BadHippie

@Consept Because I don´t think I can give the world my gift if I´m unhealthy / sick. Which the "vaccine" will probably make me. Also I made a commitment to try and reduce the toxins I take inside as much as possible, even if it´s hard. Also as Leo pointed out in a post the vaccine isn´t the solution but a disaster (from my point of view), so it would be unwise to take the vaccine, even if you look at it world-centric. I am pretty sure all the measures won´t end even if I vaccinate myself, there will never be a 100% vaccination-rate ever. That´s just wishful thinking from people who don´t understand the individuality of people. Sure it´s an illusion in the end (from an absolute point of view), but the beauty of reality means that people can experience the life from a limited / individual point of view. They simply change the goals for when the measures end. In the beginning it was 3 weeks lockdown to get down the R-number. Then the R-number was down, the measures continued and the goal changed to getting down the "incidence-number". Then that number was down, the goal changed until everyone has the chance to get a vaccine. Than that goal changed until we have "herd-immunity" (for which the WHO changed the definition conveniently, just like they changed the definition of Pandemix in 2009). Now the goal is basically we will have measures until everyone / most of the people are vaccinated. Until that is the case we will have a new so-called "virus" and we will start all over again. Until we are pretty much dependent on getting vaccines every few month / or maybe once a year. Which I don´t like the ring of it. Not because I don´t like needles, I do test my blood from time to time. But because I don´t want poison inside of me. Of course it depends on what you define as "poison", but for me it´s poison.

@Consept Sure if you want to interpret it that way I don´t think I decide out of a ego-centric view, but you are free to think so. I wish you a nice day

That´s the thing I don´t buy into. Because I don´t believe (after my own research) that there are these so called infectious-diseases in the form our culture understands them. Just a few days ago the CDC said that people who are VACCINATED and the UNVACCINATED have the same chance for transmitting the Virus, if you are correct with everything. Also "healthy people" don´t go into hospital. The hospital is by definition a place for the "unhealthy"... Of course it depends on how you define "healthy people" Our healthcare-system in Germany has been stretched for years (there have been 100s of experts warning about it over the last few years) and we still closed over 20 hospitals in 2020 and fired a lot of health-care workers. I don´t get why we do that in a pandemic, especially when there are already - officially - not enough beds. If you are interested about the virus-theory (very short introduction): https://wissenschafftplus.de/uploads/article/Dismantling-the-Virus-Theory.pdf (Of course you still have to check everything for yourself) I went and made out with people who have been very sick (flu, fever, other so called contagious-diseases) - I didn´t get sick even though I made out hard with them... Of course you could say it´s because of my immune-system working well, but officially every immune-system can be overloaded if the viral-load is high enough I didn´t do this just once, but many many times over the years. I never get sick, even when being with people who are "contagious"... That´s why I don´t buy into that narrative I can explain why some people catch the same "symptoms" after being at a place differently ...

Would be cool if someone could explain to me why it's a good idea to get the shot. I am 25 and probably in the top 0,1% of healthy people in Germany. Here is some stuff I got from my research & experience: People in my age have - on average - a 99,98%+ Survival-Rate when catching COVID-19 I don´t know a single person I consider "living healthy" who got COVID, only people who don´t live healthy The PCR-Test wasn´t developed for diagnosing a sickness I know a lot of people who got "fucked up" after taking the vaccine, some have been super-sick for more than 1 month. And most of them are getting sick more often now, even after the initial "reaction" is over The official death-numbers are super inflated, because they don´t have good epistemology when checking for the cause Intelligent and previously prestigious people are talking about the dangers of the vaccine and get censored... If the vaccine is so effective shouldn´t it be easy to debunk those people? ... Here are a few questions that make me warry: Why are we using the "incidence-number" (in Germany) even though that number doesn´t say anything about the prevalence of the virus in the population? The incidence can be increased at will by increasing the test-numbers... Why aren´t the governments telling people to live a more healthy lifestyle? Instead we get told to stay home, eat chips and be lazy... Why is the media trying so hard to frame people as "Conspiracy-Theorists" and using fact-checkers who aren´t checking for facts? Why didn´t they do necropsies in the beginning of the pandemic (in Germany), if it is a new disease and we need to learn about it? Why are they identifying a positive PCR-test with being infectious, even though in Germanies own Law for infectious diseases there is a different definition... Why are we still doing Lockdowns, when there is no scientific evidence for their use? Why is the media using other countries as horror-scenes but isn´t using other countries to push some hope? Fear makes sick, so that´s contra-productive.... Why are Germany and Austria the only countries with FFP2-Mask Mandates if they are so good? Why are they (German government) telling people there won´t be "special rights" for vaccinated people in 2020 and then starts to push exactly those in 2021? Sure politicians always lie, but they contradict their own statements again and again Why is there almost no Flu anymore? The governments says it´s because the measures work so well, then in the next sentence they say the measures don´t work well enough... Probably more likely that the PCR-Test shows people who have a Flu as positive Why is there no official rule for the "CT-Value" for PCR-Testing (Germany) even after a year if the CT-Value is so important to know if the person is really infectious? Why don´t they give the Blueprint to make vaccines to countries like Bangladesh, India, etc. if we need to vaccinate everyone as fast as possible to stop the pandemic? In the beginning of 2020 they even told us we need to go new ways and stop being so egoistic... Why are they traumatizing children, even though they are irrelevant for the infections events? Why are they vaccinating children, when more children will die from that (if they vaccinate every child in Germany - simple math), that died with COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic? ...

