bloomer

You either mog or are the one being mogged It's a mog or be mogged world Learning to fight and have a tantrum over being mogged because some girl doesn't want to fuck you is just sad to me. But men have been fighting over women for all of human history. That will always be the case. That's why wars are fought and men killed really. Men protecting their women or taking other men's women. The only real anti mog tactic is to mog your opponent. Or suffer the fate of the moggie.

@SonataAllegro Can you please explain that scale? I experience all those states occasionally.

@Forza21 Idk if it's normal but I have been there and am still there as well. If its a product of me experimenting with lsd or something else I'm not sure. But I do have an apathy because I realize the absurdity of life, my life and others. Being so caught up in this game and forgetting that it is just a game, life is not supposed to be lived seriously. All of these are petty and egoic. But they're also base drives. I still have them but I question my own desire to have them. So what ends up happening is I cease to have the motive to pursue them because I see them as really absurd petty things. I don't feel horrible either but neither do I feel any motivation to do anything like you. @Chris365 That's a really good and interesting point that I haven't though about enough. Which makes total sense. Clearly I haven't transcended having an ego. Like Forza I found that insightful so thanks.

@Salvijus People aren't just figments of your imagination and not everything is a social construct. Sex is a very real thing not nothing lol. @Knowledge Hoarder I think what salv was saying was non seniscal to. I get his/her point about social conditioning but there is a line between the social and the biological. Caring about other people isn't just social, it does have a biological component to it. It's shown that you only get 25% of the pleasure from masturbation compared to sex. Sex is a physical act as well as intimacy. It's about touch, smell, pheromones, eye contact, all these visceral biological pieces that actually do in fact matter. I suppose coming from someone whose a sexual or has a very low sex drive they can't really relate to that.

@Salvijus No arguments to back up the statement that the absence of sexual experiences is painful? lol

@Salvijus Everyone is birthed because two people fucked. The Darwinian process selects every single human and animal trait based on who does and who doesn't breed. So every single instinct is a product of that process. Yes, especially if you're a man because men have far higher sex drives than women that women cannot comprehend. There's a psychological pain as well as a physiological one. That's a small part of the problem. It's not just about peer pressure lol. No the pain is different because it is the deprivation of fundamental instinct that governs all other instincts. Akin to a hunger and a psychological hunger. See this Orwell quote.

@somegirl Most people don't give a shit that you're upset with them. If you tell them you are they'll take that as an insult and not want to listen to you or be around you. Because most people don't care about your feelings especially when those feelings come across as an insult.

@Salvijus It’s only natural to feel bad. Sex is the reason we all exist and are here to exist. Missing out on the point of existence (if there is any) is pretty bad in my opinion. Also what @Terell Kirby said

@Leo Gura So you’re saying I’m more hardcore than you for drinking booze rather than taking dmt? Thanks for the ego boost lol @eTorro Good luck mate. Many are in the same boat as you.

@Rilles Damn, I wish I could get to the level of game where earthly pussy doesn’t do it for me anymore. Instead I have to travel into the fifth dimension to continue my escapades.

@Leo Gura Who were you trying to fuck? Clockwork elves. Some interdimensional pussy must be nice.

@Leo Gura Maybe I’m a pussy but saying goofy shit to women when you’re as socially retarded as me sounds like playing with fire. Throwing and catching flaming sticks doesn’t sound like my idea of fun. Maybe that’s best. I struggle with even doing that lol. Cause I’m a lazy unfunny fuck. Also the fire thing

@Leo Gura Just goes to show that no matter what the idea is, some other fucker has had it before and done it. Even if that fucker is a turtle. Bowser must be getting a lot of pussy.

@Fredodoow Zappa once said

@aurum Shit lol. What if they're all negative? @Leo Gura This is my only hope. I'm going to start setting some banana peel traps.

@Leo Gura That’s the thing though. You’re socially calibrated and can get away with saying that goofy stuff. I tried any of those lines I’d be another Jamie Griffiths. Also the be a man stuff is just machismo bullshit. I can go up and say that shit to a woman but it won’t stick because I have the fear in the eyes and voice. I’ll stop consuming the fear porn sure but if I end up like Jamie here don’t label me as the bad guy for trying lol. But I’ll make sure not to ever touch a woman unlike that idiot. Treat them like radioactive isotopes.

