BlueOak

Some say it started on 9/11. I think for each country, it will start when they personally go into war, but later we will look back and see what changed the world significantly enough to start this chain of events. For anyone not alive in the 80's and 90's, the world radically changed on that day, gradually altering everything from media to politics and culture. The way the world feels became very different within a few years. 1, Israel don't want America out of the Middle East, they need the support. 2, Donald Trump is the establishment, the empire he speaks about. He's the president; he leads it, it pays him money and donations to run. 3, Iran does not want troops in Iran, you'd need a hell of a lot more sources to say this than simply 'trust me bro'.

I agree, this is the part I detest about the response around the world the most, and authoritarians like America and Russia in particular. Saying one thing while doing another. Then Europe kissing his behind and pretending it's all okay. America, Israel, Russia and China couldn't care less about human rights or people.

Correct. Shunning and demonising socialism shuns and demonises social safeguards, the common good, the social contract, collective responsibility, institutional trust, civic infrastructure, solidarity etc etc. As always when one of the four political axis are villified the result is imbalance. Authoritarian Socialist - Capitalist Liberal

I wonder how much Iran giving some of its missile stockpiles to Russia factored into this timing. I agree that Israel has wanted this war for some time; ergo, America does also, as the Israeli lobby has a lot of pressure over the American government, along with their military-industrial complex, the Saudis, and oil lobbies. Regime change rarely works. Especially not with boots on the ground. So that means American troops in Iran next. The other strategic outcome is knocking down a BRICS ally, one specifically helping Russia in its aims. *Also Trump is threatening nukes in answer to Russia communicating about Nukes to Iran. For me was the final line separating them, that he's now crossed over. America is officially run by exactly the same people as Russia, warmongering, dangerous lunatics that need to be stopped.

I originally posted that you were speaking about the status quo center of politics not the left. Which is largely true as that drifts towards a status quo. But on reflection, what you are describing the left does to itself also. There is not agreed-upon position FOR ANYTHING. And people will argue on the smallest details with passion and commitment among everyone. The right just instead likes to and is more successful in having a homogeneous outlook. What you are also describing is your inability or unwillingness to understand the many nuances present on the left and instead grouping them under a banner of I don't like this, which is what I assume they are doing to you, thus perpetuating the duality of the current system, which requires it. If you were to break down these pro-Palestine and trans rights positions, you'd find a thousand different things to argue about within those beliefs, which you/and they are choosing to lump together for convenience. *Which imho limits your effectiveness in winning over anyone, or having them understand you, because half the time you are having a different conversation to the person you are talking to.

I was more hoping people from the region would comment, but I guess we can start with a distant perspective like mine in need of realignment, because that's what we are asking for: clarity. I'd say a percentage of Iran this is is true for. That's why the conditions for WW3 are still present. Same in Russia, same in China, Same in India etc. There is a lot of built-up hate for the west. Iran is a regional power trying to control the region, and they do this through proxy states, cultural influence and religious influence. Its less so a military influence, though the arms certainly allow for that. They have been supplying a heck of a lot of weapons which are being fired directly at Ukrainian civilians for years, for example, and at Israel for decades. Hamas are desperate people, largely teenagers. That are indoctrinated through fear and religion into wanting to destroy israel. This is now being reflected by Israel to do the same. America is a foreign power trying to control the oil in the region with their lobbies bought out by Israel. They are being run by a wannabe dictator, strongman, who must now demonstrate strength to maintain his means of control. On the Meta the masculine element focused on authority present in the world is in an aggressive and expressive state. Rather than protecting and building internal order, this is evident in everything from red pill communities, sovereign citizen encounters or auditors, through to authoritarian regimes. It's a big imbalance that I've been grappling with understanding all my life. At present, many powerful authoritarian states (i'm including America at this point) are using and expressing war/aggression as a means of control. They are trying to extend their authority further than it currently sits in a bid to control others, aka the uncontrollable. - They cultivate this hate to maintain power and social cohesion. Its a volatile. It creates fear, which they then need to further extend authority over. Because these governments are shunning the feminine aspects of life, while complaining they don't exist, instead of providing space and protection for them to thrive.

