Consept

Saw this the other day, excellent doc, I think Stutz's methods are really good for growth and both him and Jonah were incredibly open and vulnerable, fully recommend it

Thats interesting, never heard that but it kinda make sense as stress can cause a lot of side effects on the body. Do you have any studies you could link about it?

I've been on the forum basically since the start and I think at the beginning, no one really knew what shape it would take and what kind of people it would attract. So it definitely interested me to have a community of people interested in talking about consciousness and non-duality and looking at society from a different perspective. Before i get into my criticisms I want to give some positives, its really great that you can meet and potentially build relationships with people interested in this stuff, theres not a lot of people that are that I come across in my life anyway, so this is cool. Also a lot of great resources get posted which can lead to going down new paths and learning new ideas. Now for the fun part... My main criticism is that I think Leo underestimates how much foundational growth people need to do before they start trying to realise things like god-consciousness and I believe this forum encourages them to bypass basic work they need to do in the real world which will help them grow. Most people come on here I believe because in some way they arent fulfilled by life, theyre looking for a way out. I would say the demographic on here is relatively young lets say 20s, in which case its not people who have lived 50 years and become disillusioned with their path, its those that dont want to face the everyday struggle of looking after yourself, working, going into the world. It can be a daunting prospect, especially if you have unaddressed traumas or parents that have coddled you or youre always online and have never really experienced life. Its natural that if you dont feel prepared you will look for a workaround, an easier way out, this is the human condition. I believe enlightenment is being unconsciously sold as this workaround, if you are looking for a way out in the way ive outlined, and you stumble upon Leos videos and hes talking about ultimate bliss and how it can be realised, something will hit home because there is truth in what Leo says, but you will only be attempting to bypass the hard but essential parts of life. I think people have the idea that, if i get enlightened everything else will fall into place, to me this is fantasy, it does not work like this. Maslows Hierarchy as well as Ken Wilburs model, which states you should 'grow up, clean up, wake up then show up'. No one puts waking up first, even spiral dynamics requires that you go through the lower stages and first and get to healthy versions of them. Because of the nature of any forum, ego does come into play and i think people tend to peg themselves higher on SD, but again this is just another form of bypassing, there is demonisation sometimes of blue and orange but i dont think people realise how important these are to incorporate for your life, its very important that you have structure, discipline, you know how to make money etc. I believe most people on the forum arent content because these things are not in order, its nothing to do with them not being enlightened. You will be surprised at how mch your state can change once you take responsibility for yourself, talk to more people, cook for yourself, workout etc. People who have never attempted to talk to the opposite sex, had a job, lived by themselves etc in my opinion should not be worried about Alien love or the highest levels of awakening. The reality is they want to do all those things and more but for whatever reason they dont feel they can, their striving for higher levels of consciousness is just avoidance and i think until they sort themselves out spirituality will almost be a means to an end. If you notice a lot of the people that I wouldve considered quite healthy higher stage people have actually left the forum or post very rarely and its just because of where the forum actually is. Im not criticising anyone for being at any level, thats part of the journey but i think its a bit of an illusion that this is a high level forum. I think this forum is people on their journey, working it out but have been seduced by the idea that they can be awakened mainly through psychedelics and will be able to skip big chunks of the journey. Im not saying that you shouldnt be interested in non-duality or Leos ideas, they of course can help and give you a new perspective on the world. What im saying is that dont expect them to be a way out of anything. Take joy in normal life, dont try to escape, level up in every aspect.

Completely agree with you, the show up is weird because it hasn't got a proper foundation it can almost be a case of the blind leading the blind. But yeah generally the forums priorisation is back to front. I'd agree with @spiritual memes as well in that the clean up is almost non existent. To me this setup can really mess a lot of people up.

Yeah it's the same with anything that you think of as a final goal, you only really look at the positive side I'd you don't have it. Like if you think you wa t this perfect partner you might only think of all the great stuff you can do with them, you don't take into account they may have their own wants and needs and it might be hard to fulfill them. I think in general its just the human condition of a hope for something better, I guess we need the realisation that we can accept things as they are. Most rich people if not all will see the limits of what wealth can do for them and how much stress it can actually be to hold it. Most lottery winners don't keep the money that long.

In my experience people will come to the teachings themselves, when you try and sell people on it, it rarely works. The best way to teach is to be the example yourself, if you live in peace and joy, people will notice and most likely ask you, in which case you will be available. If you feel a need to spread, then explore why that is, keep in mind every ideology feels the need to spread it, no matter how toxic it might be.