@Loba Can you show me your so called "proof" that the vaccines actually work? Here in germany most people who get sick from COVID have been vaccinated... There has just been a report on NY-Times that vaccinated people spread the so called "delta-variant" just as easily as unvaccinated people... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/health/covid-cdc-delta-masks.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Honestly feels to me like you lost it Leo. You are so arrogant and overconfident, just because you had a few awakening that you completely forget that you still just have one perspective. You seem as if you believe your epistemology is perfect and you don´t make mistakes. You are still human, and humans make mistakes. YOU DON´T KNOW if the virus-theory is correct. YOU DON´T KNOW if the vaccine actually stops the "virus". YOU DON´T KNOW if there will be negative effects in the long-term. YOU DON´T KNOW shit, yet you talk as if YOU KNOW shit. How about re-watching some of your videos, to actually live your own principles again? Calling people unintelligent simply because they have a different perspective just shows how myopic you are. Feels like you regressed to an ego-centric world-view. Like in my eyes you believing this whole "pandemic-narrative" and saying everyone needs to be vaccinated, shows how bad your epistemology is. How do you know if your epistemology is bad or mine? Without truly talking to people with a different view?

Wow, this thread is crazy... How about doing sensemaking together instead of throwing your own perspectives at each other? Where did all the "love" go, you people talk about? What about trying to understand the truth in every perspective? You guys make it look like there is one absolute truth which is relative. How about simply acknowledging that we don´t know shit about this vaccine. And beside the "absolute perspective" there is no single "true" one. So we need to integrate different perspectives to understand what´s going on more deeply. That doesn´t work if you simply label everyone who has a different opinion as "stupid" or "conspiracy-theorist", that´s simply an ego-defense so that you don´t have to listen to it. @Leo Gura How do you expect to understand anything deeply, if you are so lost in the meta-perspectives that you completely overlook mistakes in fundamental epistemology with the details? I can really suggest you this book: https://www.amazon.com/Limits-Medicine-Medical-Nemesis-Expropriation/dp/0714529931/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1P7M9D2I9U82J&dchild=1&keywords=ivan+illich+medical+nemesis&qid=1627989902&sprefix=Ivan+Illich+medic%2Caps%2C278&sr=8-1 - maybe it will help you understand why some people are anti-vax and still have good epistemology

IMO "long Covid" could simply be Post-ICS (Post Intensiv Care Syndrom) or CFS (Chronique Fatique Syndrom). To the death numbers of COVID, keep in mind that the PCR-procedure was never developed to diagnose someone with a sickness. You can prove everything in everything with a PCR-Test... (Kary Mulis said that, who developed the PCR-Procedure) Someone counts as Covid-Death if he had a positive test in the last 28 days (Germany). That doesn't mean he died from Covid, just that they were to lazy to do the actual work.

