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The ICJ ruled that it’s a plausible case for genocide - will take years for the final verdict if it ever comes. Collective punishment is very clear and evident though. Genocide spans a broad spectrum. At its mildest interpretation, it could be fears of cultural or demographic displacement, as seen in some reactions to immigration. At its most stark its the outright and deliberate extermination of an entire group of people. It’s not always a single sudden event but can be a lengthy process in the making. The worlds watching tracks being laid out for a disaster train, with a starving, trapped population and IDF gearing up for their Rafah operation. That's why even Israel’s own allies are straightening their backs and discourse now - even big names among the American right like Joe Rogan, Alex Jones and Candace Owen are calling it as such which will impact the collectives view on the conflict. Maybe it’s just the trajectory of what’s coming and what’s occurring that is getting clearer - and people don’t want to be seen as being on the wrong side of history.

The problem often is that religion loses its breath and essence when it dances with dogma. Its own followers inflict damage skeptics never could. Also, when people use the term religion what are they usually referring to exactly. Traditions and societal customs or practices are often conflated with religion which is of the spiritual domain, not of the operational domain of how a society should best function. They become like scaffolding built around the raw, pulsing truth of essential religion and become one and the same that when you critique tradition people take it as a attack on religion. I guess for the awakened one, religion isn't just superstition, but eternal truth colorized through mythic story. They can discern whats literal to what may be metaphorically pointing to the transcendental. Historic descriptions of the past aren't taken as prescriptions for the future - records of history aren't always taken as road maps. That doesn't mean we can't extract timeless wisdom, but that societies can age out of certain practices and that tradition becomes a guide and not a jailer. The predicament of the debate between the atheists vs the theists is that their both coming at the same reality from different vantage points yet think they are talking about different realities. Atheist materialists see existence as a clock, ticking without a clockmaker. Religious theists see the clockmaker in every tick and tock like a divine hand orchestrating everything. Atheists can reduce God and existence to a mechanical self-sustaining machine whilst theists can personify God and existence. Both hold fragments of truth which is why discussions can be frustrating. Science questions the operations and how of existence whilst religion is a quest for the one operating behind existence- the one steering, infusing, and expressing itself through existence. Found this video interesting. From 14:07 speaks on why societies always seem to have a religious impulse however that may be manifest.

This isn’t news but analysis related to the recent news of the resolution: From the tweet: “So never before have we been able to see in such an obvious way the immense contrast between the rules-based order and international law. And there's no going back, the curtain was pulled: if they hadn't noticed before, the world now knows for sure that the US (and Israel of course) is quite literally a rogue state, operating outside international laws and norms, and outside the most fundamental moral principles. There's no overstating how consequential this is for the integrity of international relations. By doing so, the US effectively destroys the world order it largely created after WW2 because it effectively tells everyone that the set of institutions, rules and norms that underpin it are meaningless. We're effectively now in a world system where everyone realizes the police, the government, the basic set of beliefs, have become completely corrupted. This changes everything.”

Maybe this source is okay: https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793420 IDF Brig.-Gen. (res.) Amir Avivi: A US State Department official claimed that Israel "systematically" sexually abuses Palestinian women. If Israel’s own allies are questioning Israel to this extent you know things have gone too far.

Yoga can orient and guide your body's existing systems and structures toward a state of bliss, but it doesn't reconstruct or re-engineer those systems and structures. It doesn't grant immunity from the world. The focus shouldn't be on magnifying such assertions to the point they hinder practitioners. Especially if many of them already harbor superstitions, belief in miracles, and a mythic interpretation of religion.

Providing dots doesn't mean connecting them in a way that suits a narrative. I haven't commented, just provided some links to provide food for thought. Whats your take on the situation so far? Who benefits from this and what purpose could it serve?