As the late great poet Christopher 'Biggie' Wallace said "Mo money, mo problems"

In my view if you are prioritising enlightenment over your lower needs this is spiritual bypassing. Most of the time you would be using enlightenment as a way not to deal with for example either traumas that you might have or the hard work of becoming self sufficient. If you think of it like everything builds on top of everything else so enlightenment is built on top of having these other needs sorted out. A lot of the time when this isnt the case quite negative things can happen, look at sexual allegations in spiritual communities or people just going completely off the rails on psychedelics. The question would be, why wouldnt you want to sort out your trauma before prioritising enlightenment? The only answer I could think is that you want to bypass it, which is fine but i just dont think it works.

Excellent bro, always remember to enjoy the journey dont overthink it. Youre doing well though

The French team looks great, I've put some money on them anyway. Also the South American teams Brazil and Argentina should do well. A lot of controversy on this wc, even the pundits are getting questioned for working on it. It was definitely bought by Qatar so very strange circumstances

Yeah there's a Ken Wilbur model where he says you need to - Grow up - mature, become self sufficient etc motivation and self can aid this Clean up - work on your traumas, mental health stuff Wake up - spirituality, realise you're not your seperate self Show up - do something in the world, serve I believe if you haven't got the first 2 down or at least made good progress, you'll really just be trying to wake up or show up to sort out the first 2. A big problem on the forum is that the wake up part is sold as the only thing that's important and this can be a big problem if a lot of your members haven't gone through the first 2

I'll qualify again, on average the max you can make is 4% a day as a great trader. So of course you can make 100% in one day but if you were to do that over a long period of time you will probably lose money. I'm gonna be real though, maybe if you really loved trading and spent hours even years studying and practising it might help you escape wage slavery, but even then it's not really providing value. You seem to want to not put in any work or perceived risk and not provide any value but still escape wage slavery. This is not a moral judgement but I will tell you this plan will definitely not work and has never worked, ask 99% of people trying to do it with crypto. Consider that if it was that easy for everyone to make money, wouldn't everyone just do that and be rich?

4% of whatever they put on that day, this is just for day trading btw. So if they put 100 that day they would make 4 profit for example, but that's a really good trader, most people would lose money

100% agree with you here, i think people are trying to avoid trauma healing because its hard and not fun, you cant really sell it in the same way as enlightenment. As you say, most that are looking for enlightenment are really just looking for a way out of suffering but I think if you bypass the trauma work, that pain will always be there. Leo imo oversells the enlightenment work and undersells the trauma work, although i do get it as that not really his speciality so it wouldnt make sense for him to focus on that, but from another perspective I would say it is the most essential. I also have a theory that most would actually drop the spiritual journey if they could work through their trauma and have fulfilling, active lives. I would make the argument that self help is important because it ties in with trauma work and would contribute to you just having a better life. For example you will of course feel better if you sleep well, do a physical activity and have a good diet, this can put you in a much better state to actually face your traumas and do that work. To me its a holistic approach and you really need everything, I just think this forum is to weighted on the side of enlightenment chasing when people havent got these foundational things in place.

@omar30 I don't get why he needs other people to trade though even if he is getting 10%. If he could get 125 from a 25 investment why not just do that himself if hes so sure he can get that return? Why only get 10% instead of 100%. The only reason would be that if he loses the money its no loss for him but if you make a profit he makes money, so for him it makes no difference. the reality is, a phenomenally good trader is not going to make more than around 4% per day so whatever he's claiming is insane.

I agree with what youre saying and i think it is important, but what i generally see is people looking for a quickish fix and bypassing the life stuff. I feel that Leo, at times, paints this picture that all your problems will be solved i youre enlightened, at least thats how its been interpreted on the forum, you have to appreciate how compelling this idea is for people who want a way out, this can be especially problematic with psychedelics, where people who are just not ready are taking them consistently. Hey good to hear from you man, i do remember your posts. Looking forward to hearing your fleshed out thoughts I agree bro, I think you are probably unique from a lot of other users, I myself have lived on my own since i was 18 and am 37 now, it wasnt really by choice but i got thrown into it, it was incredibly difficult but it does force you to grow up. I commend you for the journey youve been on and yes i think if you are in that achiever mindset you can also get lost in it and you do need that spiritual balance, but even now youre saying that you still have life stuff to sort out, which shows a good amount of awareness. An interesting point is that Leo himself went through this life stuff, where he grew up, worked, made his money etc then he got into spirituality, this is how he is becoming self-actualized. But the issue is that hes attracting those that want to skip the life stuff, either hes encouraging it, concsiously or unconsciously or people are just attracted to it but either way i think its not the best route for most people. @Manusia @SamueLSD Thank you guys

