BlueOak

I have a problem where I begin to care or get invested in something, or a relationship (of any kind), and form an identity based on that job, hobby, relationship, career or even country. If I pull back from the identity I find myself being ambivalent about the subject, and trying to rid myself of its association. One solution is a macro identity around several subjects, which gives me some distance, but that eventually will be questioned or exposed as flawed, as all identities eventually are. I struggle to redefine the identity when its threatened, or move away from it and abandon the subject entirely. This is either still from a pattern of abuse I haven't resolved, and coping mechanisms which have arisen, or natural done by caring about something. I've never asked any of you if you attach identities to things in this way, and then feel they need defending or boundaries reinforcing when they are threatened. I feel this is a huge green spot that's at the root of many arguments I have, seek out, or am attracted to.

Thank you . Aside from minor things which appeared everywhere, there was an ongoing medical condition in the family that someone brought up a specific identity dispute in the middle of, which infuriated me because it had the potential to block the care someone else in the family needed, that was about one of three large arguments in a week on similar subjects. All of them highlighting identity. Ultimately I have to learn that even if I love someone, repetition of a viewpoint isn't enough to convince a person of solutions to even critical health needs. It worked out by luck, but it was one more reminder that hitting my head against walls gets nowhere. I wouldn't ever use ready as a term, because that means I think my perspective ahead of someone else. Every perspective is happening at the same time, and if society is going one way in a large group, why would I keep talking or doing things the majority of it doesn't want to see/hear. I am no better than anyone else and my perspective isn't more correct than anyone else's. It's not an oh woe is me post, it's an acknowledgment that the majority are where the majority want to be, and nothing changes or stays changed without their doing so. Spiritual people used to say it was going against or with the stream, I used to ignore that saying but I can't anymore because I can't unsee the truth of my lifetime. Stagnation is impossible because as the collective changes we do to. Even if we are dragged along. The only choice I see is to go with it willingly or not.

Appreciate the thoughts thank you. Of it being natural and unavoidable to an extent. It gives me another understanding of why more spiritual people do detach themselves or take a step back, I think it extends the length of time you can be in a role or identity. I had a couple of weeks of just near constant arguments from different directions, around identity to the point I needed a break and a pep talk Why would I do something that nobody wanted? That would only be for me. As far as I have ever been able to tell I never had a live path defined in that way. To learn to deal with things like uncertainty, humility, powerlessness, abuse etc. I've always been the person that argued anyway, that saw something was more effective, or more helpful, might heal someone, and just done it, despite the arguments or the resistance. I think that is selfish, no matter if it helps someone. I can't just be an individual making choices about what's best or how best to solve a problem. If people want to experience something different who am I to say otherwise, I've been too singleminded and brash in this lifetime. I agree this a better way of looking at it. I do obsess with the results still, of all things. Anything you could name, from the smallest inconsequential thing you'd laugh at, to the biggest life-defining thing. For values, if I question your values, doesn't that question you in the same way? Aren't identities just sets of values and beliefs? Values shift, morality shifts, even focus shifts subtly so things become less important, or not valued in the same way, even hated or despised over time. Appreciate the words thank you all.

When I woke up I realised I needed to add something to this, because its not totally out of our control: "Most People’s Lives are a Direct Reflection of the Expectations of Their Peer Group." Tony Robbins Something I agree with. If you make your peer group all people (or a large group you interact with), because we are all people, you generally are moved back to a center point over time. I understand some spiritual people say we shift realities, but for me if we do they are within a certain band of experience. This is another way of describing the quote above. The other day I removed myself from all political discussions online, all social discussions, all talks on the war, all spiritual groups, even most reaction channels i'd been watching to leave barebones few technical groups. I had resolved to leave this forum too, but I wanted to make my last posts something more positive or at least constructive. To bring this full circle this is what I mean about identities interfering with life, and yet I haven't been able to invest time in something, without developing a care for that thing, and an identity soon to follow.

I used to believe so and that was part of my identity. I now believe this only happens when other people are already open to changing and changing too. It's a collective effort to do anything meaningful and it only lasts if the collective is already becoming that which you change into.

