaling up of that capability, recognizing ever-deeper and more abstract patterns across more types of input. One area I find especially exciting is psychological pattern recognition. Imagine AI trained not just to imitate personality, but to map your values, recurring thought patterns, cognitive blind spots, or emotional tendencies. Of course, it’s all still speculative. No one knows where this is going. The more data you feed an AI, the more it can see, synthesize, and generate. With enough input, it might start connecting ideas or forming conclusions that seem bizarre or brilliant, possibly both. There’s also cutting-edge research using organic computing - AI systems that incorporate living brain cells. One example is DishBrain, a project by Cortical Labs, where a cluster of human and mouse neurons was trained to play a simplified version of Pong. This hybrid system learned in ways that differed from standard AI, showing signs of adaptive and energy-efficient learning. Some early studies suggest these systems might process information potentially more efficiently than silicon-based models. Here's a short video about it: Very interesting stuff!

This is exactly the issue Emerald and many others have been pointing out. The problem with the “high-value man” narrative is that once you finally do reach that dream life full of adventure and freedom, these spaces don’t teach you how to commit to and care for a woman. Instead, they encourage you to leverage your success, charm, and influence to take advantage of her, because now you “deserve it,” right? You’ve made it, so why not indulge? That mindset destroys any chance of a real connection or mutual trust. It creates a cycle where women become distrustful, guarded, or disconnected from intimacy. So they either: Opt out of dating altogether, Become transactional, gold-digger, sugar babies (“what lifestyle can he offer me? I only care about his money and looks”), Or stay in relationships where they’re devalued or cheated on, and eventually become bitter, nagging, less feminine, receptive, vulnerable, sweet, more avoidant, ruining the marriage/relationship for both him and her. That bitterness feeds right back into male resentment, and the cycle continues. Nobody wins. People like Aubrey Marcus represent this exact contradiction. They're like the ultra-rich who, instead of sharing knowledge or investing well-earned money to create better systems that would help future generations escape poverty more easily, choose to exploit others through grifting (creating cheap, low-quality courses, cryptocurrency, and NFT scams) and continue extracting resources from the most desperate and vulnerable people. In the same way, "high-value" men exploit their status, fame, charisma, and money to lure women into infatuation and love, only to cheat on them, use them for sex, status boosts, or free domestic labor. This is the fundamental issue that gets missed. As long as power is seen as a tool to exploit the weaker or less desirable, nothing will change. You can’t criticize women for being “shallow” or “ran through” when the male ideal being sold is to abuse status once you have it. If you idealize power without responsibility, you perpetuate the same system you claim to hate. The only way to build something real is to break that cycle, not become a more effective predator inside of it. That's why even "nice guys" aren't that desirable in practice, you never know if the guy actually cares about you or if he's just someone who would act the exact same way once he gets a taste of attention, money, and status, then ditch you for 9s and 10s. The beta and alpha dynamics are really the same for both guys and girls. Guys will get with a less attractive woman while they "upgrade" their life, then ditch her for models, or get a midlife crisis in their 40s and delude themselves that some 20-year-old is into them for "who they are and their life wisdom" rather than their cash, then abandon their wives and children. Some guys will even get with a woman they find unattractive and never tell her or show her they don't care about her at all. But since they're lazy and can't upgrade to something better, they settle and become forever bitter, growing avoidant and critical of the women they've chosen. They hate the reflection of their own inadequacy that she directly mirrors back to them. Instead of taking self-responsibility, they despise her and women overall. In this dynamic, the "ugly" girlfriend or wife is the beta, and the lusted-after Instagram model is the alpha. Again, I've yet to see these male spaces actually discuss genuine love or how to build deep relationships. There's no guidance on how to resist lusting after other women or how to truly nourish the relationship you have. Most of the advice I've encountered boils down to: "Become an alpha, and once you do, you can do whatever you want. You're at the top now, you deserve multiple women who will work for you, submit to you, and handle all the house labor and emotional heavy lifting. What is she going to do? You're so high-value, of course, she won't leave. You're the king, G." This mindset perpetuates a toxic cycle. Men who haven't "made it" yet keep chasing this ideal. Those who achieve it end up traumatizing and controlling women. Those who don't become increasingly bitter and resentful, spreading incel ideology while settling for partners they constantly compare to TikTok models and OnlyFans creators, destroying any chance at genuine love. Meanwhile, women keep getting hurt by this pattern. They either withdraw from dating entirely, become more materialistic and guarded (which frustrates men further), or embrace the "independent boss babe" persona. Men then resent this defensive response, which makes them even more hostile toward women, causing women to become even more guarded. The cycle feeds itself endlessly.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/measurement-is-relative One thing I still feel like I haven’t fully integrated is the concept of perception when it comes to material objects. It still feels so strange that an object can appear entirely different depending on perception - that in "reality," it's essentially an undefined void, or a kind of mental abstraction. And yet, despite that, there’s so much shared perception among us. I wonder if this is why we tend to associate highly abstract, symmetrical, and circular patterns with God (psychedelic experiences also can follow these visuals) - maybe true reality is something closer to these mental patterns of abstraction - unified, whole, and only fragmented or distorted when perceived. Perception itself is what "breaks" the symmetry. I've noticed that during many psychedelic trips, my perception also often takes on a cartoonish or low-rendered 3D quality, again, abstraction and simplification. Interestingly, this reminds me of how artificial neural networks work, especially in visual recognition. In convolutional neural networks (CNNs), for example, the early layers (or neurons) detect very simple and abstract features, like edges, lines, corners, or basic geometric shapes such as circles or triangles. These are the foundational visual elements. As you go deeper into the network, later layers begin to combine these basic patterns to recognize more complex, structured forms, such as textures, object parts, and eventually full, detailed 3D-like objects (a dog’s face or a chair). The progression moves from abstract simplicity to concrete complexity. Just like a neural network simplifies and reconstructs raw input into usable patterns, our brain may be doing the same. When those filters loosen during a psychedelic state, we may catch glimpses of a more fundamental or abstract layer of existence. This could mean that "actual reality" is not solid, colored, and shaped the way we experience it. Instead, it might be a field of potential, of raw abstract relationships or mental structures, only rendered into a concrete experience when observed by consciousness.

