Sugarcoat

I keep mentioning desire over and over again so you’re def onto something here

if you desire enlightenment - like you seem to do - doesn’t that mean that you sense there is something desirable about it to you? what is desirable about a “change in the context of existence”? it’s almost as if you are missing something to your definition of it. Isn’t the first step to getting what you want, knowing what you want? You say : “Nontheless, a clear and present state of mind is certainly mere conductive to awakening then being drunk for example.“ if you attain a clear and present state of mind - doesn’t any desire for something to come as a result of it disrupt this very state? It’s almost paradoxical then

People seem to experience that they can tho - that’s the part I’m trying to poke holes at here. I’m trying to say that you can seek anything but enlightenment , not that I know what it is, which is exactly my point, as anything we seek is something we have somewhat defined and thus ~know~ what it is You say : “It's just that most people don't because they are stuck tightly to the dream. They have survival needs and they only care about surviving in this dream as the self. “ Is it anything a self has ever done that isn’t exactly this? You seem to suggest most people are like this- and then there are a few of us that aren’t and thus are able to awaken. All selves ever only know dream and survival. A self cannot try to end itself as that’s just it trying to know the end of itself. It’s a desire for ~something ~ masquerading as desire for nothing. This kind of rhetoric evokes an attempt in people to try to end this “survival game”. But that is also the survival game. Trying to get out by the same means you are in it in the first place. How can I say this. I’m trying to communicate something. Basically. You won’t loose anything by engaging in this dream, because you’re already doing it and it is the only thing you can do.

I like that point

I love how you sat down and included a definition haha, but I know what it means. Not much time is needed on the internet to hear about it sorry for this wacky quoting I’m just struggling on my phone You said : ” I do sometimes get amusing responses, especially when I create more than two voices. Instead of being serious, they'll start taking cracks at each other. This generally only happens when the topic is non-critical, or when the discussion has dragged on a while without any results, which is also usually the point where more voices are brought in. I once had a voice that was jealous of the rest of me. I was literally jealous of myself. That's the kind of shenanigans my disintegrated mind can get up to.“ Hahahahahah our own minds can be the funniest shit I swear. Be careful who you tell this too tho, they might make a call to the psych ward. jealous of yourself? Ok ?? never heard of that before. You must have realized your own chadness or something what’s cool is also that all these different “personas” you could call them, they aren’t just “in your head”. One could learn how to communicate them outwardly into the outside world and express there. For example some of us might feel we are very funny and charming and “deep” in our heads but awkward and shallow in real life. But this “in your head” is in a way just as much you as you irl, and with time it can come to flow outwards. Like this convo we are having sharing our innermost worlds with each other and connecting ? even helping each other draw this inner energy outwards, or at least in my experience You said : ” It's totally a form of self-therapy. Every time I think of getting therapy, I try this technique out on my issue, and end up concluding that it wouldn't be worth paying and waiting for someone else to help me when I can get help for free and right now. I definitely do sometimes get clear answers, though as you mention, sometimes it's just a seed for future exploration.” hahah I see you are economical ? And yes totally there is value to it even if answers don’t come right away. The best answers sometimes comes unexpected. you said: “ That usually happens when I can't bring out the right voices. I can't embody a voice for a part of myself that has completely alienated itself, so at times like that I'll be stymied until I at least get some idea of what that alien would say in response to an inquiry. Then it's just about finding compassion for the little alien and bringing it into the fold with all the previously integrated parts of me. Everyone gets a seat at the table, and everyone has a voice. That's the rule.” really sounds like you’re growing yourself deeply that’s lovely to hear : ) you said: “ Which isn't to say that the rule has been without exception. I think there have been one or two instances of me finding foreign entities, not in any supernatural sense, but in the sense that once found, the only role they had was to be expelled. I don't remember the specifics, only that it was unusual to me at the time. I suspect they were voices unintentionally planted by unhealthy authority figures from my childhood.” I can relate in some way. Sometimes there can be voices expressing something and instantly we just see right through it as a completely unnecessary negativity and a pattern from the past, old trauma in the system; and this neutral attention to it , is what allows it to be expelled. “ However, that experience isn't on the same level of foreignness as you described. My voices never answer against my will or without my conscious direction. Though, I don't think that's what you're describing either. What you're describing sounds to me like a large-scale form of self-alienation, similar to what I mentioned but broader in scope. Integrating aliens is the trickiest part of the technique, because there's no set method for giving a voice to a part that has never before had a say. It's usually difficult to discern what the alien is doing, or what it wants. Even worse, some aliens are barely verbal, or communicate in images, or some other inconvenient nonsense.” maybe you are just more normal than me haha?. But you have a point, I don’t fully understand it myself. I swear what you’ve just written is more advanced than some forms of therapy . Who needs years of education when you have your own psyche to draw insight from. Thanks for sharing you said: “”It takes a while to process big things. My brain can be half-fried for a couple of days after a significant realization. I'll still be curious even if you take your time “” And how we understand our own experience and our past changes and evolves with time, so any old interpretations just get remodeled over and over, so it might not feel just right to express something when we feel we haven’t reached this proper understanding, because it’s so personal and real to us that we want to give it justice by properly describing it . “Half fried “ haha isn’t it lovely sometimes when things don’t make fully sense and we can just walk around like fools sometimes I’m equally as curious as you ?

