bloomer

@ValiantSalvatore Don't then lol. Stop caring about something you shouldn't care about by coming to the realization that it doesn't fucking matter. ? Alright good you're exercising then. Keep at it. Must have struck a nerve. Don't like my advice don't take it. There are other people on the forum you can listen too. Quite funny that you're dating then. Dating today = courtship = long term relationship. Other than that what do you want out of this relationship? Just to fuck her? If so why the bullet point list and all this thought?

@ValiantSalvatore That is the question, but what is the answer? Before you try looking for a long term relationship why don't you work on your depression and start exercising more. Ignore the "quality" of people at the gym. Who cares? I go to the gym I do what I need to do I come home. I don't stay around and chit chat. I know it can be tough to break out of a depression when you're lonely and have no meaningful relationships or community but sometimes you just have to push through.

@Raze I've added this to my watchlater and I will watch it tomorrow. It's late now but I'll check it out.

@NoSelfSelf Whose only focused on themselves? How can people say that you need to take initiative go out and ask girls out, cold approach and do all this shit then say you only need to focus on yourself and not care if you're alone or you don't get relationships or have a life. I've been focusing on myself and I don't have anything from it. I don't get it. Feels like gaslighting.

@Raze What's your "true self"?

Asked a girl out and she said yes. We exchanged numbers and I said I'd message her. I have a few worries. First, I'm a 21 year old guy and I've never been on a date before so advice needed, where do I go and what do I say? Second I have no social life, I never go out and have no stories, also I've never had any previous gf's. She obviously doesn't know this. So what if she asks any questions about my social life? I don't want to lie but it feels like I'm left with no choice.

@Danioover9000 Lots of notes. That other thread I linked is filled with them. Noted I mean I don't really have much reference on how to treat sexual interests. I mean it is somewhat similar right? How you would treat a friend and someone you're interested in. Never knew voice was so important but I'll practice with it ig. @Lyubov Thanks lyubov you're great.

@Raze I'll check it out @Salvijus Hey, what can I say? I'm a happy boy.

@Danioover9000 I don't have many tales mate but I'll puff myself up. I watched em all Thing is I don't want to over complicate things. There's far too much going on in those videos. All I'm going to do is meet up, talk about myself, ask her question, have a drink, if we physically escalate and schedule another date. If not I'm not going to worry about it. That's all I really need to know. I will do this. This is one of major issues. Which is when I found out she was interested in me I initially thought why? This kind of stuff doesn't happen to me etc... @Yarco I will treat her familiarly and like a friend that I can just physically escalate with. Also I will try being talkative although I'm really not. I don't really have any passions. @Emotionalmosquito I don't know I was thinking about it and I was honestly shitting myself when talking to her. I actually found out from a work colleague that she was interested in me. So I bite the bullet when I bumped into her swapping shifts and asked her if she wanted to hangout and do something sometime. I actually already had her number from the work group but I said I'd message her. What mood was I in? I just finished a long shift and hadn't eaten. After a while I become energized and from having to deal with so many people I just stop giving a shit. So I was energized I guess. I actually had my voice shake when speaking with her and was pondering not bothering asking her. Glad I did though.

@Terell Kirby I will set a date. Just wanted to post this thread first. I've messaged her and we've texted but I want some advice first.

@mememe Lol no, see meme

@Raptorsin7 I think I know how to be honest and be myself lol

@Terell Kirby No not yet. I'm just waiting with her number. We work together actually. I wouldn't have made this thread if I'd done that already. Could still happen ig. I'll try to do that. Feels like this date has a weight to it which I don't like. Makes me nervous. Man don't fucking tell me it'll be rough. Try to put me at ease a bit lol. @Leo Gura What's a good way to change the topic without letting her on to the fact that I'm hiding something? I don't really go out drinking. I've been to a bar by myself like twice this year. Should I go out and look for places that would make a good date before? I'll lead her anyway. Take her hand etc... The fact that she said that's she's interested in going on a date with me means she likes me enough. @JonasVE12 I won't. It is what it is. I can't change the past. I've resented myself for a while over it but if I bothered to divulge my life story to you guys it would make sense how I ended up where I am. You're right though Jonas. The biggest issue is that I dislike myself for where I am in life instead of owning my own shit and just moving on. I'm starting to do that now. Yeah I won't feel the need to lie because I'll be successful and normal. I won't lie here. As Leo said it's none of her business. We can just go out, have a few drinks and a good time. Nothing more to it. It isn't some interview or look into all my life. It's because I'm uncomfortable with my lack of dating experience and having no social life. Whenever I get close enough to mention this with people they think it's weird. I generally just blame covid lockdowns and there's some truth to that ruining what little I had of a social life. Damn, here I was reading that first half thinking "hey, maybe I have this energy with her" and then, POP, you burst my fucking bubble lol. You're right. I'm not even going to really look at it as a date. Just someone I'm hanging out with, trying to get to know and have a good time with. Even if she ends up rejecting me cause I'm not the person she thought I was, its still a good learning experience anyway. Also I'm not such a complete dolt that I'd fuck it up completely. Yeah I'll go out before the date and try to get into a more sociable mood. Not really one for cold approaching girls though.

