Kksd74628

@Tyler Robinson So the goalpost is now moved. It isn't anymore about is it dangerous or not, but will it make you crazy and the answer is that it depends. If you aren't stable don't touch grass and if you feel like you could make extra step to experience life then go for it. You said: "bah!!" and I thought you disagreed with what I said. Overall point that is it dangerous is now closed because it all depends on everything and we don't have enough information to make so radical statements.

@Tyler Robinson What part of my text you disagreed with?

@Tyler Robinson It's the mentality behind people who get addicted which is dangerous not the thing necessarily by itself. There are alternative ways to consume weed so arguing that it's bad for your health is out of equation. Also what psychosis even means at the most absolute sense? Bad experience where your ground what is real and what isn't is vanished. So could it be more about perspective than about the state itself? Knowing this we could say that cannabis can be hard for people who aren't prepared and therefore it should be used with a caution like anything else in life. Case closed, peace. Your friend -joNi-

@Carl-Richard I wouldn't want to be conversation police here, but it seems that all the times when people are talking anything related to spirituality they just tell one nugget of information as an attack to other nugget of information. Can't you see that you and @Breakingthewall actually talk about different things. He showed the importance of experiencing something by yourself and you just said that you make duality if you don't see the teacher being you. You are talking in different levels and about different things . Maybe I could make new thread soon about how to communicate with other people on the forum. We on the forum aren't so different after all.

@Inliytened1 Can't you see that you both agree already ? He never said that you shouldn't look inward, but just replied to @Someone here and said that there are benefits in listening to other people. @Breakingthewall The point is not to convey experience, but to convey a way to have one.

@Breakingthewall Point of spirituality shouldn't be reaching state in the first place, but to live life well. Also what enlightenment even means, because there are so many different definition and sides to it. As long as teacher gives you good advices and makes you better person I wouldn't mind listening to one. As long as there is someone who has some information that you don't it is beneficial to listen to him/her. Usually those gurus have some wisdom to convey and it doesn't always need to be something which is related to just spiritual practice. There's word practice for a reason. It's practice to have good life. Peace.

@Someone here I want to point out to you that you aren't really staying in the subject so try to read my texts with more precision and only answer to what is being said. The only thing I am saying is that there's use of listening to someone wise and you're saying that listening to spiritual guru is waste of time. I said that it could be useful if it gives you a new perspective and you aren't really confirming that point I was making. If that statement is correct then you´d see instantly why listening to someone wise is good. Maybe more than one pair of eyes is better than one.

@Someone here I guess you learnt to talk, cook, meditate, do mathematics, write, speak foreign languages etc. all by yourself. If you believe that you should do your own personal journey by yourself and so should I, why are you having this discussion with me in the first place? You're right that I cannot live your life and do meditation for you, but I can give you an idea, perspective or a hint of what you could do. Everyone is just offering an idea and you're correct that the decision is on you if you want to see it or not. That doesn't still make what I say right now useless and if it would you wouldn't be replying to me.

@Someone here The main point is that listening to other's thoughts can help you realize something, because it's usually different way of looking at the thing. That can be extremely fruitful in your personal journey towards wherever you want to go. I'd say it's a luxury to be able to talk to other people, because that alone increases your perspective of things. What you're saying is important thing also; you're captain of your life. The point is learn as much as you can and sometimes the information comes from your thoughts, sometimes from your experience and occasionally from other people. Even if some books are better than others you shouldn't throw worse ones away.

@Consilience Exactly! Even if a direct experience is your best guidance there's an utility to hear different ideas so you could have new insights to almost anything. An insight is new thought that you didn't have and what would be a better way to have them than from someone else who thinks differently than you. It would be incredibly stupid decision to stop listening other people, but still continuing to listen yourself . When you start to treat life as a movie that is being presented you start to appreciate all thoughts no matter where they come. Even your thoughts come from "outside of you". @Someone here Read the thing above and it's answer for your message to Consilience.

@Kalki Avatar It's weird that I'm not sure if you're sarcastic or out of your mind right now .

@Kalki Avatar You sure my brother ?

@Galyna It could be said that love is an energetic relaxation and if you don't feel that energy then it is just zen. Many people don't realize, but we have deep loneliness inside us and when that loneliness goes away and we start to feel more connected then that's what we call love, the realization of connection that was there all the time waiting you. That's as far as you can explain an experience to someone. If you have had similar experience then you understand what I am trying to convey to you. -joNi-

@SQAAD Who said that you are going to be rejected or that there is even possibility to it?

@Tyler Robinson Exactly, I just tried to guide @Seth to see that to change that belief of low self-confidence happens by just approaching girls and proving yourself wrong.

@Seth I believe that I weight 10 kilos more than what I actually weight. How do I change that belief?

