Arthogaan

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Posts posted by Arthogaan

  1. Posted

    17 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

    The ability to hold the boundless infinite nondual Awareness will grow. In Pointing out the Great Way it is called Postsamadhi Meditation.

    This boundless infinite timeless Awakened Awareness (as Daniel Brown calls it) is impersonal, or Awareness in at by itself. It is not necessarily individual consciousness, but awakened nondual boundless impersonal consciousness. Non-separated, non-personal. Awake.

    With Nonmeditation Yoga, you can let Awakened Awareness hold the view and do the meditation. "You" just get out of the way. Same holds for daily activity. Awakened Awareness is more intelligent than normal ego-consciousness, since filters & lenses are removed. Daniel Brown once said: "I let Awakened Awareness do it (I think in the context of that statement writing a book), and I just get out of the way." That is how it feels.

    Reading and analytical thinking is about the most difficult activitiy while keeping mindfullness/Awakened Awareness, but it can be done.

    • "The reappearance of the mind's spontaneous relative activity at this extraordinary level of practice [Nonmeditation Yoga] brings continuous supreme bliss (bde steng). Because mindfulness/recognition now has its own force (shugs), it goes on by itself without any effort whatsoever." 
    • "At this final stage awakened wisdom [Awakened Awareness] spreads rapidly so that all possible emanations of the mind become the embodiment of awakened wisdom. The term emanation ofnothingcaptures both the relative and the ultimate dimensions of truth, respectively. All the mind's relative activity becomes the play (rol du) of the always-here mind. Where ordinary thoughts and perceptions once were, "only the great fire of understanding burns" (TN, p. 536)."
    • "Blended practice occurs when you are forever mindful of the real nature/clear-light mind throughout the four behavioral conditions. (TN, p. 547)"

    Pointing out the Great Way, Brown

     

    Daniel Brown, Video below, starting 57min 40 sec:

    • Map 2: On stabilizing Awakening [or Awakened (Nondual) Awareness] 
    • Map 3 would be to Liberation / Enlightenment.
    • Map 1 is to Awakening/Awakened Awareness.

    In my opinion, and that of Daniel Brown, the most sophisticated meditation/training system on the planet. Daniel Brown has received the clearance from Menri Trizin to translate all the previous secret teachings, including Tummo/Energetic Inner Fire Yoga with or without consort, Treckö and Togal (Visionary practices to get rid of the solidity of the visual field), dark retreat, dream yoga, and so on and on. And lots of other really unique techniques that neither Zen nor Theravada, nor any other tradition, have.

    and the result:

    The timeline to Enlightenment. Done correctly with energetic practices added a few years...

     

    How is that possible that in my 8 years spiritual journey I never heard of Daniel Brown - he seems phenomenal. All these techniques that he describes in a video- is it included in the book?

  2. Posted

    4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

    So, conforming to the enlightened mindstream mainly is:

    • (1) Visual Field nondual, mere appearance, "hovering" in Infinite Vasteness/Infinity, being manifested/imagined right now
    • (2) every thought arising/feeling arising is seen as emerging out of True Being/consciousness, made out of it, moving in it. Especially all thoughts/feelings relating to I/me. Feels impersonal, no separate indiduality found in any of that.

    Thank you for such a detailed answer. Like really - Namaste :x

    I am maintaining that for most of the day. I would even say that it is my new default state after a shift I had 2 days ago. It is really obvious when I am walking or sitting or standing. But I am not sure what happens when I focus on some activity like checking my phone or reading something. Even writing these words I can hold the nondual visual field. But When I want to read something or I check my phone the focus collapses from panoramic to just  the object of attention. And I am not sure how much separation is there when this collapsing happens. In a way there is just activity of reading happening without ideas of me doing it, but on the other hand when I come out of this reading activity there is a sense of "oh - i was not fully dissolved while reading". Any comment on that?

