Consept

You should watch it, i actually felt a bit sorry for Tate at the end, he was deeply wounded by his father but he cant blame him in anyway. He sounded like a little boy with a skewed idea of what it is to be a strong man. He can never be present or be with and explore emotions. Its quite sad tbh, BUT he cant accept responsibility for what hes done and he cant let in the truth about himself, so he needs to be humbled one way or another and i think this is what is happening for him, it will be interesting to see if he keeps blaming "the matrix" or he actually repents but either way hes going to prison imo

@Danioover9000 Dunno bro, i got premium

Actually found this quite interesting, Tate sits with a psycho-analyst who actually pushes him on a few things. Im only an hour in but around 40 min Tate talks about how he doesn't believe that if people show emotions its real, he sees it as a way to manipulate people because if he were to show emotions he would be manipulating others. He was also pushed on the men he manipulated but he rationalises it by saying, someone would've manipulated them if not him, then kind of catches himself and says he helped them because they were lonely and so gave them a "girlfriend". Generally what I get from it and the analyst brought it up, is that he's able to twist things and take control of the narrative even within the conversation. Interested to know others thoughts

In an ideal world everyone would be able to say whatever they want and there would be a general respect for each other. But the reality is free speech can and has consistently been used in the past to suppress other people as well brainwash and radicalise others. There are countless examples that have led to everything from a group of people being treated unfairly to genocide of millions (Rwanda, South Africa, Germany, lots of countries). Whats been different in the past is that only the rulers have had that platform, now its available for everyone but the risks are the same if not more, because although not perfect there are limits to what big platforms and government can say or do, whereas normal people dont have these checks. So before you could just hate black people in your room and maybe talk to couple friends about it, now in theory you can have a platform to get into the ears of millions. People would love to think that all people are critical thinkers and with our freedom we're able to choose whats right and wrong, but heres the thing - propaganda works! Thats why companies spend billions on advertising, they know that they can get you to buy things you dont really need even if these things can actually damage you physically, mentally or financially. So if someone is charismatic and convincing they can definitely get people to follow, the numerous cults throughout history are evidence of that. So the balance is how can we let everyone say and do what they want, without people having the power to cause harm to others and society as a whole? If you accept what ive outlined that unchecked freedom of speech can potentially be dangerous, then free speech absolutism is almost like saying there should be no laws, we should be able to do whatever we want and trust each other to do the right thing.

If it was integrity, he would stand behind what he's saying now instead of denying it or claiming it was 10 years ago or that it was only helping girls with silly tiktok videos. He said the things he said before because he probably didn't think he was doing anything illegal or if he was he wasn't famous enough for anyone to care. Aside from that he lies all the time, everything from being a chess champion, which was checked and didn't happen, to how much money he has, he claimed a billion when the feds only found 10 mill in cash and assets (although he could be hiding money). He is charismatic and can be funny but that's about it, integrity isn't his strong point

'They' sound powerful, cant believe theyre using all the resources to wrongfully convict the Tates, youd think theyd be focused on something else other than these guys that just motivate young men and work with young women to help them monetise their tik tok videos

It depends how you look at it, but one perspective would be that if you accept that Tates main goal was to make money and gain status (which he has said himself) and the means to do this is to manipulate people (which hes also said himself) then any 'good' hes done would be in service to this goal and the people that would say hes done good would be the ones being manipulated. Most of the women that he trafficked will defend him because theyve groomed to do so, meanwhile theyre making money for him through sex work, a lot of R.Kellys victims also defended him and hes now in prison. But this is not limited to the women, the men that believe he has done overwhelmingly good things are also victims of this manipulation. Think about it every 'evil' leader in history had supporters that would swear that the person has done great things, Hitler, Escobar, Charles Manson, Jim Jones etc etc. Although im not equating Tate with them as they obviously caused a lot more damage, it is the same psychology being used, whereby supporters are more than willing to make excuses for quite obvious crimes. You could argue that Hitler was incredibly motivational and a great speaker who boosted the confidence of many people and made them proud to be German, but i wouldnt argue he was a 'good' influence on society. Its possible that someone can do bad things, repent turn their life around and do great things for society. The issue here is that Tate claims no responsibility and is blaming everyone else but himself and his crew for the situation he finds himself. These are not the actions of someone that does good, because if you were focused on doing good you would at least acknowledge the harm you may have caused, which is why i dont think hes orientated to do good at all, its just a perception of it that hes creating to get followers to think hes some noble man. On a practical level his teachings around working out, diet etc are objectively very low level, there are many better teachers of that. Motivation i can see how he is effective but again so are cult leaders. What he does expose is how needed good male role models are in society.

