BlueOak

Yes to an extent. If any imposed government could even stand after this and the worldwide pressure. Their next revolution, would never start peacefully given the history like the last, only by continued civil unrest. Its a bigger country, better terrain for resistance fighters not just a desert, lots of countries willing to ship arms there with longer borders for entry. A more resistant population even from the start, Iraq had some element of the military for example that welcomed the invaders, until foolish decisions were made to stand them all down. I was going to say Ukraine has less radicalisation which is true but not less potential resistance fighters. They've opened up their weapon stockpiles to anyone and others outside of Ukraine are still willing to arm them. A few from other countries have gone to join them already and its just days in. Then you add the element of the population calling NATO weak in its response, and they have incentive to show strength and keep arming resistance, showing a response and increasing border security. The predictable rise of the right. I saw the UK defense secretary in an interview say the UK would continue to arm Ukraine. To be honest I would never say this about Syria, Iraq, Lybia or the others wars I have lived through but this felt like an attack on Europe and so I want them to get whatever weapons will help defend it. There is popular support for that right now over here, with all major political parties working together and no political point scoring off each other which is a rare unity for UK politics and popular will. *I think the EU is also sending further anti air weaponry as well.

Resistance does yield results. Hard fought painful results. The USSR pulled out of afghanistan once for example, but we can go through many conflicts where people have left because the cost was too high. Vietnam for example. There is no escaping that hatred will result from this, that's already known. Whatever course is taken from this point hatred will exist. Resistance exists and won't be stopped by violence, it has the opposite result. These are known results and I have seen many times repeat. So these are not the things we can do anything about existing. When people say this situation may last decades I can't see it, but ten years yes.

That will happen anyway. When a population doesn't want something they resist it. The same as if I were to tell you something you were resisting, you'd resist the comment. Violence and resistance won't end whenever the war does, it will go on for a decade. Its a big place, lots of people, large borders, lots of ways for fighters and arms to get in.

Overall there is a certain level of detachment from many here and elsewhere I have witnessed in a time where we would benefit instead from the opposite, from sympathy and understanding. Right now when people need it. That is in me too, I am not immune, I go to fantasy or hopeful reality as well rather than truth.

Being addicted to trauma and pain. Do you find naturally living is the only way this goes away? It has done over time. I no longer need to write out traumas as much, when I have spoken about them and got feedback or help I don't need to shape my reality, conversations or experience around the emotions that I am used to anymore. Integrating powerlessness, hate and shame were tough ones. Shame or humiliation isn't done yet fully. I haven't for a long time but now I am listening to music that makes me feel sadness or just intensely on repeat. Do you experience that yourself? The deep moving songs that bring it out of you so you can relieve the emotion. Its still addictive, and its hard to let go of what defined your identity for so long. The welling emotion and full bodied feelings that come out of the knots in the stomach or pressure on the chest. It makes you feel alive, when otherwise you can be apathetic, disconnected or dead inside. Thoughts?

First off thanks to everyone that posted. I resisted coming back to read because I thought after working through much of it my trauma was resolved. I find a level of shame when I lose my head to my heart and the message ends up especially messy or muddled. Shame and Humilation are not yet integrated in me. So I tried to with some success after this but not entirely. @acidgoofy I did. I felt god, as god, I experienced a white light reality and what I will call divine love. I experienced large consciousness and small consciousness. I realised there was nothing but [ ] this, life and sensation. All that persists is perception and that was all that was permanent. Then I argued, fought and my ego came back stronger than ever. Unresolved things move very painfully and fast in that state to hit you in the face. I could seek again, I know all it takes is to be in a state to recieve. Thank you @Mu_ Enjoy it while its there. Flip the perspective. I like that Thank you. Apathy/Acceptance is where I get stuck mostly. Emotions do sometimes cost me my job or relationship. Feelings of shame mostly I would say. I felt it was betrayal last time, going above me to my boss before anyone told me. I think deep down it was that a few people commented on a behavior and my supervisor blindsided me by going straight to the manager. They did not want me to leave but I felt enough shame that I cloaked it as feeling betrayed. I need to work on shame and humilation still. I tried after this post but I was only partially successful integrating and accepting it. @puporing It happens naturally as each of us learns more, we can't help but pass it on. @Loba Lot of material, thanks for taking the time. My family has a lot of addiction in it. My brother does drugs, my father drinks, I exercise and/or eat, or play games, my mother does codependency. So I always appreciate greater insight. Gratitude for the material I will review it again tomorrow. @Javfly33 Yes, but feeling something is better than nothing. I was wondering if i'd made a backstep coming back to this way of being. Again I didn't expect this many replies. Thanks again all of you, good luck with you life and your day.