@Tyler Robinson Just as a thought experiment you could imagine what it might be like to take 100% responsibility for what happens to you. This is not necessarily easy but just go with me for a sec, let's say a 5 year old child, they rarely take responsibility for their actions, let's do a scenario, the child is left alone with a friend and they smash a vase by accident, when questioned by his mum the child blames his friend and claims he made me do it, the child really feels this and even gets emotional about it. Now from an adult perspective we can see that the child does bare some responsibility, it was his friend, he was playing a game and he was near the vase, from the child's perspective, it's not his fault at all. A good parent would explain why it's the child's responsibility and punish him, this way he will more than likely avoid this kind of thing in the future and if he can't he will take responsibility for his actions. As an adult it's slightly more difficult and complex but let's imagine we can take a God view of a situation where one might be gaslit. If your partner lies to you or attempts to make you believe something that isn't true, then you can also take responsibility for this even if you don't see it as your fault. God might point out that you chose this particular person, maybe you ignored certain signs that they were deceptive, maybe you stayed with them the first time you spotted a red flag. Now the reasons you did this maybe from trauma, but the point is you have to take responsibility because these things are happening to you, if it is trauma then it is on you to get help for that. So although when something goes wrong in one's life it may not directly be your fault but it still is your responsibility, it has to be as no one else has a motive to take responsibility for you. In terms of empathy of course someone can be sad that something happened to you but whether that thing happens to you again, would be down to you taking responsibility for it.

I dont blame as I dont think hes necessarily doing it on purpose, he would probably make more money with more basic videos, but the point is he doesnt seem to be aware of what at least most people on the forum actually need and also how it can be potentially damaging to offer them this unrealistic way out. Even if you did bypass and get enlightened lets say, you probably wouldnt be that effective if you havent got these foundational aspects sorted out. Its also very damaging when you consider that there will be people with mental health issues, who are desperate for a way out and this can offer them a lot of hope, but the reality of it is that they need to address and fix their traumas and issues not run away from them. We have seen how bad this can turn out in the past, without bringing up those unfortunate incidents. Thanks for sharing, I am happy that you came to this realisation and maybe that can be seen as a benefit of psychedelics, but i also think it would be more helpful if say you were talking to someone you can trust, either irl or on this forum say and told them how you felt , they may have been able to help you reach this conclusion and give you more actionable steps. I would argue this would be a better path to take than to get heavy into psyches and over things. It probably wouldve taken less time and been more effective. Yes this is my point, if youre depressed or vulnerable and someone that you look up to says with absolute certainty that you need to focus 100% on enlightenment to change how you feel, then of course you will do it. But that same person might be depressed because they never exercise, they dont sleep properly, their diet is terrible, they have unaddressed traumas, they havent got social skills. There are so many things you can get to before you start striving 100% for enlightenment.

Gaslighting is a thing, as in someone consciously trying to deceive someone and get them to question their reality but slightly altering it. But the truth is most people who are accused of it are not actually gaslighting, they might just be seeing something from their perspective. For example I might literally see someone's behavior as crazy from my perspective and call it out as such, they may accuse me of gaslighting them by trying to make them think they're crazy but that wouldn't be the intention. I feel like a lot of times now the term is thrown around almost as an emotional defense mechanism, to make someone feel like they've hurt you and it could be true from your perspective but it adds a bit punch than if you just said 'what you said hurt me'.

I think there's the potential to become more funny, because you're not as strongly tied to any side you can see different perspectives and also you can see the funny side to them all. Things are no longer 'sacred' and your take on them is more loose. With green or orange they hold their particular ideology as sacred and you can't make jokes about them, which adds a certain tightness about them which is not the best condition for humour.

This is real, I think a lot of people go through this stage where there is a fear that they can be effective pr successful in the world, from there you have to options 1. Do the hard work and become better or 2. Blame the world and highlight how shallow it is that other people are trying to get better. Humans will more than likely choose the path of least resistance and so a lot of people will go down the second path

It would be great but why would I want to go against my biology? I'm not saying you shouldn't see women as people obviously do that, but you can't ignore your biology which is in the mix with your interactions, you can't repress it but you can let it be there and choose when or not to act on it. You don't need to demonise your biology. Could you do it though, be with women you find unattractive? Or would you aim to be able to do it?

I don't need proof for myself, its great what you say and I agree it would be amazing not to care about attraction etc. So your solution would be to try and get with girls you're not attracted to and love them deeply, that will sort out all the issues you have outlined as well

Bro, I actually dont know how to explain it any better as much as ive tried. Of course most if not all women and even men actually, need their emotional needs fulfilled its very important. But without the biological needs being present there probably wouldnt be romantic relationships, it would just be close friendships if anything. As i said if you didnt have the biological need to be with a woman romantically you wouldnt care in the same way, asexual people, if they wanted a partner, would care more about compatibility and having a companion, they most likely wouldnt care about any biological needs. You on the other hand have said you wanted an attractive partner, therefore your biological needs are going to be inseparable from who youre attracted to and decision of who youre going to be with is not independent and not just based on emotional needs first. If my experience tells you something you dont agree with you want to dismiss it? Very open minded bro. But ill leave it here anyway

How are you getting on with that?