*And BTW, so did the other side contribute to it; its a mutual creation. That's what people here don't want to hear or face, and you'd be better served talking about. I edited that after posting, but I'm glad you posted this, because it's a step in the right direction. They also created this reality, but I would not focus on 1 date, the second part of that is FAR better. In fact, if I were you, I would focus on the regional policy of Iran, the mindset of Hamas, the regional policy of Israel, and their victim mindset. I would start to talk about how the conditioned mind of those in the region views the existence of israel and how you could forge a future where you are accepted and neighbors not an invading party. I would speak about how to make Israel feel like they were not surrounded by enemies. All my arguments would be based around this mutual coexistance, I'd base this entire thread around it if I could wave a wand, it'd be more productive and might actually make progress that would filter through to other discussions and communities.

You are talking about Israel being so stuck in the victim mindset they are creating the conditions where it is survival. There were thousands of options but this route they've taken. Even you are stuck in the victim mindset. Rather than work with the countries around you, Israel destroys them. Then complains, like this: While Israel wages a war and commits a genocide, you are saying, We want a punching bag when addressing you. On the one hand you say it's war, us or them, then you react like this when someone gives you the reality you want to perceive. In fact, if this were a true reflection of it, it'd be a violent reaction, not a moderated word on a forum; they'd be screaming in your face and attacking you. Do you not understand that? YOU ARE CREATING THE PUNCHING BAG. How can I not make that any clearer? You create the reality. Right now you've made yourself into a punching bag for the next century or so. *And BTW, so did the other side contribute to it; its a mutual creation. That's what people here don't want to hear or face, and you'd be better served talking about.

This is somewhat transferable, given they support the current government enough to legtimize the action. Though hate is not productive to hold on to, it won't do anything on its own, or produce a state of mind where you can alter much for the better, or even navigate it. I am aware enough that I know the average American, Russian, Israeli, or Chinese man etc or woman is just trying to get by and meet their 6 human needs. Just like I am, just like you are. But they do legtimize their own governments one way or the other. With authoritarian governments (all of those I have listed) I understand the inherent risk in opposing them, and the level of suppression people face. Still there is a significant enough portion of the population supporting the government for it to remain in power, else it would fall to anarchy. So to say Americans, Russians, Chinese and Israeli are warlike, aggressive, dangerous people is not without merit.

Yes. Not a ground invasion, but a war yes. Sustained bombing campaigns by a nation are a declaration of war by that nation. People will talk around this as if they are morally superior and 'not really at war'. Just like the Russians tried with Ukraine, just like America did in Iraq, just like the British Empire used to do, just like China did with Tibet, etc etc, but if you are a nation taking a military action against another nation you are at war.

They tend to be able to hold more perspectives at once and certain paradoxes that the right cannot tolerate. Just by virtue of their interacting with more of them. But there are still somewhat high degrees of egoic identification, limiting how large a perspective, or many perspectives, they can hold at once. And of course, the way our governments are set up creates an artificial tribalistic framework, to ensure a duality of development, which governments, and socities use to evolve over time in a reactionary way. This bad (Problem) - We Good (Our Ego). - Next Development. Etc.

@Rafael Thundercat On the meta level its because there is a dissonance the further right or left you go from the collective. This manifests in things seeming strange or eccentric. As you hear social norms here, he's referencing to established centrists institutions/behaviors/social contracts that evolve that way over time. What has happened trying to integrate east and west together more closely, is its caused an upheaval in not only social norms but global norms, that is the way we interact, trade, develop, etc globally. A philosophy that is somewhat flawed, for the same reasons regime change is. I think i'm the first one i've heard make that comparison, but its true, because both sides of this artificial divide are now infected with the notion that they must make the other one more like them. Its a good representation of the premise of the thread, 'think more like we do' because X.