Tate is one thing, but it is interesting the psychology of those that still defend him despite him literally admitting on camera to the crimes hes being charged for. Makes me think about cult psychology and how people follow charismatic but dangerous leaders.

Its the risk and reward gamble for criminal enterprises. You can sell drugs and get rich quick but the trade off is the risk of losing your freedom

I would find it hard to look past the anti-vax stuff. He wasn't just against covid he's against all vaccines, in which case you can't use the typical covid anti-vax arguments (not enough research time etc) he's against vaccines that have been researched and tested for years. In general he seems like a bit of a all over the place, no doubt they'll be some policies that are interesting but his general framework isn't great

Shutting down offices in Ghana wouldn't make you racist tbh, it would be quite unlikely that a publicly listed business that has gotten to the stage would make a decision like this based on race, its a ridiculous idea in fact, there would have to be some business basis. I don't know exactly what he said about white South Africans so I can't comment. There are some incidents with the farmers getting backlash but that's quite a complex subject that is to do with race but has a lot of components to it. Are any direct quotes that you would consider racist?

There are some interviews in the vice doc with the girls where they say they were affected quite badly, witnessed Tate raping other girls, apparently he beat some of them as well. I get what you're saying, 15 years in a Romanian jail would be hell, but ultimately he did choose Romania specifically because he thought the laws were lax. Also keep in mind he most likely would've got away with everything if he didn't make videos detailing exactly what he did. He scammed a lot of men as well, probably ruined their lives. Not to mention his effect on young men, do overall he's definitely had an extremely negative impact on society. I guess you could make the argument dies anyone deserve to be in a Romanian prison, there are probably some human rights issues but there does need to be some consequences for the Tates

@StarStruck Before you get excited, the judge just doesn't see them as a flight risk, they still have to check in with authorities and can't leave the city. It has no bearing on what the outcome of the case will be, so id wait til the court case before saying I told you so

It's in the vice doc below, not sure of the time stamp. Tbf it's hard to interpret exactly how Tate felt about the guy going in the ring to fight, could be a number of things but I wouldn't really use it as evidence of sociopathy, but I think there a lot of better examples of his sociopathy, even doing the doc in the first place knowing the potential against you indicates narcissism. Sociopathy might be the things he does to control the girls ie knowingly lying to them about their reputations or isolating them from friends and family etc.

African players are often targets because they are usually carrying whole villages back home on their shoulders, so with the right offer they can do a lot of good. It's not great for their careers but I can see why they do it.

This has happened before with the other more obscure leagues spending lots of money bringing in players. It doesn't seem to work consistently and I think it's because most names that go are edging toward the end of the careers and looking for a last big payday, this is case for Ronaldo, Benzema, Henderson etc. Aside from the big names the leagues are miles away from the European leagues. Europe and South America have a long history and massive infrastructure, as well population of developing world class players, this means even a c- list premier league player is way higher quality than the average Saudi league player. It would be hard to convince a world class player in his prime to go to Saudi even for all the money in the world, which is what they offered Mbappe (500m a year), there's no prestige in the Saudi league compared to Europe. So unless the literally but every top player to fill the league it eouldnt be sustainable as they don't produce any players.

I'd disagree, I think he does lean toward sociopathy. In the article they say a narcissist would know when to stop and wouldn't take it to the point where the consequences would be negative for them. Tate has clearly gone past this and didn't even see it as wrong, he celebrated and tried to teach others how to do it. He can have a moral structure but a serial killer can have a moral structure, doesn't mean they're not psychopathic. Also I'm not even sure he believes the brotherhood thing, I think it's a play to get more men to sign up to his war room. If you look at his webcam business he not only exploited women but also men ruthlessly and with lies about meeting the girls, then laughed about it publicly on podcasts. I think even narcissists could see that's messed up.