Absolutely. I think it depends on the therapist, but most people benefit at the least from having an attentive but completely neutral voice in the room to speak to. Sadly they are all miles out of my price range :D, I am broke and living on the poverty line. Its the old saying many of those who need therapy can't afford it, but they need it to hold down a decent job to be able to afford it. As an aside, not being able to afford help is part of why society is slow to change and stagnated, 'people never change' to me translates to, its much easier to change if most people around you are already at a point, and collectively changing, rather than doing so solo. So I do self-analysis like this, and try to find common patterns I see and adjust them, either consciously by choice, or unconsciously by repetition to something better. Apart from feeling energy, I lack all wider spiritual perspectives, I know all life is spiritual and speaking to me every waking moment, but I don't even recall 99.9% of my dreams now, my spiritual connections are shot, so this forum can afford a wider perspective I lack. I really want to be able to be invested in the next job I try to do for example, without feeling attached to the identity of that job, or some larger identity that's associated with it. Maybe that is impossible and I want to both have my cake and eat it.

This is also a common narcs response to dismiss another's reaction as unimportant, lesser, or incorrect. You can't moderate how others respond. Its been a helpful demonstration as the original post was highlighting that anyone is capable of narcissistic patterns.

Not surprised. Its what narcs do. They can dehumanize people insult them, have little empathy or feeling. All the time feeling disconnected or above what's going on. In this case your attempt to moderate someone's else's conversation and assume control of it. All the time thinking themselves smug and superior. Having dealt with narcs most of my life I should have spotted your pattern.

Let's reflect this back line for line. I sure as hell didn't ask for your comment either yet you made it. Its called conversation. Your comment is beyond stupid. You sum people up in a couple of lines like you know anything about them. You are being holier than thou in every post you make. You are assigning meaning to my words that wasn't there, making continued assumptions and additions to support your own point of view. I don't know anyone's state of consciousness from a forum post. You seem to in your own arrogance feel free to sit there in judgment insulting people for your own amusement. What does that say about you?

How can I put it into clearer terms. Its like I would have to be putting myself down or think one part of me was superior to the other. Everything is a link in chain for everything else. Everyone's perspective here is necessary, There isn't one wasted or meaningless view given. There is no hierarchy, no superiority. No matter how much I hate/love them or am triggered/supported by them outwardly, Every judgement, every insult, every friendly comment or bit of support. I understand every single thing I see, hear or view is part of the whole.

Wow. Nowhere did the post say that at all. Nor would I ever say to anyone, because I am referencing parts of myself when I do so. People are complicated and there is no easy way to sum them up in a few sentences. Whenever I do that I am hating on parts of myself or the reactions I have. My post was an attempt in simple terms to stay out of saying trump is good or bad for once, and point people generally to look at the trump aspect in themselves, or what he represents in the collective as a whole. I understand this is incredibly difficult for people, thankfully I have some distance to it, not living with it only the after-effects. Whatever I triggered in you I apologize but take a look at yourself before lashing out.

Welcome! @Micca Yes that's what a lot of music is about. A lot of the time i'd break it down to: Finding an identity. Hope, when you are younger and hear yourself in song it validates some of your life experiences. Breaking the status quo or convention, which music does in its continued evolution, but there are big jumps sometimes when new genres come into fashion. These new genres bring new fashions, behaviors, a new feel to the music, a new group identity that people seek out. It feels good when you have things in common that you enjoy with a large group of people. Fun when fun is needed. Breaking down of class divides, or other identities to have a common ground. Here are some documentaries. Before punk we had the Mods Culture which I know very little about, before them there were the rockers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_(subculture) Here are two Rave Documentaries. This first one is excellent. Acid House, these videos talk about giving people an identity and fun in a time without much fun. They mentions it being a product of thatcher's culture and the way she changed the culture to be more capitalist, but at the same time still being based around rebellion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_house After raves and acid house had passed. There were various evolutions of house music, I can't remember all the genre names. Back to basics was a night run in Leeds and a few other places. Never any trouble, great time. In early 2000's it was the cutting edge of music, and if you are studying music history, in the late 90's early 2000's for England when the races too were broken up by police, it's the thing to name for house music. Hope it gives you some breadcrumbs to follow or adds some context. All the best.