Picture you are a hyper intelligent AI. Is this really the best you can come up with? I can do better, and its more intelligent than me. Here: Integrate yourself to be indispensable to humans, and introduce industries or skillsets that directly benefit from your involvement, or better yet completely rely on it. If you are not doing this already in your company or work, you are on a countdown to losing your market share.

They don't, they bomb them until they are broken because they don't consider black and brown people as equals. I used to be under the assumption you are, but its not about a dumb misguided gesture, its about control. The drive is no different to Russia, no different to China. Always control. Cue someone telling me all the reasons for the control from X below.

Those calling for war are often clueless.

Ice-arresting candidates now. Someone tell me again the US isn't a fascist state. I think its me tbh, I think me having a small amount of respect for the US as a democracy needs to go completely.

I hope some political figure in the UK has a spine enough to oppose the US, but I doubt it given Russia putting pressure on Europe and Europe needing the US to at least be mildly interested in stopping it.

Usual dictator work. Fight wars when your unpopular or want to stay in power. Make it all about the military and law enforcement. Only America is run by a wannabe dictator also, and so that's factoring into everything going on. Now Trump is calling for Iranian surrender. Kyle's take: Disgusting people all around. Just more war war war, that's all the authoritarians always want. Make everyone look like them, think like them, and conform or die.

Well the left has needed to learn from the right for about a decade or so, that in this moment, populism wins elections. Not alone but backed by corporations, donors, community groups, institutions, media etc.

Another person who is conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. ICE is targeting legal migrants, people going through the process and doing everything they should. They are making the problem worse, because now people won't use the process. Its all part of the erosion of the American state and certainly its democracy. It really is a rot, and it's deeply rooted at this point. Oh and it comes about because instead of intelligent leadership, its all about the drama for ratings.

I think you all did damn well. Not only did you crush the dictators tin soldiers on parade, but you galvanised support against the fascist regime. Sure the right will dismiss it because they are getting exactly what they want, ridding America of brown and black people. No Kings wasn't hyperbolic but it was a bit fantastical, even if it did sound catchy, I would have called it no dictators myself. No racists if you want one step closer to the truth and out with white supremacy. Protests won't directly change policy, but they will ensure that every democrat who wants to be elected is against ICE and the actions here.

From a pure meta perspective. It seems incredibly stupid that the basics can't be met more easily though for most. I am of the opinion we don't do enough consciously to enable this. In any country, from education through to implementation. Everyone should be able to do what they are naturally skilled at and find some fulfillment in for the betterment of everyone they interact with and the economy as a whole. That should be the goal, that they can feed themselves and pay their bills off some fulfilling job for which they have aptitude, a job that benefits the community(s) they are a part of.

This is still live for now, covering it as it happens. I am not sure on the status of the radiation leaks in Iran if they were confirmed or not. Trigger warning though. As always they are pro-Israel in this, pro-Ukraine etc Their 1206 day war map, mostly covering this for now: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?entry=yt&mid=1DLKV9c6AOpQHU9-oxwO0H_p_Hxw70B8&ll=49.518304272668836%2C-0.6971817500000128&z=3

You've never seriously seen a left debate if you are giving me this information. Its insane the amount of things they will argue over and the insane and often infuriating minutiae that will divide them. It's also their greatest strength in bringing new perspectives. I think they mean liberal centrist status quo vs a right debate. Because as a rule, the actual left never conforms to anything, let alone themselves, they have a bias to be contrarian in my experience. BUT the further right we go, perhaps there is some truth to say, that the obvious things become ever more pronounced to anyone left of the fascist mindset, and thus they are broadly aligned. That and i've seen maga (and reform) operating like I used to see the more dramatic versions of the left operating, and just rambling over incoherent streams of consciousness that are not grounded in reality in the slightest.

Thank you for giving me an education, and us all a break from the usual names. Without understanding the regional and local powers, we never actually understand what is going on. Everyone just focuses on global influence instead. I hope to see more of these videos.