All women know deep down that nothing they do or none of their qualities matter if they aren’t hot. Period . That’s it. That’s the post. they can either deny this fact or adapt somehow It’s so fucking existential for me. I have barely felt like I’ve existed for a second of my life , nor do I feel like I can own nor want to own my qualities because of this fact. Literally , literally, I have barely felt real because of this. yes I have had excellent grades all my life. Yes I’ve excelled at sports, during my teens I weight-lifted at a level that qualified me to compete at world class levels almost. Yes I can be incredibly intellectual and formulate myself well and for example in high school people could come up to me and compliment me for my speeches in class. Yes I can be socially charming, people can love my witty energy. I can be anything almost But you know what? not an inch of my being gives a flying fuck about these things, Because for this being, damn nothing hits like being schmexy . Why do I seriously feel like they world and my life could fall apart but if I was just hot then somehow I’d be doing okay anyways. I can be anything almost . BUT WHY IS IT SO FUCKING HARD TO BE HOT I know how hot I am in my energy and “soul” but it’s this fucking meat suit that isn’t expressing that, damn piece of flesh .I’m actually shocked by myself sometimes, how sexy and beautiful and charming and cool I can be in my “energy “ , BUT THIT FUCKING PIECE OF FLESH ISNT REFLECTING THATTTTT

What a gentleman

Omfg. I just went into this section of the forum planning on writing a post asking people for their best music and your post was on the top , thanks I like this Moroccan song : Talet Lghiba

Path and practice only has value if you believe it has any connection whatsoever to “enlightenment “ but it doesn’t make sense to me, not even conceptually . if you claim enlightenment is nothing at all, it makes zero sense then to believe that anything could get you there but sure if you believe it has qualities to it like some ultra clear state or no thoughts state then sure it makes sense that practice and path could get there also: if you claim the importance of any sort of path or practice to get enlightened. Then you are essentially saying you know something about what enlightenment is because you are claiming you know what’s crucial to get there. If you know something about enlightenment then suddenly it has a quality to it and it is SOMETHING, contradicting if you believe it’s nothing at all i Don’t know shit I’m just saying some of y’all not making sense not even on a purely conceptual level .

Damn that’s cold hearted

U so silly

Okay you’re talking from your grave . Got it

Thank you for bringing positive light to my atrocious username (pls Leo let us change them)

Are you talking in your sleep rn

@Yimpa thank you for explaining it at my level

Okay so let’s break it down if it is true…:what is the harm? if it’s not true….was it even much of a spiritual path if it’s so fragile that it’s threatened by such a statement ??‍♀️

I was attracted to this post but damn that language is difficult

You get the message

Be so deeply unbothered by it that she cannot help but to turn it inward on herself

Thanks. I like this funny. I’ve naturally done that since a young age, didn’t know it had a name its a very safe way to experience some sexual energy , in solitude. It can feel very real

I agree with you. I understand all of what you said conceptually and I sense your sincerity and good intention. But I must say that since childhood I’ve experienced this very fundamental alienation from humanity, so in a way reading your post doesn’t resonate as I sense it coming from the very reality I’ve never felt deeply connected to (nor mourned this lack of connection) and when I was connected to it, it revealed itself to me as just a mental construction. something like that

That’s cool. And sounds a little funny too? I’ve also done that naturally. I sensed some similarity between us when I read some of your other responses so I’m not surprised. it’s like activate contemplation and acting like your own therapist and trying to trigger an answer by asking yourself these questions. Did you find answers? Sometimes I haven’t gotten clear answers to my questions although asking for them can plant a seed for it and has value despite. Do you always experience your voices as you?? Sometimes my mind can have a strong almost foreign presence to it….as if it’s outside of me… i will answer the rest of your response eventually. I’m just struggling to communicate properly my understanding of it so it will need some time to