@Leo Gura What if I end up like this guy?

@Emotionalmosquito I didn't choose to be here and I feel constantly gaslit. It makes me very jaded and resentful. I'm missing out on all the life experiences and pleasures other people seem to get naturally with no effort and for some reason things just went wrong in my life. People who I get close to betray me and all the experiences I've had with women have been negative. I had sexually active friends before, they constantly rubbed my nose in it. It seems as if every waking moment is a reminder of how I am not having sex lol. But I don't even have the right to bitter and resentful. I'm the villain and it's all my fault. It drives me crazy.

Virgin loser here, 21 year old guy, never been on a date, never had a girl friend, never kissed a girl, never held a girls hand, never held/hugged a girl, never had a girl show me any sort of affection. Listened to Part 1 and Part 2. About to embark on the long journey of listening to the third video now. So I have specific questions about some of the ideas in the videos. I know there's the mega discussion thread on this topic. I will post there as well but I don't want to completely derail the thread with my questions and tangents which is why I've made a separate topic here. Hope that's okay. So I have made a bunch of notes and appreciate Leo and you all talk about this topic because I have found the videos insightful. Warning this is going to be a long thread. So Leo makes a list of reasons as to why you aren't getting laid. 1. Not being social enough How many girls do I meet and talk to a week? Fuck all. I know I need to change my lifestyle. I'm living a very anti-social life. Leo mentions that the pain of being anti-social needs to become more painful than the pain of being social to get me out of my house and into the real world. I think for so long since youth pretty much, never really had friends in high school, I've been alone and struggle to talk with people. I don't know how to go from 0 and to just throw myself out into the world with no experience and no skills. So how do I get out and meet women and girls without being seen as a total creepy weirdo? 2. You're not going out Again, same thing pretty much. I spend all day at home. I need to get the fuck out the house and try to talk to people but I'm completely socially retarded. 3. Not approaching "Even if you come into contact with women when going out you're not approaching." Yeah I wouldn't even know how to go about that. I've never approached a girl and never really even been around women. The idea of going up to some girl and starting some conversation without me being expressing interest in her is alien enough. 4. No flirting skills "Not communicating with women in a romantic flirty way but as a logical friendly business man sort of way." I'm a very logically minded guy. My parents and others have worried that I might be on the spectrum but I don't want to know honestly because if I am I might just give up hope. 5. Not sure what attracts women Here's Leos list of what does and doesn't attract women. Women are attracted to "masculine energy". Strength, confidence, charisma, humour, cocky, funny, wit, fun, adventurous , playfulness and even drama. Take a woman through an emotional rollercoaster with lots of ups and downs. Women like strong personalities and men with passion. A man who expresses himself in a unpremeditated sort of way and exhibits a strong personality authentically. Regardless of the personality. High or low energy, doesn't matter. Just express your personality strongly and assertively and don't hold back. Never be vanilla. Women want deep intimacy. Women love balls, edgy and boldness. Women are obsessed and very attracted to celebrity, social approval, high status. Attracted to guys who have a life purpose more important than them. Moment you put her above your mission you lose. Women love strong eye contact. Women like guys who are fit, well dressed, well-groomed and smell nice. The number one thing that propels women is neediness and desperation. Don't put her on a pedestal and treating her like a qween. Don't be too nice to her. Fear, insecurity, lack of balls and shyness. Women hate men who are immediately sexually vulgar. Fake machismo or strength, much better admitting a weakness than faking a strength. Women are good bullshit detectors. Don't try to be gamey or fake, it's unnatural. Be authentic. Don't brag about yourself, never brag about yourself. It makes it seem like you're trying to impress. Do the opposite (not serious self-deprecation that makes you seem like a loser), make it look like you don't give a fuck. Women don't like boring logical talk or serious guys. Don't be business like with girls you're trying to date. Never force a woman to lead, never ask her where to go or for her to lead. Don’t be creepy ever. Game is all about being smooth and not creepy. Don't put women in a position where she feels awkward. So of the positives to attract women, I guess I'm not really vanilla maybe??? I hope I'd be capable of deep intimacy