Even the right wing are dividing as they can't remain silent any longer or be seen to be 'on the wrong side of history' in retrospect as Israel continues and defies the worlds condemnation. The US initially plays the role of an accomplice, only to later paint a target among their ally as the protagonist villain. By scapegoating Netanyahu, they conveniently sidestep scrutiny of their own institutions and elites that facilitate his regime's actions. This just shields these institutions from accountability and evades the need to change them and disrupt invested interests. Ultimately, it shifts the burden of guilt onto others while protecting their own interests.

Haven’t gotten into it yet but from the comments this seems to be a good back and forth.

I always remember this old video of Robbie Williams as a display of charisma and self amusement. Though not a parallel example to Jack Black because one could say he’s good looking but still.

Spiritual essence lives in and through the elemental - elements that perish and are subject to the laws of entropy. You can orient the software of your biology towards bliss or despair but you can't reprogram/alter the hardware of it. Biology is the iron track life runs on - whilst you can switch lanes, God or evolution hasn't yet decided to lay down new tracks - and neither can you.

Maybe it's worth distinguishing that enlightenment is about transcending and becoming one with the light, stepping beyond the tangible world, whereas spirituality is about embodying that light within the physical world, respecting both its beauty and honouring the laws of nature that form is bound to. Elevating your consciousness doesn't erase the physical reality you're rooted in. It might unlock certain innate capabilities, but it doesn't free you entirely from your genetic blueprint and the limits the structure of physical reality has upon you. State of being doesn't obliterate the structure of reality you experience those states within. We can't cut our connection to the tangible; human form is the vessel through which the intangible (formless) expresses itself. Our bodies are the canvas for the spirit's expression, our bones are a structural framework to support various states of existence. Without physical form, experiencing the transcendent or any state of being would be impossible. The mantra meditation of 'you are not the body, you are not the mind' gives the false impression that you can un-need what you need as a incarnate human rather than honouring the form you're incarnated into. More accurately, it's that you are not JUST the body, or JUST the mind, but a spirit that animates the body and the mind. Spirituality isn't about disassociation from the physical domain but integration with it.

Someone should start a company called Spirit social with this as the sales copy haha. Smooth talk the atoms of life and engage in the pore penetration of reality.

Lots of good docs and shares to dig into here. Some updates: Canada has reinstated UNRWA funding and halted arms sales to Israel. Israeli spokesperson Eylon Levy suspened from UK: https://news.sky.com/story/israeli-spokesperson-eylon-levy-suspended-after-reports-of-row-with-foreign-office-13098754 Falling dominoes of support and patience by Israel's allies with no end in sight. Hard to see any solution with Hamas or Bibi/far right in charge. It's almost as if a solution has to be imposed externally by the US/allies. Odd that they supply arms with one hand and build a port of aid with the other.

Another 100+ page Isreal Gaza thread incoming - we had some good times in the locked one haha. We’re like a dysfunctional family at a Christmas dinner with a love hate relationship. As long we don’t get toxic to the level below: Hope everyone’s doing good.

The dead horse just got revived with this haha Though in general I prefer the term and act of discussion over debate. Debate implies a held position one side is debating for or against and is closed off to changing it when presented new information or perspectives.

@Nivsch Bro it's human to react, but inhumane to react disproportionately. A leader has responsibility to be careful with his words because they hold weight and ring in the ears of the nation. It isn't only his speech but the actions of the state following it. The world gave 5 minutes of solace to Israel and a green light to address the issue but its been 5 months now and the judgment being made world wide is that Israel has gone too far. Israel's claim that their approach is security-centric doesn't hold up. If a house or shop gets robbed and the people in it are massacred in the process, fortifying security means installing locks, cameras and security guards - security is about being defensive and not going on the offensive. Justice involves going after the violent perpetrators, not destroying, blockading and starving the entire town in pursuit of them and claiming every innocent life lost as collateral damage or a human shield. Whilst clash of values is a factor to why Israel/Palestine is a popular topic, a larger factor is the universal ethics and lessons learned from the horrors of the Holocaust that were crystallized into international law to prevent anything similar happening again or anything even on the lower end of the spectrum of Genocide such as ethnic cleansing which is a subset of it. Ideology shouldn't trump humanity. People can accept Zionism if it means statehood and safety for Jewish people but not ultra-Zionism if it means a Jewish ethno-state at the expense of indigenous people. Ultra-Zionists hijack the suffering of the Holocaust for their own ends. They nationalise and racialise Judaism and Islamists globalize Islam.