  5. Posted

     

     

    Tell me what you see
    In the afterlife
    Par-delà le ciel
    Par-delà le soleil

    In all there is to learn
    The sun is on our side
    And though you're on the run
    You will survive
    Expanded to the state of light
    The deepest corners of the world
    Gliding through the lowlands
    And swimming all the oceans
    Walking through the silence
    Already made it through the night
    There will be a new day
    Whenever the sun rises

    You're invisible
    You're in everything
    Tell me what you see
    Tell me what you see
    When you're everywhere
    When you're everywhere
    Tell me now
    Tell me now

    While you drift away from all the plagues of this world
    You're put out of misery, giant monster
    You won't have to face it again
    Every step of the way gets you higher

    All the voices trapped underneath the ground
    Let 'em all go in the sky
    Find the power lost underneath the ground
    Let it all blow in the sky
    All the voices trapped in my head
    Let 'em all scream in the night
    Find the power lost underneath the ground
    Let it all blow in the sky

    @Breakingthewall @Water by the River

  6. Posted

    3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

    For me that was the most tricky stage. One has to install an automized mindfullness-process that cuts of anything separate/I-feeling/I-thought automatically and fast enough, but can't use willful artificial activity for it (because that is separate-self/ego/thought process) again, and that is way too slow and cuts off Nonduality/Awakening). Best description for that stage I found is Brown, Pointing out the Great Way, chapter Nonmeditation. I had to read it dozens of times over the years to get the nuances...

    Jhanas also work, but in my opinion Mahamudra/Nonmeditation is more sophisticated and efficient. Historically, it was developed in Tibet over a long time with many many practitioners, while Theravada/Jhana looks for me more like way earlier Buddhism. Although it of course also works, see Frank Yang, Daniel Ingram and Roger Thisdell. But all(!) say that at the last stages they needed to add something like Dzogchen/Mahamudra/Do-Nothing meditation and not only willful concentration (artificial activity). 

    This description of the 9th fetter by Frank Yang describes my experience of the last 2 days:

    """

    9th fetter is restlessness. Even after the Self/self is completely gone, there remains the debris of old conditions that are still operating, albeit mostly at the subconscious level now…manifesting themselves through very subtle beliefs, assumptions, and sensations that make you feel, in ways you can’t really point your fingers to, that things should somehow be different. And that there is something that you should be doing to course correct this misalignment.

    Unable to cling on to a self, these sensations from time to time “rise up” against the flow of life, thus making you believe that there exists versions of realities other than whatever is happening right now. You can still experience a little bit of suffering here. Although by this time your suffering level has been decreased by about 95 percent. 

    """

  9. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

    https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/let-s-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness

    https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/meta-awareness-modes-of-perceptions-super-positions-cycling-insight-stages-and-boundarylessness

     

    https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/centrelessness-boundarylessness-phenomenology-and-freedom-from-the-cage-of-the-mind

    https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/throwing-my-hat-in-the-jhana-ring

     

    Hope that is useful. With this information you can align the Jhana path with the descriptions of my original post.

    Basically, at that stage of the path one can't force it, and Jhana Concentration style becomes less efficient.

    Something like Mahamudra/Non-Meditation or Dzogchen becomes more efficient at the last stages. 

    https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation Yoga&author=Water by the River

    But not before this stage, shortly before the finishing line.

     

    Haha, I am more or less familiar with all the links provided (I am consuming Roger like crazy past two days) and still I am not sure if that comprehension non-experience is the 8th jhana or not.

    Jhanas don't resonate at this stage.

    I will carefully read your post on mahamudra, thanks.

    My practice lately was just trying to maintain do nothing/letting go of contractions for the whole day.

  10. Posted

    On 25.02.2024 at 10:04 AM, Water by the River said:

    You are right that this is the last piece of the puzzle. Self-Awareness (bold marking by me), or awareness of its own existence is indeed NOT the   Absolute. Its the last illusion... I wouldn't say that for Awareness (since here we would be on slippery terrain), but for self-awareness/self-consciousness definitely.

    Massaro summarized it nicely. Maybe watch that video a few times, and then the other parts of the Infinity-series:

    Awareness is "always there" (or not, since its beyond existing and non-existing), at least as a potential for sentience (if nothing arises, aka cessation, deep sleep), but if there is nothing to perceive there is no (self-)-consciousness. Unaware Deep Sleep, Cessation. But it doesnt really make sense to talk about awareness/consciousness if there is no perception, since then there is also no self-consciousness or self-awareness. Its pure Infinity/Absolute. The clap of the one hand.

    THAT Reality/Being which can be unaware of itself is what you are. Not the (self-)awareness with which one identifies, that is one of the last lenses/filters of illusion. You can be nothing at all, unaware of yourself (since there is no self-reflective self yet), with the potential for sentience. In your case, I assume getting that is the last building block to Enlightenment and fully getting what you are.

    Without fully realizing that, there is a subtle murky "nothing" self (Roger Thisdell stage 4). Thisdells stage 5 (another video) is then the resolve of the contradictions of stage 4.