whatever that means but I doubt it. I'm pretty fit and do a lot of running and lifting but it hasn't helped me. I do dress well and groom. As for the negatives probably shyness and insecurity. I'm not a sexually obsessed or vulgar person. I don't try to bullshit people so that's a good thing. Nor do I brag. But I definitely am the logically spergy kind of guy. 100% if I was to approach a woman I'd end up putting her and myself in a position where we both feel awkward which is why I avoid doing it because I don't want to creep out or make someone else feel awkward. That and I'm a pussy lol. I know you might not care about me personally and my circumstances but I thought if anyone can offer tailored advice based on my traits that could be helpful that would be appreciated. Which is why I bothered saying them. 6. Insecurity complex "Have a victim mindset and think you're ugly etc… That gets communicated to women. If you have this mindset you can't escape. You think, what's the point of even trying and approaching women when I already know they're going to reject me? It's a self-fulfilling you process. Or another problem is thinking that you're not good enough and put women on a pedestal. In part you're not entitled enough. You think you don't deserve attractive women." "I'm too fat, I'm too short, I'm too ugly yadda yadda. Is it because you're short that you're getting laid, or the fact that you're insecure in the fact that you're short and that prevents you. How would you know the difference?" I wouldn't know the difference. But here's where I do go into the incel lookism stuff. In the video Leo mentions that on dating apps it's 90% about looks. That looks are how women judge you and if you don't have the looks you're going to get rejected. Well tinder and dating apps are the real world. Most people today meet of tinder and similar dating apps like bumble etc... So the fact that they have that preference for looks on these apps, why doesn't that also translate into real life? Doesn't that just reveal what women want when they can have it? 7. Not willing to work on yourself "On the other hand you have an entitlement mentality that you shouldn't have to change to get am attractive women. You believe hot women should like you naturally. The slob, immature boy that you are. Rather than working on yourself." At this point I don't really think I or anyone else for that matter deserves anything. Life isn't fair, some people have rich love lives and get everything, several women a day, and are born handsome, tall, good looking and grow up without constant adulation to become charismatic and self assured. Others are born ugly, short, bad looking and grow up with constant rejection and hostility and become isolated and self loathing stuck with masturbation and a computer screen. That aside I do work on myself, I run three miles a day. I work out several times a week. I read a lot, I play guitar. I'm starting to meditate. So what? I don't think women are after some guy whose this self improver. Plenty of women lust after immature boys or even scumbags because they have what I don't. I don't believe hot women should like me for me. I'm just embittered by the fact that no women like me and I don't think I'm a bad guy. When their are plenty of others guys who have far more than I ever will and didn't have to put any effort into getting it. 8. Paralysis analysis "Stuck getting caught in what to do rather than doing anything. Don't think it's too late to start." The fact that I'm not social and not good with women isn't going to solve itself. I need to put in more work obviously. I know that. Writing all this has just made me realize that I'm in paralysis. But I'd rather putting into words what's in my own head and have you guys judge it than leave them there hidden away doing damage without me knowing about them. So in the end Leo gives five steps to getting laid. Well he said he gave five but I think he got lost on a rant and only really gave three. Unless I wasn't paying attention. 1. Envision yourself getting laid and getting cute girls 2. Study the principles of attraction 3. Go out and socialise every week At this point I don't even know what getting affection or girls would look like so it's a bit hard to imagine. I guess I'm studying the principles of attraction now? Again I don't really know how to get out and socialise. One thing that I did find tremendously helpful and made me feel better about myself was though the question. "I'm too fat, I'm too short, I'm too ugly yadda yadda. Is it because you're short that you're getting laid, or the fact that you're insecure in the fact that you're short and that prevents you. How would you know the difference?" Maybe that is true. Also the simple fact that the number one problem is you're not being social enough and that much is clearly true. I'll make another post on the second video in a minute. If anyone has any advice from what I've wrote here it would be appreciated.

@Javfly33 Weak coomer shit. You make me sick. Step up your game. Otherwise painhub awaits you.