Its not about claim its about how wars work. They are never limited to a specific region or area, they can often spill out into neighboring countries. Both in terms of refugees, foreign fighters and military or non military aid. Things destabalize and border incidents happen. It just takes one missile or bomb to go astray, and we have an incident. There are reports of foreign fighters already assisting Ukraine unofficially. This is a hard border with Nato that doesn't require officially sanctioned action to cause escalation into a wider war. While I'll say periods of peace are longer than periods of war. On stability I've been alive 40 years+ and the generations before me after WW2 also enjoyed stability. Stability doesn't mean peace. I've seen wars come and go, on top of that I was born in the times of troubles in the UK. This isn't whack-a-mole this is a large nuclear power and a large nuclear alliance of powers. All with a large amount of manpower and resources.. That's why its different to your earlier examples of African nations or regional conflict. Its changing the international order you've dismissed as rare. Well if its rare then its worth hanging on to, because so far its meant I've never lived in fear of being nuked, or seeing people I cared about die. War changes things globally. Nationalism rises, war budgets rise, readinesses rises, other nations take it as a cue to fight their own wars or use it as an opportunity. People suffer from economic downturns, and recessions, groups radicalize and people die. Each and every time this happens we should be concerned, and 'buckle up'. I always have done and I've done every small thing I can to make people aware of the repercussions of each I've seen. There are better ways to release pressure than invading other countries. *Also the Russian Empire does have claim to much of eastern Europe, which is why that rhetoric was notable and dangerous.

That must be tough at the moment. How does a detailed perspective on both sides of something not get overly influenced by your emotional reaction? The more detail I go into the more emotional bias I tend to see in something. The less I speak or expand the more balanced a response I seem to have.

Poland and Romania border Ukraine and wars don't respect lines on a map. To take your own words: This is a potential start of WW3 and is a possible end to the world. Granted its unlikely but to not take the situation seriously and leave it completely up to chance is irresponsible. One of the reasons we ended up here is because Europe were not strong and unified in their responses, and importantly their military or their strategic goals. If countries can just take whatever they want, invade wherever they want, that leads us back to an unstable world and a more dangerous one. Not to mention the human cost, the economic instability, the refugee's. With the weapons countries now have at their disposal such a scenario does lead to the end of world at some point or more likely regional use of nuclear weapons. I remember a respect expert on nuclear weapons stating there was an even chance that the world would see some sort of regional nuclear war. These kinds of things are worth attention and measured responses to them to see they never reach that point.

The more your survival is threatened the less time, need or want you have for seeing a bigger picture, because the here and now become what is critically important. You have to understand people at a minimum go back to what they are comfortable with when they are stressed, but when there is an actual potential to lose your life or at least for me to see war spreading over the continent, its considerably harder to then step back and do systematic thinking.

I'll only add that the kind of treaty i suggested was a possibility for mutual defense until about 24 hours ago. It would have been a potential compromise over Ukraine as well. Now its very much an us verse them moment for the years ahead.

You are probably right.

There is a better option. Defensive treaties that everyone, even Russia signs, which protect Finland and Sweden from attack by anyone, even those in the treaty. That would be an idealistic middle ground. Failing that yes. I realise this risks a greater war that even I may end up in, but without it territorial ambitions may extended to Finland at some point. We may be headed to a larger war anyway. I didn't see this day coming, I resisted seeing it, so now yes I am open to the possibility Finland, Poland, Romania and the Baltic states may see convential war. This is why you see such worried response from the baltic leaders, they obviously see it too.