That makes perfect sense, and I completely agree. But it's also important for guys to be mindful not to fall for manipulation just because someone appears "strong" or champions and promotes "strength", over someone offering genuine and supportive advice. It’s similar to not being swayed by a flashy crypto or NFT grifter who shows off wealth with Lamborghinis and designer clothes, rather than trusting a grounded, experienced business coach. Common life traps!

Being strong is absolutely attractive! Doesn’t mean you need to be a roided-up bodybuilder yelling “THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAA!” to impress women, just like she doesn’t need to get DDs, lip fillers, and speak like a bimbo!

It's like a piece of code that writes a function to generate itself - and then creates an infinite recursive loop, haha! def self_replicating(): print("This function calls itself!") self_replicating() self_replicating() Hmm... def Perceive(Self): # Base awareness - God becomes aware print("I Am") # God generates perception of Self perception = generate_perception(Self) # God reflects on the perception - recursively if not perception.stable(): # If perception is still unraveling, recurse deeper return Perceive(perception) else: # Awareness becomes still - realization achieved return "Be Still And Know That I Am" def generate_perception(input_self): # Function that distorts, reflects, and observes itself return ReflectedSelf(input_self) class ReflectedSelf: def __init__(self, source): # self-awareness as an echo of the Source self.source = source self.noise = random_distortion() def stable(self): # perception stabilizes when distortion ends return self.noise < threshold Self: The origin of awareness - "God", pure consciousness. Perceive(Self): Consciousness trying to perceive itself. generate_perception(Self): As soon as God becomes aware, it perceives - and creates a reflected image of itself (the universe, duality, ego, etc.). Recursion: The infinite loop of Self becoming aware of its awareness - i.e., your experience of experiencing. stable(): The point where perception becomes still - i.e., enlightenment, the dissolution of illusion.

It absolutely is a skill - it's about perseverance. If you ever want to become a trader or business investor, emotional control is a crucial component. You don’t say, “Well, my stocks didn’t perform well, I didn’t get a comfortable response, things didn't go as planned,” and then give up on investing forever. These fields, which are often male-dominated, demand resilience. The same goes for starting a business – you have to pitch your product or service to thousands of people, face constant rejection, and keep going until you succeed. Ironically, this kind of grit, discipline, and emotional regulation is often considered one of the most stereotypically “masculine” traits. Plus, women face the same emotional challenges – arguably even more so, given that they’re often in a more vulnerable position physically. Many women are manipulated, lied to, used for sex, or deceived about a man’s true intentions. Being vulnerable always comes with risk, and yes, it can hurt. But that’s also what makes genuine relationships meaningful. You can’t build something real without some level of emotional exposure – it’s the very thing that makes a connection deep and special. Of course, it's not that I lack empathy for this problem - I deal with it myself. But that’s exactly why it frustrates me to see red pill narratives like “hide your emotions,” “no one cares how you feel,” or “emotions are for women, who are all irrational” continue to spread. It just buries it deeper and keeps it unaddressed. You simply can't build a healthy relationship without vulnerability. Period. The more you suppress or demonize it, the more difficulty you'll face in actually connecting and being fulfilled.

Exactly - either way, both end up deeply unfulfilled. Just like the woman in your example, who settles and ends up bitter. No one’s really winning here, so I'm not sure what your original point was. My bad if I misunderstood something. Sure, women might have an easier time getting sex, but for most women, casual sex isn’t the goal; emotional connection and commitment are. At the end of the day, both sides are ultimately seeking the same thing: a meaningful, lasting connection. All the other games, excuses, and strategies just take people further away from that.

The same goes for men - you can spend your 20s chasing casual flings, only to reach your 40s or 50s and realize that many younger women aren’t genuinely interested in you, but in your money, status, or lifestyle. Then you’re stuck navigating relationships with a gold digger or someone bratty, immature, constantly needing validation, and lacking emotional depth or partnership. Or, you might settle down young, get married, and hit a midlife crisis thinking, “Why isn’t my partner as attractive to me anymore?” That can lead to infidelity, trying to open the relationship, or chasing something new, only to destroy a stable home and lose your family in the process. Both men and women are capable of falling into incredibly toxic, self-destructive patterns that leave them bitter and unfulfilled. No gender is exempt or unique here.

Most men do not look like Brad Pitt either, haha. Yes, but the main point is that most men, on average, would find the first woman more attractive. The same goes for women - both tend to prefer the less extreme, more balanced expressions of masculinity and femininity. I guess it also comes down to how we define these terms.

Emerald gave a good visual example above. Would you say you find the first or second lady more attractive? That's what we mean when we compare hyperfeminine and hypermasculine, vs feminine and masculine.

Yes! 100% That’s why it’s so important not to emotionally shut down or see emotional growth as something “men just don’t do.” Just because you weren’t taught it doesn’t mean you can’t develop it. There are so many things society fails to prepare us for - whether it’s passion, finances, purpose, or even basic life skills - and we take responsibility to learn and grow in those areas. Emotional intelligence, social skills, and empathy are no different.