@bejapuskas Yes funny.

@blessedlion1993 Honestly I don't blame you lol. I wrote a long ass essay that looks to have gone largely unread and it out of place in this thread. But just because someone disagrees with you doesn't equate to their brain being washed. I'm talking about Nietzsche's quote. That enlightenment values and the scientific process had killed underlying judeo christian values. Religion has been bastardized and largely secularized. People are far atheistic today in their world views and this leads to less shared values or morality. Which breaks a mans connection with the people around him and his obligation to serve them. I'm not being absolute in these statements. Of course some positive male role models exist. I'm just saying that laregly the culture doesn't push them to the forefront or necessarily promote them as much as they used to. You shouldn't have to go on a search for positive male role models. You should be inundated with them not just with celebrity icons but by the men in your own life. Check out what they're doing in China. https://www.voanews.com/a/china-tells-effeminate-male-celebrities-to-man-up-/6244721.html https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgx3nn/china-masculinity-sissy-stars lol move where? Everywhere is shit today but used to be better. That's my point. Not really many places I like. Also I don't believe in abandoning my country. It's not pouting to admit collectively men don't have a purpose or something they're striving for. Obviously individually you can create your own purpose.

Well I mentioned why I they're struggling in the other post but I'll add some more reasons. My main point was that the modern world is demoralizing the masculine spirit, this is both intentional and a natural result of industrialization and the convenience of modern life, which deprives man of any meaning and purpose. Masculinity is not useful or perceived as not useful, anymore, in wider society. Why? There’s no need for it anymore. "The gyms you go to are crowded with guys trying to look like men, as if being a man means looking the way a sculptor or art director says." Masculinity is not just something that you can commodify and sell, turn into some product. It's not what its sold to us as, with some celebrity footballer or actor, on some cologne advertisement, because masculinity is the antithesis of mindless consumption, the antithesis of the need to please and impress. These are feminine. Masculinity is not what contemporary culture portrays it as. The only reason we can afford to be so disconnected from the truth, is because life is so easy, it means we don’t see work as strenuous, or the world as unsafe, or war as a necessity, and so the implicitly violent and harsh realities of masculinity become something to cast off rather than to be appreciated. To commodify rather than to cherish. This casting off of masculinity is what books like Fight Club. "The System needs a population that is meek, nonviolent, domesticated, docile, and obedient. It needs to avoid any conflict or disruption that could interfere with the orderly functioning of the social machine. In addition to suppressing racial, ethnic, religious, and other group hostilities, it also has to suppress or harness for its own advantage all other tendencies that could lead to disruption or disorder, such as machismo, aggressive impulses, and any inclination to violence." - Ted Kaczynski We should retain the spirit of man that Ted intended to liberate. Well if you think about it, Ted and Tyler and very similar anarchistic firgures. Not saying I agree with Ted but I appreciate some of his points lol. Bombing unis is stupid and wrong. I'm not for fighting a futile battle. I instead believe that the best solution to revive the masculine spirit is to exploit the industrial and modern society for our own artistic and ideological desires. Since even in pre-industrial society we would not have wanted to submit to the feminized, academic and torpid hedonistic life. Speaking of the spirit of man, there is another good and pertinent Fight Club quote below that further explores this idea of what exactly the spirit of man is. "Disaster is a natural part of my evolution, towards tragedy and dissolution. I'm breaking my attachment to physical power and possessions, because only through destroying myself can I discover the greater power of my spirit. The liberator who destroys my property is fighting to save my spirit. The teacher who clears all possessions from my path will set me free." Struggle is vital for finding purpose and meaning in life. When deprived of real struggle, with the comfort of modern life, we atrophy and break down. AKA become feminized. One because we have no father guiding us and no shared values to shape us and two because of hedonism. By breaking our attachments with hedonism and with the need for escapism (which is a large part of self actualization) we can start to reclaim our masculinity. In our society tending toward automation, we begin to find the masculine traits that had previously served to enmesh men in specific kinds of physical labour a threat when undirected. A society valuing games and leisure begins to evolve. Ideally we would have found ourselves heading toward one based around physical games and outdoor activities, but instead, for whatever reason, we have chosen to become masters of virtual environments where these masculine traits are needed even less, or simply simulated when called upon. Society no longer values 4 important things required for letting masculinity flourish. 1. Religion 2. Family 3. Men 4. Culture We have no god. God is dead and all that jazz. We have no family. The family structure is under constant attack and is fucked, We have no positive male role models. We have no country. We have this entho masochistic worldview where the west is evil and the root of the worlds ills. We have no purpose, because we have none of the things that used to give us purpose. “We don’t have a great war in our generation, or a great depression, but we do, we have a great war of the spirit. We have a great revolution against the culture. The great depression is our lives. We have a spiritual depression." All of these are things that have historically driven men to accomplish great things and every single one has been taken from us. Men are becoming disillusioned from society for this reason. Because modern societies are dogshit. They're soulless. They're evil. Life is commodified. Modern society has no right to exist. You can intellectualize and philosophize ad nauseam but the answer is simple and obvious: if young men don't want to participate in your society, that's because your society is a failure, and needs to be demolished. Society has made it clear that men aren't wanted, and every attempt to make something of ourselves is met with contempt and ridicule. Every time we try to rise to the occasion, we are shot down or punished. The worst part however, is that even when you have attained something like a family or career, it can be taken away from you at any moment. Men have run the cost benefit analysis. Trying is a net loss. Not trying is net neutral. Being masculine is a loss. So men are fine with their beer and videogames. They don't even have the will to start creating a new paradigm and finding new meaning in industrialization and modernization, they stew in resentment -- a modern-day slave morality. Which is really just a result of escapism and those bread and circuses and the absence of a father guiding them. This stewing in resentment is the inevitable resulting mentality of the modern man, the reason you don't is again, to reclaim and re-establish the masculine spirit that gives meaning. Men, when fully realized, have an innate tendency towards independence and toward forming their own systems, which they then seek to impose on the world. This is the whole story of history until now. This is your Napoleons and Cesars and Charlemagnes, the men who shaped history, the Nietzchean ubermensches. Contemporary corporate capitalism however is a distributed, globalized, nonlocal system of conformist integration. It loathes anyone with the balls to contest it. Women have their qualities, and I do not intend to make this anymore misogynist than it needs to be lol. But they are more inclined to behave as integrated nodes in a harmonious network of community. How many female warlords has there been? And I don't mean to suggest that there should be warlords, or that men are not the most destructive sex. I just mean that sociobiologically men have a drive that women tend to lack. I don't know where I was going with this lol. Lost my point. Ahhh I'm too lazy and typing this up has started to bore me. 2/2 ps. I know this is long, didn't realise I had spent so much time writing which is why I stopped.