I'm not even sure it is just narcissism, going by the wats app messages and war room texts I would say it's actually toward sociopathy, especially when you consider there's been no accountability or remorse so far. I also have a theory on how he manipulated his fans. If you look at pimps their main tactic is to see what the potential 'hoe' is lacking in their life, could be love for example but could also be as low as food or shelter or protection, depends on the womans situation. The pimp then promises to fulfill this need but in doing that gets the woman to make him money through sex. He never actually fulfils any needs properly the whole game is giving the illusion that he is especially the love one, which of course Tate does well. This is the con. Tate did the same thing with his fans, he directly targeted young men who were lacking in positive male role models, who didn't have purpose or masculine energy, who maybe feel they don't have much control over their lives. This is a massive market, which we could blame society for, but people like Tate have correctly identified it and given them exactly what they want, flexing a flashy lifestyle, telling them they don't need society and they can make it on their own, telling them how easy it is to get women, money, good body etc. But it's the same bait and switch, Tate promises all these things and because of this and the attitude he portrays, these men and boys fall in love with him. When they fall in love with him, he's able to extract money from them. The beauty of it is you can be broke and still pay him $50 a month or you can have a little more money or take out a loan and give him 5k for one of his events or 8k to join his war room. What he teaches, especially for the $50 a month is not how he actually made money, as we know he made money being a pimp, being in with the Romanian mafia setting up casinos and probably other dark stuff. The fans saying he's not taking advantage of the women are the very ones being taken advantage of, at least the women did make some money, these guys are just giving money directly to Tate. This system is so efficient for Tate he didn't even need to carry on with the webcam business. If you're giving money to Tate you're being pimped.

I dont think you understand what hearsay is, hearsay would be if someone who was not directly involved with the incidents that occurred, heard from someone who was or wasnt involved and presented that as evidence. In this case there are direct transcripts directly from Tate, taken from his wats app messages, his messages on his own website forums, his own self-published PHD (pimping hoes degree) course, his own youtube videos, direct statements from the victims who were involved. You couldnt get further away from hearsay, as in i literally couldnt think of evidence that could be more direct than the accused literally saying what he did and then there being messages confirming that he was doing what he said as well as victims coming out and speaking on it, which ties in with what he said he did to them. Its actually incredible the amount of cope that Tate fans are exhibiting. But i guess it is common and its how con men can be successful as theyre able to dupe people into thinking they havent been duped.

Yeah no jury, judge will make the final decision, which I think could be worse for the Tates

Fair enough and respect for critically thinking

I might ne wrong but weren't you siding with Tate before @Bobby_2021 ? If so what made you change your mind?

I get you but you could still draw the same parallel in the life analogy. So like to play life 'better' let's say, you would have built up some experience and then you have a feel for what works and what doesn't, this is exactly how it works in chess as you know. I think to make any decision in life we draw on either our own past experience or someone else's that we've read or heard about. We don't consciously think we're doing that but most likely we are.

I wasnt saying to play with your feelings i was saying you have to have emotional control, but feelings of course will pop up. This is the same pretty much with any sport, tennis players will have a lot of emotions all the time and the best players can handle them better than others, so either way emotions and feelings are important. Also you can rely on feelings in chess in another sense, there are many players that play intuitively as in they dont calculate every move. Personally im ranked around 1600 on bullet chess and this is pretty much all intuitive as you havent got the time to calculate

(I play chess daily) Feelings matter a lot in chess and affect the moves that you make, a quick example is that if you blunder and lose a piece most players will have an emotional reaction and want to take back as soon as possible. I noticed this in myself and am more aware to take a second after a mistake and consider what the best move would be even if it means not taking back straight away. This in itself is a great lesson for life in that having emotional control and being able to recognise when your emotions are heightened can lead to you making better decisions or at least not making decisions when in a heightened state. In general i agree with @trenton in that chess is a limited game and life is almost limitless in that there are so many variables, its also so complexed where its a lot harder to predict outcomes, particularly because a lot of life is based on other people actions and emotions. For example the stock market is notoriously hard to predict because you dont know exactly how masses of people are going to react to different circumstances.