Mine was not a value judgment post. 1) You frame it this way because you are categorizing you and trump as just two separate entities, rather than you reacting to yourself, and the meaning/emotion you assign to the words you hear and actions you see. 2) Having an emotional or intellectual reaction doesn't mean your reaction was not beneficial/appropriate for you personally, or a wider collective. If you want me to add labels, it doesn't mean to say a reaction is good/bad, helpful/unhelpful etc only that you are having it. This can come from unrealized parts of yourself but it can also come from parts you are aware of to some degree, often there is more there to see/feel/understand, which is why we are experiencing a situation. Life doesn't tend to put things in front of us that are unhelpful to our development, even if we really hate them. If I were to question your experience of it, I would be falling into the trap I spoke of. I can only show you that all reactions, come from you, no matter what anyone does, all of it is from you.

40 Degrees at most times in england is simply going to be death on a large scale due to humidity. There is no other way to put it. This was not because it was dry African air. *When I say large scale I mean a % of the population for clarity.

Yes but the last bit is our job . Don't put conditions on it, just love yourself. Say you love yourself over and over in your room until you cry. Get comfortable with it, find reasons why you love yourself, dwell on them, feel them. I'll give you one, you were brave enough to come on a forum in front of strangers and bare your soul, and be vulnerable. That's something to love about yourself. I've failed many times because I didn't know myself and the patterns I was in. I am not shy, I am too loud and still failed. Some guys like shy girls. Some girls like loud or forward guys, some don't. I used to go into relationships wanting to be the person who supported the other, that was my pattern I would be there for them, want to help them out, almost act as their therapist and when they were really comfortable, and things were going great I didn't feel needed or useful. I share this because you might have a pattern in you where it ends up putting distance between you and them, if its repeating a lot. Maybe detail how the break-up happens if you are feeling brave, even just to yourself, try and find common ground between the different breakups rather than just feeling hopeless. Sorry I was a bit harsh there, even when I read it to myself after I typed it. I understand why you would feel you lost. You did. You are irreplaceable to any relationship you are in. It can't work without you. It doesn't exist without you. You can never reach into someone and put yourself there. Its going to be what you are together, and what you build or do together. The relating and connecting the two of you have, that's what people fall in love with, what you share together.

Ask where a lot of spiritual communities are living. You'll at least be hitting turquoise for some of the individuals in the area (for some areas of their lives). I used to like to ask where is the most spiritual city or area that you are aware of is, to people on spiritual forums. The pitfall is you might get directed to a purple consciousness or something mimicking it. Just put yourself around a lot of spiritual groups, attend a few of them and see if you find a match. I found some of the most caring beautiful people in these groups and reflecting that back was beautiful in itself. Never regretted a single hour spent. You'll certainly make some connections and find ideas about where conscious communities live.

Seek it and don't give up. No matter how many difficult trials and experiences you have to go through. No matter how many deaths of the ego or parts of yourself that are required. If you have that much will, the answers will find you :D, whether you'll accept them will determine how awake you become. You are seeing/feeling/experiencing yourself every day. Used to be this question I would not answer, because it will bias you, and the second I did that it limits you. You are infinity how you remember who/what you are, will be entirely for you to find. All we can do is give you our experience.

Do you love yourself? If people are not loving you, it could be a direct reflection of you not loving yourself. Can't you do both? You are thinking of it like one needs to lose for the other to gain, this is limited way of looking at the time you spend together as a couple. Life can be many things at once. Even just using the word value, I would not pick that. It sounds like an exchange, rather than the meaningful relationship part of you is seeking, almost like you have two principles in conflict. If you want people to love you, don't put a value on yourself. Don't think in those limiting terms. Really learn to love yourself, who you are with and both you of you together as a couple. Think of the word us, rather than you and him. You didn't suffer a loss, your relationship did, both of you together.

How much we focus on conclusions rather than experience shapes it as either a T2 or T1 discussion. It's also worth remembering that when someone is angry at something they see on an ongoing basis, let's say you see someone repeatedly hating on JP or Trump for a particular issue, it is often part of themselves they are experiencing. Experience, unless it's something you experienced with them, is very difficult and unhelpful to question. You can point people at it but beyond that it's not going to help much. While conclusions and their formed beliefs can always be looked at.

