Sugarcoat

You are right. We can reach kind of mindless, selfless states through this immersion, but it is to no avail for the average person because they’re not using those states to recognize something beyond their normal state. It’s different from when someone reaches a mindless, selfless state in for example meditation. That is done with intent and one is looking to reach that mindless state and selfless state and lock it down. It’s also devoid of a bunch of stimulation. In the case of stimulation, yes you’re pretty mindless but it’s like the content you’re consuming is doing the thinking instead of your mind, so it’s still a kind of mind activity. The selfless and mindless state from for example meditation is also grounded and rooted as you mentioned. So it’s higher tier. I don’t think one needs a positive sense of self before pursuing non duality. But a grounded and non neurotic one probably helps. Thats only if one desires to pursue non duality. If not, and as long as you’re human with a self, yes it’s a good idea to try to develop a good sense of self, it’s vital in fact as you say

I’m definitely in that psychotic duality hahahahha😂😂😂 Children are in selfless state right? But have limited experience (sense perceptions)? But if they don’t perceive limitations then isn’t that the full non dual?

You mean laughter breaks the human ego? To different degrees?

If everything is absence of limits then it means precisely the separate self isn’t real. I’m not talking about simply telling yourself it’s not real, I know that will not make any difference, but just pointing it out. It seems absolutely real to me, that im aware of. Breaking the limits means breaking the structure/form/appearance of self. That sounds absolutely amazing. But isn’t it impossible to perceive unlimited ness? Because a limited perceiver cant see unlimited ness? I know all of this is still on mental level for me. But I like to think about these things so it’s fine.

What is infinite goodness?

Maybe the brain is there to recognize difference

This is interesting If sense of self isn’t there, who would be able to recognize “this is the truth”? Are you sure you had zero self there?

Babies are alive but they aren’t self conscious. I’d say being alive is the same as body being alive, it’s a state of the body. You can be in coma unconscious but still alive. But you KNOW you’re alive because you are conscious and understand the concept of what it means to be alive. A baby might be conscious but not of itself or the concept of being alive so it doesn’t know its alive

Beautiful I remember myself when layers to the self shed. It feels very expansive and like you’re connected to something deeper

I have a lot of self referential thoughts. Be it imagination of myself, or other thoughts relating to self. I found it to be energy draining in the past in particular when my self was denser. Nowadays it’s just what my brain does while it feels pretty neutral to my energy and anxiety level. Connects to my previous point. You can also be in a kind of “flow with yourself”, it’s very inward it’s like if you’re expressing yourself. That includes your sense of self in the flow state. “Presence” to me can mean different things. For me to forget myself I’d have to for example be focused on the external world, that could induce “presence”. But it could also mean being the “witness” as some in spiritual circles say. I don’t really know how to do that. I don’t know if it’s the same as the “observer sense”, which is the sense of self. Does cannabis make you loose connection? What does that even mean? So for him 5 Meo creates a flow state in lower doses by reducing the ego?

Sen trope - Aziz Absolute banger

Maybe you’re not revealing it in a charming way so it just comes off as weird

Anxiolytics meaning to combat anxiety? So they put you in flow states? 5 Meo dmt seems to me not related to flow states but it’s like a direct attack on the structure of the self

It costed but not much at all.

I could say that about other things in my life so I can understand

You got me there

I remember when I was in psych ward too. It was pretty chill, you got to chill all day, take walks, wear their comfy clothes (I even asked them if I could buy their cozy pants but I couldn’t) you get served pretty decent food and there’s a cafeteria you can go to . lol I lowkey wanna go back. Nah jk

Beautifully written as usual Would you say that the sense of self can be intact as a structure/form, yet it’s simultaneously seen through as not absolutely real, so one is abiding in the “substance”, the limitless, and seeing from the absolute perspective while sense of self is still intact? So it’s like everything is the same but it’s just “seen through” ? Or sense of self has to dissolve as a structure to be able to see the absolute?

Ok😆

What was wrong lol

Or contemplate the contemplator, that’s deep too

@UnbornTao Theres so much to contemplate…

I don’t know what you mean by returning closer to the self, and dissolving the upper layers. I have experienced dissolution of layers to the self.

Good for you Yea I don’t know why it seemed to help. I dont think it helps nowadays though I try to embrace the pain of exercise but it’s hard

I am no expert in this but i think this is quite polarizing. Some will think it’s off putting some will think it’s funny, I don’t know which group will dominate Maybe my answer lacks depth but I couldn’t think of much else