@Consept I am anti-vax simply because the research I did (studies I read etc.) made me come to the conclusion that the whole Virus-Theory is wrong. Sure I also believe the "vaccine" is not good for me, but not because of fear, but because I checked what´s inside and decided that I don´t want that in my body. The same reason why I only eat plant-based stuff, don´t buy ready-to-use foods, why I filter my water, why I don´t use fluoride in my toothpaste, why I don´t use table-salt... It´s simply because of the research I did, not because I fear fluoride, meat, unfiltered water... I still brush my teeth with fluoride sometimes, or if I´m invited somewhere I eat stuff that´s full with glyphosate. I just try my best to stay healthy and it works pretty well -> I haven´t been sick for 3 years, simply because I learned to reduce the environmental-poisons and detoxified my body (I recommend that to everyone) So tell me a single reason why I should take said "vaccine", when I will get sick from that very likely, because of the nanoparticles inside? Sure people say it´s because of your immune-reaction, but I simply have a different interpretation on health. It´s almost completely based on fear. Otherwise people wouldn´t so willingly give away the rights, people before us had to fight for a long time to get. It really makes me sad when I see people - especially in my age giving up so easily, because they don´t believe they can change anything -> learned helplessness How can anyone really want a future where we have to get a "booster-shot" every few months, maybe years to stay healthy? When I can stay healthy without any shot, simply by being aware of the things in our environment that make us and how our own psyche can make us physically sick.

What he means is that there are no "blue" people, there are people which have blue perspectives, beliefs and/values. But a person is never just in one stage. The model is way to simple to actually really describe the complexity of reality. Sure it's a good way to understand why people do what they do, what people need for development, etc. But no single person can be described by saying: "Person X is blue". That's basically reducing all his complexity and nuance to a single color of a model.

Believing that there are no poisons in todays world is also a pretty limiting believe. I talked to a few dentists (who were also spiritual) and they also said that I shouldn´t use fluoride-toothpaste everyday. I now use it once a week and it works pretty good There are also some studies that show how fluoride in water decreases the IQ of children. Also filtering your water doesn´t hurt, as there is fluoride in there and many other crap (even here in Germany where the water is supposed to be good). The Problem is: "How can society be healthy, if stuff like this gets ignored?" It´s our own task to be healthy and in order to stay healthy you need to really dive into some details. Another point many people don´t see is how poisoned the food is they eat. I think it´s worse in America, but here in Germany we also use this herbecide called Glyphosate. You basically take in glyphosate and your body takes it and exchanges your bodies glyzin with it -> which can lead to many many ailments as it hinders your enzymes to work properly (e.g. adipositas, it destroys your gut flora, which a lot of times can be seen in cases of incompatibility)

Are you your personality? Are you your fear? Are you your own boldness?

How are the so called mutant measured? If there is no new test for it? How do they measure if it is more deadly? You can check the studies and see how people are deceiving themselves.

Probably just the wrong guys you interact. Not all guys are like that. This goes both ways. It´s gotten pretty normal for women to want men just for their dick (at least here in Germany). But you obviously can´t have "conscious sex" that way with someone, because in order to have conscious sex, you first need to be able to let go of anything that keeps you from being present with your partner. And you can´t be present WITH your partner if you see your partner as a dick / pussy to use for your own needs.

Sounds like you would be a good Helicopter-parent to me. Children - if they can develop themselves on their own terms - are pretty aware of their own limits and dangers. I know this because my mother is one of the best (of course subjective) pre-school-teachers here in Munich. How many books about education did you read? And about children in general? The neurobiology of how a brain develops? And so on. I did exactly that as a child (touching a hot stove) and my mother watched me with amusement. Never touched a hot one on purpose again. If you don´t make mistakes you don´t learn. Yeah that´s one way of going at things Good luck with that. We are pretty far away from a life-threatening situation to be honest. I would really suggest trying to integrate - at least some - details. Sure being able to look at the world objectively is pretty nifty. But without details you could be the guy going to McDonalds every single day and believing it´s healthy. Or taking the vaccine believing it actually does something for your health.

@cookiemonster I wouldn´t even go so far as to call them therapies, as therapy suggest that someone is sick. Good to see some other thinking individuals here, who aren´t just reciting something they´ve heard from some so called authority.