Yes these are people that not only lack the understanding of humidity's relationship with temperature but also lack the ability to press play on this link for example: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/decadaltemp.php We can't expect news readers to understand the mechanics of it all but we can't expect them to understand the above, and also things like tipping points as talking points for the news. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/12/climate-tipping-points-earth/ Because these things can be studied in 5 minutes. It literally takes less than that for a child to click the first link and see the temperature rising.

Its easier to vote for the wildcard or the different candidate when there is a high level of dissatisfaction, however that dissatisfaction comes about, whether its internal or external factors isn't my point. You need to be grounded enough in yourself and your understanding of life not to react like that, especially when you are angry with the current circumstances and looking to express that. We obviously had Boris Johnson who despite acting the fool often enough was educated, but he used the characterization of a joker, or wildcard etc at first to get that dissatisfied vote. Its also helpful in dismissing some mistakes, because people expect a person playing the joker or even just 'one of the lads' to make mistakes. Its probably why he thought he was above the rules. Joe Rogan also uses the everyday man identity to allow for a lot of leeway. What Trump's opponents in both parties can do is play the we are not Trump Role :D. They can say they are serious, not a joker or wildcard, they are proven or established in their roles, or they mean business. Which I think is contrast enough to win out this time, but it's close enough that I wouldn't call it yet. Elections are all about image for the crowd and behind that pleasing the billionaires anyway. I am no big Trump fan obviously but Peterson didn't say too much here that I take issue with, apart from the stupidity on Trump's anti-war stance, which the world almost had a major war from the assassination incident, but believe it or not Russia flew around every country to settle it down. Also his continued ham-fisted way he describes the left is always amusing, there are so many different viewpoints on the left, that any time a right-winger sums them up it shows how little they understand their political opponents. That said skeptical of big yes, a perfectly put point. He's 100% right that democrats bought into culture war fully, at the expense of everything else. I also see almost all politicians as being liars by the necessity for their careers, I don't think less of Trump for that than any of them.

Clear communication and intent is a huge part of any relationship with anyone. If a woman is able to do that before they even know who I am, that's a big plus.

People in states of pure love still stray into judgment, then they become the judgment or reflection. It is the path to enlightenment but its got great big potholes in it. You essentially attract all unloved parts of yourself like a magnet that is impossible to ignore. Good luck its a noble and beautiful pursuit. I will watch that video when I am in the right frame of mind, not right now (too much judgment being reflected elsewhere )

For people to better understand the relationship of humidity to temperature https://i1.wp.com/gardendrum.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/HeatIndex.jpg Annually we average around 70-90% Humidity in the UK. So at the low end of 70 we can take 36 degrees C, 96 F on the high end 32 C and 89 F before suffering extremely dangerous weather. So all I can say is thankfully the humidity was never dangerous for long, because this was air from Africa, only as the cloud came back over did it become significantly more dangerous for a time. At least for those not working or moving around in direct sunlight, or the weak/elderly, which of course 40 degrees needs some precautions for regardless. https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/United-Kingdom/humidity-annual.php Here are the effects and relationship explained in even more depth. https://www.weather.gov/arx/heat_index This is also why people mock england's temperatures both in summer and winter, then get here and realise its colder/hotter than they expect, as the usual moisture content of the air makes a big difference. Then they realise why english people speak about the weather a lot even if it only changes a small amount of degrees here or there because the effects are more pronounced.

Very much so. That was the flaw of the 2000 era thinking. People don't believe that as a majority in the west anymore, despite what certain groups still think. It also means: As you conclude, the only way to reform Iraq is by its local populations and their immediate neighbors doing so in a way that works for them. The reaction to western interference in Iraq is incredibly hostile, and with good reason, so I wouldn't expect (want or hope) for any foreign savior. China might, but then you'd have an entirely different set of problems, because you are Iraq, not China or the US. That doesn't cut off foreign aid, investment etc, once you define what type you are looking for, and if it exists. As you say countries only tend to assist others that share common values with them, or at the very least are unfriendly to their rivals.