I don't advocate for any of these, I don't see a solution I would personally want yet. However the alternatives I can see are: Ukraine being given Nato membership or defensive treaties but being disarmed. Ukraine being given free elections but being disarmed. Ukraine being split up into smaller states. Some democratic, some not. A Cold War with Russia A Berlin Wall type of situation. A Hot Convential War with Russia This conflict being done and that's finally it. Unlikely now. A long strategy: Europe Being less reliant on Russian Gas and isolating them to accelerate the countries decline until eventually their weapons no longer pose the same threat years from now. Nuclear War Assassinating Putin at some point quietly 10 years from now. A move within russia to topple Putin. Which people say is impossible but it depends how much the rich in that country are hurting because of his actions here. Watching while other smaller states are gobbled up by his territorial ambitions. That's all I have to mind, as I say I don't advocate for any of these. I don't see a possibility of Russia and Europe coming together after this. Not while Putin is the leader of that country. What he has done is, eliminate many options he had and fix himself on a somewhat predictable course toward war or isolation. You will be trying to tell people who have just seen their friends and family die, that we now need to be friends with the man who did it. Maybe you can do that when they rebuild after this is done, 5 or ten years after the war but anything you say will be insensitive at best and drowned out by understandable hatred and grief at worst. This hasn't sunk in yet for most people, and when it does a lot of hatred will come Russia's way. I talked to someone who dislikes america over here for example and he had completely flipped his position. There will be many years after this has been finished, a rightful hated and anger towards Putin and Russia.

Yes. There is a point where people have to accept their own actions. I too am also beyond fed up of people using other countries to justify their own behavior or policy. I used to see it in people all the time, I used to do it all the time when I was younger.

I hid my original post as I hadn't seen Leo had already commented on this. What you are asking is extremely difficult. They are currently in a warzone. The person in a fight/flight reflex fearing for their life. Mabybe try to put yourself in that mindset when you were fearing for your life, your families life etc. @Vynce My original post said people drop down into other spiral dynamic stages when they are threatened, strength, security, heartfelt emotion etc, so making a video on it would be extremely difficult for people to take right now. Maybe 5 years from now when we can look at it with some distance it'd be beneficial but right now with people dying its going to extremely hard for him to have any kind of rational multi perspective approach that's received as it could be later.

If I could have a suggestion it would be to get a few local people on board with this, it would probably help them focus on something positive right now when they need it most, to feel like they are contributing spreading the message. If you have any friends and family who need it, anything might help. Also if for some reason the power goes out, get a friend overseas to assist so it continues, someone you trust.

I actually envy you for keeping your head and doing what you can. You are probably handling this better than I would. My heart is with you and your people. Please be safe and please come back to us when you get throught this and tell us you are.

I am going to quote a post I saw on this video a second ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3CNZwHW3OA Please note these are not my words, but they raise a few points I had not thought of. 1 and 2 specifically, which will lead to a level of escalation, or negotiation to end the build up. I would add importantly 4, That russia might be trying to push the territory owned as the poster suggests, or instead the threat of it as a new negotiating position.

Wars beget wars. They push people into a fear mindset collectively, and into thinking about survival. It has some potential to spill into other former soviet states and you can see some of the baltic leaders expressing this fear. Blame gets let out, and people justify actions based on trauma. In that mindset yes its possible. Its still far more likely to be limited in scope. Unless Nato itself is attacked. Some potential flashpoints now are, the desire for other nations now to join Nato to protect them from this fate, the increased weapons that will now be sent to Eastern Europe, and some of the surrounding regions seeing border wars, as can happen in wartime. And of course Taiwan, which is coming very soon, and I want you to think in terms of the regional powers there, as that's where flashpoints are possible.