@Emotionalmosquito No I'll stick to drinking thank you. Otherwise I wouldn't even try to talk to them. I'm gonna stick to drinking and when I get more comfortable pull back a little. @Raze Damn thanks for the link. I'll watch it. @Emotionalmosquito You can still convey your genuine emotions sarcastically or in a jokey way. Most of the time anyway I'm in a shit mood and want to be left alone. I don't know how I'm supposed to build state. The idea of rejections fueling me. No it'll just make me want to fucking shut my mouth and be by myself drinking by myself. I don't get that at all. How is a rejection motivating?

I hate this thread and how much attention it's got, and here I am giving it more. Let it die. The person who made this thread couldn't even bother to write the fucking title properly. Such a low quality whiny post about word policing other peoples words over something as innocuous as the word "girls". The fact that this has gathered this much attention on this forum makes me question all your smarts.

No Nut November report: So I passed NNN. But I looked at porn a few times but didn't bother to masturbate. It's because I had sexual cravings and thoughts. Just wanted to see a naked woman and sex. Didn't masturbate and I spent like an hour a few times just watching porn which is a bit mental. Had I not being doing not nut I would have spent much less time viewing porn. So ironically doing NNN lead to me watching more porn not less. Which is of course bad. I hope this month I can avoid porn and any masturbation entirely. The justification I used when viewing porn was that I'm breaking the automatic switch to seeing pornography to masturbate. It does actually require a lot of discipline to watch porn and not masturbate for an hour plus. Quite painful actually but I still was hooked by porn just it's self. The act of viewing is in it of itself a pleasurable experience. Like eating junk food. But without masturbation you never get full, you can just eat and eat and eat. The hit of prolactin achieved by orgasm temporarily kills your sex drive. Since I never had that hit I just continued watching. This left me in a sexual frustrated mess. One night I couldn't sleep because I gave myself blue balls. This is how sick my dependency on pornography and masturbation has become. Since I can't and have never had a woman to satiate those sexual impulses or really comfort me. It's made clear to me just how addictive porn is and how compelling it is. As for benefits I've experienced. I'm far more sexually frustrated. It's like this hunger and shame. The fact that I'm even here typing this makes me feel ashamed. I have a lot more shame after this challenge. Just seeing how much of a depraved monkey I am and how I've conditioned myself to get off to a screen and not a real living woman. Reading @Danioover9000 No Nut November report, I'm just going to use his as a comparion. I have more energy but can't use it because my mind is so dominated with sexual thoughts and cravings that I can't think straight. So no additional productivity and am more depressed. Definitely not. Just overall more sad. I think I'm more angry lol. So when I work out and lift I go harder than I would usually. Actually fucked up my back. Not sure if that's a result of NNN but I definitely have been more enraged this past month. As for sleep I haven't felt an improvement. Funny you said that cause I'm shivering rn as I'm typing this. Think it's because my room is cold as fuck and I'm only wearing a t shirt and shorts. Not really. It just seems like an arbitrary challenge. I'll be happy if I can do it this month without looking at porn. Ideally to beat that 90day challenge. I have more self control I think now. Nope I have no control over that energy. If I did have an outlet for it then maybe I would be capable of handling it. Well guess that's that.

@Preety_India Personally I think parents should always be held culpable in these situations. How can you be so willfully ignorant of your own child's psychosis and suffering? That negligence for years (because that's what it requires) should be criminal.

@Matt23 I don't the wording "interpersonal medicine". It's not what I would constitute a medicine like loneliness is a disease. Though I do like the epidemic analogy. You're not diseased, just circumstances in your life (if you're lonely) have led to you feeling disconnected and alone. You're not diseased because of that just like you're not diseased if you're hungry and in need of food. Connection shouldn't be framed as a medicine. It's not about how many people you know. It's about how many people you have a genuine heart felt connection with. You can feel completely alone in a crowd. Loneliness isn’t fixed by listening to other people talk. You can cure your loneliness only by doing the talking yourself and—most important— cure your loneliness only by doing the talking yourself and—most important— being heard. That's how you feel connected with people, when you feel heard by them. See picture below. 3/3