@Vrubel @Nivsch Then there’s Isaac Herzog, the Israeli president, who declared: “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true.” No demarcation between militants and civilians exists here. Yoav Gallant, the minister of defence, was a repeat offender. On 9 October, in an unashamed commitment to collective punishment, he declared Israel was imposing a “complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” he said. “We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.” ''It always starts with words. Genocide is largely remembered for its depraved acts, but it is incubated in language. Words can cast dark spells on a population, stirring hatred in those who otherwise see themselves as moderate, humane, normal.'' Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/13/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes Besides that, it is disrespectful to protest outside a new Holocaust museum. Holocaust memorials shouldn't just signify the crime of crimes humans are capable of and once committed, but that they also shouldn't come close to anything of the like in present day.

The reason why Israel/Palestine are so popular compared to other world conflicts (Yemen, Sudan) come down to the stakes, sacredness, story, distinctness and time. The stakes of the players involved or who could potentially get involved are higher (Iran) leading to a regional war with global ripple effects due to being in a geopolitically strategic region full of resources the world depends on (the global economy hinges upon and is sensitive to energy prices) The land is sacred to the abrahamic faiths which make up over half the world’s population. Large civilisational stories are clashing and weaving their prophecies into existence hastening their depiction of end times and return of prophets. The story resonates along lines that many people relate with historically - racism, colonialism and the oppressor/oppressed frame which is taken to an extreme extent these days ie the disdain for power or hierarchy as bad. It’s not that power or who holds it is uniquely bad but the manner of how it’s used or wielded. When distinctly different groups fight it’s more starkly visible compared to the murkiness of civil unrest which from the outside isn’t as clear and as is seen as internal conflict not to get involved in. The time the cause of the Palestinians has had to build over decades and soak into the psyche has been decades. Many global humanitarian groups, activists and journalists have established networks who’ve been covering it for a while. This inconvenient fact is overlooked by ultra Zionists as it goes against the narrative that October 7th started in a vacuum. Of course they’d rather emphasise much older times thousands of years back and make ancient claims as justification to the land. Israel is the Wests creation and America’s baby. As the West control a lot of the global narrative of course the focus will be on what’s occurring there. A point unique to Gaza is they have no where to flee and are caged into a small area where as in other places civilians can move to remote parts of their country where no conflict takes place. That this conflict is live-streamed and one of the parties involved dehumanise, mock and uploads tik toks only further infuriates the world.

Exactly. Whats all this destruction for then - are they playing whack a mole with the tunnel holes? Israel aren't invading a foreign country because they already occupied (past tense) another territory where people existed - yet if this past context is missed then everything points to October 7th as the start date of the current conflict. Even if these terrorists didn't have the context of resistance as a cause for their atrocity, does it justify collective punishment? If the unholy trifecta of Satanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich dictate policies that cause Palestinians harm, deny them their right to self determination (two state), or orchestrate a attack - does that give Hamas or Palestinians the right to mow through the entire Israeli population and starve them in order to get to the culprits? Imagine then if Lebanon, Jordan and Syria blockade and don’t let any Israelis flee for their safety. They are now held captive on land where Hamas would demolish all their buildings and homes and drop dumb bombs on them in order to 'target' the evil Israeli leadership. Would this be justified? Would we expect the world to stop this massacre of the Israelis and to boycott and pressure Hamas? Would we question the millions across the world protesting this and call them dumb or Islamophobic for doing so when thats all they are able to do with the power they hold in the face of a ongoing massacre that the worlds top court has ruled as a plausible genocide? As for the hostages the Israeli leadership really care about - they rain down 2000lb dumb bombs onto a tiny strip of land where those very hostages are held. Could it be that the hostages are a smokescreen for the vested interests ulterior motives just as weapons of mass destruction were? Can these ulterior motives easily be known through the blatant language and self confession by the political class? Even the US are questioning and critiquing Israel now and admit to the death toll and use of dumb bombs. We can ask why tunnels exist in the first place. Further ask - does destroying infrastructure destroy the idea and cause of those who built it. What is there cause? If Israel aren't able to or are a hinderance to that cause (Palestinian self determination) will that cause ever die or will it exist until those people who seek liberation are cleansed from the land or subjugated under a occupational 'security' apparatus similar to what exists in the West Bank? Can you solve political problems with military solutions?