I've seen many stage yellow teachers expanding perception when they do speak or act. Especially with how people relate to the different organizations, individual and structures that exist in life. Spiral Dynamics is an example. I've also found the most personal development when I do this within myself, and the most glaring personal shadows when I resist and don't. I completely agree though I don't know better than you how to live your life, and that's why changing people is an uphill battle that I am not qualified to fight, and every time I think I can or do I rightly get burned. Its only how people relate or percieve the world that we can have any hope of influencing in others, like you are doing right here. All the best. @aurum

If you have people that can present information in a way others can accept, get the resources together to do it and the political will or other supporting organizations on board. If you are basing this off Leo's model, then use the model as a map to reach the groups on it. Treat them all as important but more importantly how they relate to each other. It is the relationships between these stages that can most easily be altered or tweaked, rather than the nature or the weight of many individual organizations and people in them. Finally it's not enough to have the solutions, even the resources for the solutions, you have to be able to take those ideas and disseminate them across the population in ways that meet them where they live, while reaching a large audience and building up enough trust that what you say isn't dismissed out of hand or ignored. For instance using speakers, personalities and charisma. Alternatively rather than tweaking broad solutions for the relationships between systems or organizations depicted on the spiral dynamics model, you can focus assisting the part of society suffering the most, because even helping those people a bit raises the quality of life present in the country or the planet. Which is where much of charity work is focused for example, making small hard won gains. This would lean into more green thinking but its still very valuable. I'd suggest you run it as a charity or foundation for tax breaks or donations and start there. *Or you can contribute toward things like the environment and addressing over population exclusively, the two biggest threats to our extinction, it depends on your goal.

@Barna I wanted to come back to this to say I read it at the time, and appreciated the time you put into it. So gratitude for it. I wasn't ready to give a response until now. I have distance, space between emotions and reality most of the time. I still feel emotional knots, pains and pressures that are the onset of emotion. Yesterday for example I hit a peak, started external and later in the night went internal to resassure my limpic body, and find parts of myself I am pushing away still. I have experienced space and become it in spiritual experience. But I struggle to fully be the separation you speak about, as I am both, this talking to you now and consciousness. Yesterday I realised living is enough, as long I live I observe and grow. I am a serious person that's part of this ego's personality, intense at times and overbearing at its worst. Its not a weakness its just a trait, sometimes intensity leads to focused understanding, effort, or strength for example when you need it. Othertimes it leads to self stubborness, self destruction and being overbearing on others. Accepting truth yes, I've done that more and more as the years go on. It leads to both being accepted by others but it can lead to apathy within powerlessness to change what cannot be changed.. While I am okay with powerlessness now, I don't resist what I cannot change near as much, it still leads to stagnation when its taken too far. I feel I am there, in stagnation and stubborness.

Thank you @puporing I had an emotional peak yesterday where I had to go through a few things. Usually I do this quietly to myself, not sure why I felt like sharing perhaps its as you say to be seen, vocalize. Its a balance of not doing this for its own sake or overindulging in it but still being with yourself or those difficult emotions when you are having a night of it. I never have been able to afford a healer or professional so its been a long process. Posts like yours are what helped and do help, videos where someone else said what I was feeling or thinking. I used to crave and manipulate for acceptance, argue for it, fight for it in an unhealthy way. Then I realised just by being honest and accepting yourself its often enough. Seeing it reflect in others because you are not pushing it away anymore and its accepted in you. Thanks again Take care of yourself.

Welcome. I remember one job a couple of decades ago where the boss was always telling me what I was doing wrong, always very full on. I was sure I was going to get the sack but then he turned around and offered me the business. Turns out he was the opposite of fragile, at the time I was fragile, I had no sense of boundaries or much self worth. That's the kind of person I would want, only I would want to stand my own more and argue with him. When I was a young kid 13-18 I was a waiter in a large busy resturant, same deal, everyone was arguing with each other all the time. The place went through 52 staff in a year and 5 bosses in 3 years. Looking back that was the beginning of me learning to get a thicker skin, to stand my own ground, as it was a shark pit until after work where everyone drunk together and blew off steam. Finally maybe watch films like Snatch. I am watching a reaction video to snatch right now in the background, opened before I saw this thread yesterday :D. Good synchronicity. This is a film about angry people, pushing each others boundaries in an over dramatic and sometimes funny way. Movies can however trigger emotions, which let us go through them from the comfort of a couch. It is very red humour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snatch_(film) Here is the reaction if you don't want the full thing: Or find your flavor of red, I like humor too as you can put aside your ego naturally. Same with comedians, its just a bit of fun, so we put our egos and defenses at the door. *If you want the best Red and Blue series ever made, its The Wire. If I could advise people to watch one thing in their life it'd always be that.