@Leo Gura Ever considered that you are the one which mind is twisted a bit? Maybe your holistic doctor knows stuff you don´t know? He basically lives for Health, while you live for Truth? But even that isn´t the case, when I see you on the forum here. You don´t seem to me to be honestly interested in other people´s perspective, you seem to believe your interpretation of reality is always the correct one. You talk so much about principles of living the good life, how society is an illusion etc. But yet you still judge people here a lot, you seem to be super-convinced about so many topics you can´t be certain about. For example: How do you actually know if these so-called vaccines are so finger-lickin´ good? Did you develop them yourself? Study them yourself? Did you check what else besides the mRNA is inside those new vaccines? Did you check if the virus theory is correct? Did you check what´s inside those vaccines? Did you check what studies weren´t done? How the studies were designed by Pfizer and co.? How do you know there won´t be any long-term consequences taking an experimental vaccine? How can you say everyone should take the vaccine, if every body is different? ...

@Terell Kirby How many anti-vaxxers have you talked to? Really talked to on while authentically relating, not demonizing them. Really trying to understand where they come from? I know some and they are mostly green-yellow. Most of them understand Health on a more profound level, or using a different model for health, so they don't want that vaccine. No one of them said Covid is a hoax. Most of them simply believe that there are people who are using this crisis to push some agenda -> opportunism, which you can see in any crisis... "never let a good crisis go by, without using it" Also Anthony Fauci plays some pretty stupid character, I didn't see much of him, but what I saw made me question how so many people believe the bullshit he talks about. He's like the American Christian Drosten... Also these people are ones with a wide range of Concerns (Infrastructure, Education, Health, Economy, Environmental Issues, Our Food being poison, ...) It's not just about Covid for most of them, it's more of a general resistance to the way we as collective develop. They have a different idea how globalization can work in a way that's more healthy to individuals.

I am aware of that, I am not talking about the Lockdown, Green-Passes, etc. being a specific stage. I am talking about the way the Green-Pass gets advertised. Or in the case of Lockdown the way they push it into the awareness of people. In the case of the protests I talk about my own personal-experience with people who are on that protest. @Andrea Marchetti How can you see on a Video of someone is Red, violence? Maybe because the way the media framed those people? Imagine being Stage Orange/Green/Yellow and the state doing something that endangers your survival... I think everyone is able to violence, if the right buttons are pushed. Maybe some super-enlightened Gurus aren´t but I don´t know. Here in Germany people who go to demonstrations get framed as right-wing, conspiracy-theorists, etc. So I went there to check it out - turned out to be Propaganda. I didn´t see a single Nazi, nor conspiracy-theorist, just some "Antifa"-people (who demonstrated against us) who behaved like fascists. Experience is King as Leo would say.

Lockdowns - Stage Blue measure (radically destroy many parts of human society, without even thinking about self-responsibility and the consequences) Anti-Lockdown Reaction - Higher Stage Green (went to some protests in Germany and the people there, especially the younger ones are super developed compared to the average students) Restrictions - Stage Blue / Orange (Again there is no real self-responsibility, at least here in Germany, Sweden is different for example) Green Passes - Stage Orange (People can´t chose how they define their own Health anymore, it´s the start of a biodigital-authoritarianism from my point of view) - No one should be able to force anyone to anything, that just create for Trauma Anti-Green Pass - Stage Green / Yellow (Mostly people who see the inherent problems with medicalizing the whole world) -> A book I recommend here is Medical Nemesis: The Expropriation of Health by Ivan Illich (it´s from 1976 but super relevant) Novax / Provax discussion is all over the place, there are Stage Green / Yellow people, Orange People etc. like Leo (High Green / Yellow) who fell for the Ideology of Vaccines being the absolute good, I believe he is pretty biased on this topic (maybe because of health-reasons? -> more fear?) Then there are Stage Orange politicians who push for it There are Stage Blue people who are against it There are Stage Yellow people against it ... Of course all of this is sold in the form of Green-Values (Solidarity, We are all one, Have to work together etc. etc.) - but it´s mostly about virtue-signaling. -> It´s all because those evil conspiracy-theorists and stupid trump-followers (pushing responsibility away from yourself). -> Yet we can still see that we live in dysfunctional systems, after all the talk in March 2020 of us - as humanity - having to change the way we interact and work together... if it was really about saving people with the vaccines, why still insist on intellectual property? People paid for the research and development with their tax-money... There are factories set up in a lot of eastern countries, but they can´t produce... Why if the goal is to vaccinate everyone? -> Still all about money not about health Of course this is all just one interpretation, interested to hear how other people try to make sense of this with spiral dynamics