@Vivaldo You should read the book if you liked the movie. The film is an obvious example of a movie being better than a book but its still worth a read. But I messed around for a week and made a Fight Club documentary of sorts compiling a dozen videos and cutting them all together into a long analysis. If you liked the movie and are more interested in analysing you should check out what I made because it might interest you and took me a while to put together. "Existentialist moment, where you realize that you have to give your youth to something, you're not going to live forever. It's a very Martin Heidegger moment, you have to become a being living towards death, you're not going to live forever, you have to give your life to something." - Chuck Palahniuk Yeah Tyler Durden (the father figure) is a manifestation of the Jungian shadow. Jung also theorised that neurosis and mental illnesses are caused by repression and neglection of our values. Tyler Durden being the narrators compensation for his day life, of tedious misery and quit desperation. Working in an office where you are constantly aware of the passage of time, watching your life drift away from you. "…in offices where every day they felt their lives end one hour at a time." I believe that in a society where masculinity is repressed, and we are deprived of our fathers guidance, of a mentor, in a world of illusion, small things make a big difference. Well seemingly small things, but they amount to make quite large things, that weigh us down with the mundanity of life, a life where we are deprived of our natural desires, and punished for our natural instincts. That's modern society. When you feel things are "out of sync" these days, when you look at people who are miserable and unhappy and struggling desperately to find meaning in this world, when you ask what motivates the clown-world religious fervor. It stems from the reality that many people are no longer necessary to existence, and are clamoring frantically to justify their existence to an uncaring and amoral universe. Fight Club is about that, an how men, particularly a man, the narrator, or hero goes about trying to deal with it. To deal with his own mortality and lack of purpose. To try to find serenity. "If you're a male and you're Christian and living in America, your father is your model for god. And if you never knew your father, if your father bails out on you and is never home, what do you believe about god? What you end up doing, is you spend your life searching for a father and God." You see, if you grow up in a Western country today, and probably others too although I can’t speak to those (some Asian countries seem to not be included) you grow up with basically no expectations for you, your life, or how you spend your precious moments. Your parents and everyone around you have completely disregarded the realities of existence and to the extent they are aware of them, they simply tune them out and look in the other direction. A father no longer has a responsibility to put his son to work, to give him a skill, or an education, or a craft, or teach him about the ways of life which aren’t repeated on the television screen. At most, he has a responsibility to simply make sure the son doesn’t die or end up in prison and typically, he doesn’t even feel that responsibility. You live in a society where a vague notion of youth is extended to people even in their 30s and thus, at the age of 18, 22, 25, you’re free to waste your life on whatever mindless bullshit you please and not only will no one denigrate it but they’ll actually encourage it. “My father never went to college so it was really important I go to college. After college, I called him long distance and said, now what?" "My dad didn’t know." "When I got a job and turned twenty-five, long distance, I said, now what?" "My dad didn’t know, so he said, get married." "I’m a thirty-year-old boy, and I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer I need." "What happens at fight club doesn’t happen in words. Some guys need a fight every week. This week, Tyler says it’s the first fifty guys through the door and that’s it. No more." How many fathers revel in their son going off to college and his tales of chasing pussy, getting blackout drunk, doing drugs, and getting into bar fights, being an embarrassment to the family name? He revels in it as a way to recall nostalgia for youth. His son is “cool” and that’s what really matters right? Even though, in the back of his head he knows that while none of those things in a vacuum undermine life, they do undermine life when they take the place of more substantial experiences in life. How many people here actually got good advice from their parents? How many have parents on their 2nd or 3rd divorce who will still happily give their young son or daughter relationship advice along the (extremely vague) lines of “just worry about your career” such that the child will inevitably look up at 32 with no friends, no partner, no particular endeavours, and maybe not even a career? A large reason so many men today are weak is because they've been deprived of any values, guidance or father figure or role model. 1/2