It was openness on your part that triggered me to share

I like your vibe. Maybe that’s something : ) I’m struggling to quote on my phone so I will do in this way: You said: “I’ m a little confused as to how much this is a practical concern, and how much a spiritual one. You say you see your potential very clearly in contrast to your present appearance, which to me means a difference in details; your ears are too big, your skin is blotchy, your fingers aren't long enough, etc and whatever. You already had your nose altered, which is clearly a detail. But you go on to say the details aren't relevant. Are you saying that to you, being hot has nothing to do with your actual appearance? I'm not nitpicking, I'm actually confused.” You are right in your confusion. It was a lack of clarity from my part. What I was trying to say was a response to your questions about how I want to look/how I look. Obviously details matter to ME as I see them very clearly, and they stand in contrast to this ideal. Exactly as you said. What I meant was that the details aren’t relevant for OTHERS to know about online. As a way to say that the answer to these questions aren’t relevant as different women with different appearances could be dealing with the same thing as me so knowing the details to their appearance isn’t relevant to understanding what they are dealing with. Although that could be argued too. You said : ”To me, and I think this is a common conception, hotness and sex appeal overlap. Are sex and your hotness totally separate in your mind? Like, your ability to find sexual partners is irrelevant to your hotness, and being hot is irrelevant to your ability to find sexual partners?” I like that you ask “in your mind” specifically as if you sense that there is not much else to pull from here…..perfectly suited question. Sex can be imagined in a purely physical pleasure kind of way where hotness isn’t that big of a deal, or more in a way that’s connected to sense of self, in the latter case hotness is 100% connected. the other questions. One could improve appearance to attract more potential mates. And it is true, when I have improved my appearance I’ve gotten more male attention. But that’s not the main driver at all, not in the slightest. Actually I feel pretty neutral about the male attention I get generally . It’s more about my own ability to feel sexual in my self and my own body or something, regardless of who pays me attention. What is the joy in attention if you don’t feel you can enjoy the very self that it shines its light on? I’m just being honest here regardless of how crazy it sounds. You said: “Due to your past success weight-lifting and your general manner of determination and self-control, I was under the impression that your health was exceptionally good. I somehow don't think you're going to tell me that you're actually twenty kilos overweight, subsist on a diet of doritos and nutella, and have bowed legs and missing teeth from scurvy. So is there anything about you that's really falling short of the peak?“ First of all. During those years I weight-lifted, I was miserable and severely disconnected from my body. So any health effect from my lifestyle was completely overrun by the negative effects from this disconnection, so much so that I wasn’t healthy even really. I fit the conventional definition of healthy yes. But that definition is pretty weak haha. Also health has for most of my life been pretty conceptual. You read all this stuff about what’s good what’s bad, what happens in the body this and that, but all of that doesn’t get to the root of what this body actually is, beyond concepts. And that’s where I’m trying to get in a way. I want to know my body, what it is at its root. What is this body, actually, no mental filter between, no preconceived notions about it. Tears are flooding down my eyes as I’m writing this so deep it is for me. This connection with my body that for some reason was so deeply severed from early childhood, it’s my deepest desire in a way, to know this body, to live in it so fully. You say : You're welcome :-) “I figured that in this case, before delving deep and making a bunch more assumptions, it was best to at least confirm whether you're okay or under a lot of psychological distress. I'm happy to hear that things are looking up for you.” That’s so sweet of you!!!! you say: “Based on your response to Swarnim and my own intuition, my guess is that your main complaint is a sense of deprivation. Also, possibly due to your competent and individualistic personality, I wonder if you don't isolate yourself a little more than necessary, making it difficult for you to get your needs met. You're really responsive here, though, so these are just sort of (un)educated guesses.” Well you have a point. I do isolate myself quite extremely physically, but for most of my life I’ve not experienced it as significant or even real in the way a lot of people describe their isolation (causing them suffering). I don’t feel lonely as I hear a lot of people describe . I don’t have that connection and sense of realness about society. Very solipsistic existence almost. But I’ve watched a lot of Leo’s content and have been attracted to the energy of these forums so this post was kind of this energy that just took over me and started to express itself here, it barely felt like I wrote it lol this flow of energy just through the words.

I don’t really have a sense of “life” in the conventional way that could be ruined but I sense your sincerity. Perhaps it’s my lacking communication skills, but you can write what I wrote and be coming from different places with it…. you can write the most crazy negative shit and mean it all but still be sane and positive… it’s just fun authentic expression the last question , if we’re gonna speak in conventional terms . My vibe is better every year, some other people have pointed it out too (it’s not true if others don’t see it riiiiiiight???) . So this “obsession” doesn’t seem that bad after all… but thanks ?? Are you okay despite your penis being average ? : ) because you asked me