@Akira Definitely not true for Germany as well. Same goes for Austria. I just checked UK. Crazy... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993879/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_15.pdf Table 6: Attendance to emergency care and deaths by vaccination status among Delta confirmed cases (sequencing and genotyping) in England, 1 February 2021 to 7 June 2021. 33,206 Delta variant cases admitted to the hospital 19,573 unvaccinated, 13,633 vaccinated (one or two doses) 23 people of the unvaccinated people died (0.1175%); 19 people of the vaccinated (0.1393%) Increase of 18.6% in the death-rate compared to the unvaccinated 1,785 patients had both doses (14 days prior to admission into hospital) 12 died (0.6722%) Death rate more than 5 times higher than the unvaccinated Sure the data could be wrong, or I did some mistake. Or maybe they died randomly, from some other cause, but that arguments works for both sides. Also this is basically the same as in Germany. Feels more like you are jumping to conclusions to be honest. Not sure if that is true for US, but definitely not true for Germany (and the last few years). Higher journalistic standards are long gone here in the Mainstream (even though the citiziens pay them). What interests me is how Leo´s claim came into being, that 99% of people dying from Covid (US) in hospitals are unvaccinated. Maybe there is something else going on? It should be the same virus there. So that can´t explain the difference.

Aren´t you doing the same as you just told before with regards to the government? You are the government... So in a sense you also are a conspiracy-theorist. By labeling someone else as "other" (in this case conspiracy theorist) you simply deny their truth. Maybe they seem selfish and ignorant to you, but to me you seem selfish and ignorant, when saying stuff like this. Conspiracies are real, just check history... So why should every so called "conspiracy-theorist" be only full of shit? Sure there is some bullshit in everyone. But there is also a kernel of truth in every perspective. I talked to some so-called "conspiracy theorists" and actually realized that they are (the ones I talked to) doing a better job at sensemaking and are a lot less ideological with their perspective than most people who think "Everyone needs to be vaccinated for the so called absolute-good". That´s just blind dogma and way to unnuanced to be a good interpretation of the current situation. Don´t almost all people have beliefs that are "conspiracy" in a sense that it´s untrue information? Using "conspiracy theory" to not listen to someone´s perspective is pretty low conscious and saying it´s all about arguing about which science is true isn´t what really matters to the people who are labeled "conspiracy theorists" by the government and media. I did my research (in germany) and found that the people who are going to demonstrations and are labelled conspiracy theorist are actually anything but that. They are simply fed up with the government not caring about their own set of values. Some values I often heard are: Freedom and Free Choice of Medication and Bodily Autonomy - Can´t say I don´t want that stuff to be honest. How would you feel if the government would decide that eating meat is prohibited and everyone has to be vegan? Because science says it´s best for everyone? Would you simply let go of your own belief that eating carnivore is something you need for your health? Or simply put your own agenda back because the government says so?

The Undercover Hippie

@Harlen Kelly There is actually a lot of "evidence" supporting his claims. One of the greatest dangers to humanity is our habit to roll out technology - we don't fully understand yet - in a way that's super low conscious. We can see this in so many areas in our society, from our food supplies to the way we interact with each other. I also believe 5G could be a big concern, especially if we roll it out globally, or at least in most areas, as we won't be able to collect good data anymore... So this is a valid concern in my eyes. How about contributing something to the discussion, instead of trying to defame him by playing the "conspiracy theory" card.

I said "mostly". This means to me that not all modern medicine is about fighting the symptoms. I also know how the vaccine works. Also you can die of both either vaccine or COVID-19. Sure you can argue there are less people dying from the vaccine than from COVID-19, but please stick to the facts. It's not that the vaccine is completely without risks. But still, I already made clear in my post that I use a different model for health (medicine) than most of you guys here on the forum do. So basically you tell me I should fear the virus? Why would I, if my model tells me otherwise. What you do is "generalization" to me, you make it look like most COVID-19 casey will have damaged lungs or whatever forever, this is completely untrue. 99,99% of people at my age (not counting in that I am more healthy than 99% of people imo) will survive COVID without lasting damage.