    Everything else after this True Being/Absolute comes later: Manifestation, Infinite Field of mere appearance, gods & humans & aliens and the whole shebang.

    The "I am self-Awareness/Consciousness" feeling/thought/Gestalt (very subtle, hard to spot, the end boss so to say) is the last illusion/filter/lense of the last separate-self that can be constructed. And since it can be seen, since it changes, its an object, temporary, moving in True You.

    Leaves us with the point who/what realized all of that? Reality/Being realizes itself. And that is called Enlightenment. Its not personal, its not anything separate. It is Reality comprehending itself.

     

    Jac O'Keffee:

    "We're left with consciousness that cannot know  itself. It's such a fundamental that it actually   can't know itself.

    However, it is known.  You can drop back there and it is known,   but you can't bring yourself there  or your capacities to know it.  

    It's almost like it's so fundamental  that it can't turn around and see itself.   It doesn't see itself. That's too much  movement. That's movement such as space,   time and identification and me, myself, I,  and the building of my movie that happens".

     

    And maybe most important. It is not an it, or an Absolute, or anything "third person singular"-pronoun at all that "has" "Awareness" and explodes into manifestation. IT IS You. True You. With a big Y. 

    That becomes totally obvious when the whole field is a mere appearance floating in Nothingness/Infinity (1), and you are "It" since there is no separate anything left at all, no center at all left (2). Nondual mere appearance, impersonally floating in the Infinite impersonal Universal Mind. Something reflecting about what it is (awareness,self-awareness, whatever) is already a separate-self (a manifestation, arising, moving within You. I-Thoughts/I-feelings have no dimension or form, but are still appearance/imagination/arising/"form"), and that hides the True Reality/Being. Too much movement... So yes, its tricky...

    Roger Thisdells stage model is nice. Since at stage 3 "Big-Mind" (Frank Yang called that God-state, easy to be reached via Psychedelics), one is already the nondual field (1). But getting the separate self mostly empty (Thisdell stage 4), and totally empty (Thisdell stage 5, centerlessness, Enlightenment), needs emptying out the separate-self completely. I have never seen one case where that was done mainly or purely with psychedelics. Not enough time in these states to empty out/transcend/understand the "high-speed-machine-gun-illusion-fire" of the separte-self-ego. But instead that lovely darling quite active appropriating all of the Nondual Infinity, Gods, Demons, ETs, n+1... Which sometimes is not for the faint-of-hearted.

     

    Ok, so, after mis-understanding the question the way I wanted in order to write about what I liked, lets come back to the original question: 

    And why the "first" movement happened?

    1.First, that is a question that presupposes duality. Form vs. emptiness, and also time. Which means it can't really be answered on the level of concepts. But lets try it anyway as good as possible, just so that it calms the remaining questions you have, so that you can rest in your True Being in a non-conceptual way so that the Big Bang can happen..

    2. Think in dimensions of Indras Net. Just because "your" perspective is "switched off" in cessation/deep sleep doesn't shut off all other perspectives. Understanding one single perspective ("yours") is enough to understand the structure of all perspectives/beings/nodes in Indras Net as Universal/Infinite Mind. Indras Net (which is also True You, but lets take the separte perspective) "continues" happily even if your perspective goes cessation/infinite/blank.

    3. Who said it ever started? That is already a lot of Duality smuggled in.

    The past is imagined in its Totality right here and now. Its all a big illusion, including the past. True You is here right now, imagining all of it, fooling itself with such questions as you have (sorry to say, but you are close to the endgame boss, so I hope you forgive me). Get "rid" of the questions, let them dissolve in your infinite Nondual Being as mere movements of thought-arisings, and rest in your being in a non-conceptual way (Nonmeditation-Yoga). And sometimes softly ask yourself "who hears these words right now", but without effort and grasping. I have written extensively about Nonmeditation-Yoga (Mahamudra) somewhere else. Then the Big Bang can happen, Infinite Reality understanding itself.

    4. Only Formlessness/emptiness/Infinity would be an asymetry. God has infinite potential of manifestation that apparently is being explored right here & now by "you" and "me" and "everyone else". To use a human metaphor: It is the nature of the Infinite to explore its potential, going from each creation cycle to the next. There have been many descriptions when coming out of cesstion/Nirvikalpha this original impulse for creation can be experienced. Not IN cessation (since there is nothing/pure infinity), but coming out of it.