@SQAAD Actually you destroy your self-condidence by believing that you don't have it.

@Tboy How could I know if eating something could help my hunger? Also that sounds fear of something. -joNi-

@amanen When you realize that this moment happened before yesterday, you're pretty deep into this work.

@Someone here Haven't you still understood that it's assumption that memory points towards anything actual?

Voting gives people false sense of control over decision making about political, environmental and sociological topics. If you want to have any reasonable impact on how people think you should start writing to big audience, making youtube videos or joining to public discussions. Almost no one of the people voting do know even the basic things about politics and therefore their "opinion" about it doesn't make any sense. That shows why being active about politics and thinking is incredibly essential in order to come into any smart conclusion. Politics is science of how to lead country or humanity to best place possible and there shouldn't be "opinions". They just don't count. There are also other problems in our politics such as there are always sides which by definition means that our politics aren't holistic. It shouldn't be about whose perspective is the best, but how we can combine all the perspectives to one thing and have wise decision based on all the information we got. I also understand the point of voting which just tries to prevent people with more power to destroy people who are lacking it. I even agree that this is a good goal, but I'd say that we should evolve our way of having control about decisions, because voting is just too oldish and superficial. Voting could only work if people who are allowed to vote know politics, system thinking and models like spiral dynamics extremely well and even in that scenario it'd be better to put those people just to place where people actually have control over anything important. We have internet and it should be used like 100x more to talk and discuss about politics, because it is that important in grand scheme of things. It's incredibly stupid that our school system barely teaches us about different political systems and some core points. Also in my school in Finland we had just like 2 required philosophy cources so what the fuck ... As you can't vote in physics you shouldn't in political things, because both should be just truths about which works well to achieve things we value and also what we value are basically same between people. I am now talking in structure level like we all value freedom to express ourself as we like, peace, happiness, love, equality etc. Of course in the content level how we do those things can vary and a lot, but that's not the point I am trying to make. I agree that goverment shouldn't for example force everyone to dance, because based on the science that makes people happiest on average or something. That'd be just idiocy. Good society can be built with or without voting, but right now I am suggesting that without it and by making couple adjustments to how things work we'd be faster where we want to go as a whole. We should have places in every town where people who are interested could practice having political discussions and that'd boost our overall skill of having these conversations and it'd connect people better to "opposite" views. There could be also some teachers who tell when the conversation isn't going to the right direction. As you can see there are millions of different ways to impact and voting is maybe the one of the worst at least how it works right now. -joNi-

@zurew I can't continue on it bacause that is the backbone of any deep conversation. If we don't even have same direction where we're trying to go with our car I can't show you why my path would be better than yours, because it wouldn't because it would just lead you somewhere you don't want to go. So you have to explain that thing I asked from you or we can't go further with this discussion. I aknowledge that otherwise it would just circle around without any progress. So what's your take on my question?

@zurew I am going to answer to this question after you explain to me that how you could have any other value in top of your value hierarchy than love, happiness or peace of mind.

@Carl-Richard Yeah, but the problem you guys are having is that you don't see that I am not trying to break democracy and build weird totalitarian society, but I am actually trying to make it better. Maybe taking voting away would be good or maybe it wouldn't but we can't say that for sure without first having proper conversation about it like we are trying to have right now. Point of thinking from extreme perspectives is that it reveals usually biases, traumas or something else. That's excatly the same thing Leo did with his pedophile example. Let's not go deeper in it in that thread though and I'll give my own take on it later. Basically in the most basic form I am trying to make filter which gives little advatage for people who actually understand the subject which in this case is system thinking, how to lead country and how to think and express oneself holistically. I honestly think that - giving this little advantage for people who study the thing they're going to talk about - is going to have positive impact on our society in a big picture. It's like teaching in school requires going through the learning process first. You can't teach if you don't know what you're teaching. Same goes that you can't impact society positively if you don't know what is going to impact it positively. That's also why people's idea of what makes society better doesn't really matter, because they don't know it. To know it we need to make tests, studies and scientific experiments. We need to study people better what they want in average and what actually makes them the happiest. When we start to have better idea of that, we can the first time start making proper politics for everyone. That's what's required to move from tier 1 to tier 2 type of political decision making.

@Carl-Richard I see how that could be, but I think there are other things which play bigger role in that thing you described such as having scheduled routine, pushing yourself and seeing that you're capable and also dealing with your traumas that try to make you believe otherwise. So I'd say that if what you said would be the only reason not to take voting away I'd say that let's fix people's problems other way and also take voting away. So there are 3 agendas that I have in this thread. To make people more openminded to weird thought games, teach people how to break down complicated subjects and one is for me to see what are all the main points why voting is important.