@Lyubov Yeah do what Leo said but to make it crazier smoke crack on top of it

@Lyubov Have her stomp on your balls

@Emotionalmosquito Women aren't rationally thinking these thinks. They just act impulsively because they're emotional. Sex is not a rational act.

@Knowledge Hoarder It's observable reality that some people are born hot, some people are born ugly. What it has to do with the topic is that there's hardly any meritocracy when it comes to sex and what people find attractive either. The point is simply that some are born into so much unfathomable wealth that no matter what you do or how hard you try you will never get that. Just as there are some men born so attractive that no matter how many jokes you tell or burning hoops you jump through they will still be the amog. Ofcourse there is. There is supply and demand. There are some men and women that are more attractive than others and are sought after. To deny that is to deny observable reality. Are you telling me that virgins don't exist and that men who fuck dozens of women don't? That its all fair and everyone gets the exact same and have the same chances at sexual mobility (rather than economic mobility)? It's not a victim mindset to point out reality. It's fact. Just like it doesn't mean I have a victim mentality to acknowledge the unfairness in the economy. That some work several jobs while a football makes more in ten minutes than they do in a several months of hard back breaking labor. WOW you just said nothing is fair. What a victim mentality lol. The fact that others need to work not just harder, but much much harder and sometimes no matter how hard you work you still won't get what you want, if that isn't a rigged game then what is? Genuine question. I try because it's my only option. But I don't bullshit myself and bury my head in the sand like everyone else it seems.

@Knowledge Hoarder Why can people admit that life isn't fair economically? That some are born into sheer poverty and destitution. That meritocracy is largely a myth. That lets say Trumps children have inherited far more than you will ever make in several life times no matter how hard or smart you work. But fail to use that same reasoning when it comes to the sexual and romantic market. In that realm it's all about your "mindset" and "pull yourself up by your boot straps" mentality. Lets just admit that the game isn't fair and it's rigged. At least than I would care more to try with the wide acknowledgement that it's not a meritocracy and it's all just bullshit.

@Knowledge Hoarder Funny it's always virgin vs chad. An analogy that adds further proof of the mogging world. @Raptorsin7 Someone please enlighten me to what "The ego when awareness discovers itself." means.

@Leo Gura Alright man I won't post anymore. I just find something about it all to be funny. The idea of going to a bar or club to compete for women's attention and worrying about other men swooping in and taking her is just funny. @Rilles I don't know what you mean.

@Knowledge Hoarder It's not incel shit. I have a bald Indian janitor friend whose 4'10 and slays all the time. I know looks don't matter. All I'm bringing up is the importance of the mogging world. That is all.