axiom

This may be a semantic issue only. The idea of a "self" seems like a potentially confusing or limiting label when referencing infinity. Words like infinity, God, appearance seem more apt. The word "self" conjures up the notion of a self relative to other. There is the appearance. If that is what you are referring to when you use the word "self" then that is correct. The appearance is not conscious. To be conscious implies duality (being conscious *of* a thing, or of itself). But it is already obvious from awakening that all consciousness is simply a misapprehension / co-opting of appearance. God, infinity undivided.

@Matthew85 There is no benefit to the self - actually this is death to the self - because the self is also imaginary. Transcendence is the end of "your world" forever.

Causality and free will are illusions of the ego, with its sense of location, sense of time and so on. There is only infinity, which is veiled by attachments and seeking.

@billiesimon Whatever you think you are right now is illusory. The idea of a “you” is a misapprehension caused by a strong egoic identification with thoughts, sensations and physical objects, all of which are merely appearances arising. They have nothing to do with “you”. There is no you. There is *only* this / God / infinity. The appearance. All that appears to be. If the body you think you are occupying dies, and the seeking energy that is the illusory “you” hasn’t been exhausted, then there will be further illusions. The self is very, very sticky. For example, “you” may get stuck to your wife, your best friend, or your pet dog. It’s not that “you” kick them out of “their” body - a la Quantum Leap - so that you can occupy it. It’s that the seeking energy will latch on to a form that already isn’t actually occupied by anyone. This is “reincarnation”. Enlightenment is the end of the seeking energy, and thus leads to the end of the apparent reincarnation cycle. “Once in every thousand thousand years does a soul wake up”…

A human has as much free will as a rock.

No… but it sounds important.

The emptiness of existence that you are referring to here is what @RMQualtrough has described in this thread. The rest of your post is a story - a distraction for the ego to think it is real, has a purpose, and must do something to get somewhere. It proves his original point.

Hilarious!

@Razard86 Sure. It could be said that in the story, effort seems to required. Thereafter it is obvious that noone was there to put the effort in. This has been referred to as the pathless path, the gateless gate and so on. The problem with talking about effort is that it gives the self something else to stick to.

@Razard86 The body has the desire to survive, seemingly, and the self has a desire to feel whole. But these desires does not belong to anyone - they are just appearances.

The unfathomable depth is it. Not in thinking about it and not in experiencing it.

@OnePointTwo Yes. All desire is the illusion of self. The desire to seek or the desire not to seek. Yes, in that sense it is a reductionist argument.

Then we agree. The illusion of self is, of course, also the appearance.

The illusion of self is: "I am separate and I feel unfilled. I need to somehow recapture wholeness". Cue a lifetime of seeking. The desire to be understood and accepted is nothing other than the illusory sense of self. All the while, wholeness carries on regardless. Reductionism is a feature, not a bug

@OnePointTwo The illusion of self.

@Razard86 The irony is that love requires no effort. No effort is love. To the extent the self thinks it is real and thus uniquely important, it gets in the way of love (selfishness)

@RMQualtrough Agree. There are no secret doors, no hidden knowledge, no secret realities, no secret levels of consciousness... and no you. Appearance is absolutely direct. It could however be referred to as "God". The (only) everything-nothing. These are just words though. What most apparent people here don't get - and never will - is that all of "their" thoughts are merely appearance. Everything they consider to comprise "themselves" is just an appearance. Rising up and passing away. No permanence. No time. No space. No self. Even awareness is an abstraction of the appearance, since it gives the obvious illusion of self a place to hide. The idea of knowledge is always a separation, always abstraction. The only truth is the appearance. Not in somehow knowing the appearance or inferring anything from the appearance. Just the appearance. That's it.

@Holykael It is correct that there is no free will. Still it is possible for the seeking energy, the sense of separation, the sense of incompleteness - and along with it the notion that there is a problem to be fixed - to completely dissolve. Ironically, seeking can seem to lead to its own dissolution. A metaphor for this might be how a car apparently needs fuel in order to stop. Of course, without any fuel the car is already stationary, already stopped. Yes, it is a hopeless situation. But seeking energy seems to burn itself out, particularly if it burns extra bright.

In a way this is correct. All seeking perpetuates the illusion and feeds the self. The whole forum should be deleted really :-)

I don’t agree with this. The idea that appearance requires awareness is a duality - it is in fact this that keeps the ego thinking it is real, that there is a me that is separate from the world and aware of the world. There isn’t. There is the world - and that’s it. “You” as a separate thing are not actually there, and you never were. ”Awareness” is an abstraction, a mislabelling of appearance. It is merely a claim to whatever is appearing. This is a very persistent misapprehension, and is the last place the embers of the ego will hide, waiting for any fuel (any apparent inconvenience, hurdle, or perceived attack) to fully reignite. And reignite it will. Cue more seeking. Finally cornered, it can be seen that the self was only ever an ownership-taking energy. A parasite. And the cosmic joke is that it too is simply an appearance. When this "parasite" truly has no place left to hide - not even in the idea of awareness - all of its energy is entirely dissolved. Reality is seen as it is - free, clearer, brighter. No ownership, no judgement and noone there to judge. Simply an appearance.

The biggest barrier is by far the conceptualisation of appearance as personal awareness.

There are no laws of physics. This is already perfect chaos subject to infinite interpretations.

Waking reality no longer seems to appear real. It seems like a vibrant nothing. All appearances are seen to be on an equal footing, including thoughts and awareness. There is no centre. There is no time. Ego is seen for what it is. All of spirituality, all striving and seeking is seen as an excuse, a clinging. It seems very obvious that life is complete and perfect as it is, and that nothing needs to happen in any particular way.

It's not possible to do anything. This is already all there is - there is no "you" separate from this which can affect it. There's your problem (so to speak)

There are some dualities here. Some are subtle, some are not so subtle. Number 6: "God" and you are not separate. God is love, undivided. You are not God. God is God. There is nothing but God. Number 8: There is only God. No "part of infinity", only infinity. Number 9: I would rephrase this as: "Both good and bad are illusions that the ego latches on to, and adds meaning to, as an excuse to perpetuate its own survival" Number 12: Reality is not a pure illusion. The ego just incessantly co-opts whatever seems to be there. For example the idea of "time" offers reassurance when the reality seems to be infinite impermanence. Number 14: None of this is needed nor not needed. God is complete as it is and needs nothing. Number 15: A beautiful sentiment. But there is no separate you, nor separate other. There is only God which is already infinite unconditional love.