    And, since its en vogue, lets close with ET:

     

    After so much Selling Water by the River, here the much more precise summary: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! - Basho

    Holy shit man. This is Golden. I just read that in meditative state and it clicked. You beautifullly filled out the spots left by Roger and Massaro.

    Non-experiencial comprehension of infinity. 

    Could you help me understand how that comprehension relates to 7, 8th and 9th Jhana?

  11. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    Then why to call it God if it's slave of it's nature? It's just the reality 

    Each name brings with it some insights, archetypes.

    I could say why call it reality if it's empty/imagined/holographic and infinitely inteligent (therefore good).

    "God" brings something profound to the party.

    "Dream" brings something cool too.

    Ultimately it's of course neither and all at the same time.

  13. Posted

    2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

    It is always you, but a centerless you that is not a you, is existence, and as I see it, it has no choice, it exists infinitely in its infinite perfection for the fact of being unlimited and in eternal movement for the same reason , like an infinite kaleidoscope of infinite intelligence.

    From my current understanding this is exactly what Leo is saying.

    When Leo speaks about being God there is no center, no direction of attention, God is distributed imagination-stuff. Soup of blended existence. And Leo also points to "no choice" - he said that when you merge with this Infinity it's almost like you have no choice because you will be bound to do the most perfectly inteligent thing to imagine. He pointed to the same thing in Free will vs No free will video.

    The most important thing is that the sense of localized self must be gone. 

  15. Posted

    33 minutes ago, Someone here said:

    Nothing .

    Consciousness. You can train yourself to realize that it does not fully shut off even in deep sleep.

     

    34 minutes ago, Someone here said:

    And why are you making real life so to speak analogous to a dream ?

    Because This is a dream.

     

    35 minutes ago, Someone here said:

    just don't want to accept that death is either an endless bottomless void of nothingness or the mysterious unknown. 

    You just don't want to realize that upper case YOU ARE ETERNAL.

  16. Posted · Edited by Arthogaan

    9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

    there are no POVs brother because POV is something created by the ego.

    When there is an ego there is a POV, therefore there must be also 'other POVs'.

    If you stay yourself as Nothing and don't identify yourself with anything in your current perception, there is not even you or others, just Bliss. 

    I fully agree and that's what I meant. I meant One thing happening. Like a smeared acrros everything wibbly wobbly POV. Not a location POV. Like in a VR game you have first person POV and then you become a witness kinda like 3rd person view and then you dissolve it and now the camera can go anywhere and kinda at once.

    But probably pov is a misleading word for that. 

  18. Posted

    At night, when one dream ends and next begins - what remains?

    7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

    matter of observable fact the body decays into dust and rot alright?.. Once your physical body dies it just dissolves into it's essential elements and just evaporates in nature.

    Once the first dream ends, all dreamed up matter with its essential elements are gone, and in the next dream they are dreamed up anew. What remains is Consciousness/Dreamer.

  19. Posted

    3 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    Isn't it you saying I cannot say "cringe"?

    I didn't say you can't. I am just expressing my opinion that it's cringe to use it that often.
     

    4 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    I'm not being disrespectful at all

    I believe you that you think that. However again, it is my personal opinion that you are with "your indian guru friends" "your guru" "you spiritualist" and so on - so I just express my opinion

     

    5 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    assume the world must conform to your personal tastes and likes.

    I don't assume that. again I am just expressing my opinion about your communication. If you can't accept that then it's you who thinks that the world must conform to your personal tastes.

  20. Posted

    28 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    humans are humans. we have a mix of emotions and behaviouf

    Agreed.

     

    29 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    kindly state how i'm wrong here?

    You are not wrong. I just don't like your disrespectful tone with sentences like "your indian guru friends".

     

    31 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    people don't act to suit your tastes or needs.

    Agreed and I could say the same to you.

     

    32 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

    i'm glad we mutually dislike each other.

    Yup. There's something sincere in that. I'm sure it will end in bromance eventually ^_^

  21. Posted

    5 hours ago, bebotalk said:

    I don't hide my negativity

    Typical for non-spiritualists. 

    5 hours ago, bebotalk said:

    I use vernacular often. And? It's just words. 

    Nothing. It's just cringe to see cringe everywhere.

     

    5 hours ago, bebotalk said:

    I'm not sure what your issue is with me. all can place opinions here.

    You are negative and feeling superior. You have the right to your opinions and negativity yes, and in the same way I have the right to not like you and point out your hypocrisy. Everything is okay.