They ruled there’s a plausible case for genocide taking place (the final verdict takes years) and they listed tangible measures to be followed which Israel didn’t but instead violated mockingly via IDF members own hands. The majority of Israeli society might be moderate but the issue is with the groups that wield influence and set the country's policy and direction. Considering its relatively small population size, the extreme rhetoric coming out of Israel seems disproportionately high. When examples of such rhetoric are highlighted, accusations of cherry-picking often follow by ultra Zionists, yet if an equivalent volume of footage were shared depicting Muslims with the same extremist elements they feel fine to attribute these views to a 2 billion-strong Muslim population, branding them together. Extremist groups are a reality across all societies, including Islamic ones. The crucial factor is the extent of their influence over a country and its citizens. It's important to consider whether these radical voices have political allies who share their views, or if they are marginalized, wielding influence only within their own 'sacred' communities and places of worship. The distinction between political support and isolation can significantly affect how these groups impact broader society and policy. Article about the above Rabbi (whose school is funded by the government - should it be defunded? Should aid be cut to Israel just like UNRWA?) - https://jewschool.com/174135-174135 One of the notable Israeli historians;

Well said and good example of how UNRWA funding is being reinstated (and increased) by Canada now. Thats exactly the point of public commentary and shifting the narrative rather than have it maliciously controlled by vested interests. The damage has already been done as funding had been pulled but hopefully the return of some funders help alleviate the suffering of the Palestinians. I started my longer comment with this: ''Theirs a difference between denying atrocity and debunking amplified stories about atrocities which have been used for propaganda - to propagate and justify further atrocities.'' Meaning, false claims are used to cause untold suffering which is why they need to be checked - in the hopes that things can be de-escalated. The same should happen on false claims being made of Israel and Israelis which only deepens the hate. As Lina said, with new information we change our perspective - if Israel allows investigative bodies to verify claims and they come out to be true most people would happily accept them. The point is that in the name of 1 day of atrocity occurring, the response of 150 days of atrocities and suffering towards the Palestinians is being justified by the Israeli side (human shield, hostages). If we want to view it just by the numbers which is silly to be comparative like that but just as a thought exercise to get the point across: Could we say that the Palestinians having suffered for 150 days versus Israel having suffered for 1 day - means they are now justified to cause 150x this amount of suffering in their own self defence and revenge towards Israel? That would be 60 years of pain (almost a whole life time). Imagine how silly it would be if they justified that and said their trying to get to the Israeli government and the likes of Ben Gvir etc but they need to get through the Isreali population who they call human shields and blockade the entire population into starvation as a tactic to pressure the few extremist elites as a negotiation tactic.

Theirs a difference between denying atrocity and debunking amplified stories about atrocities which have been used for propaganda - to propagate and justify further atrocities. Nothing wrong in questioning distortions or exposing propaganda, especially with sources. Denying that any atrocities took place only delegitimises the person in denial of them - but people aren’t denying October 7th was atrocious, just the stories that have plot holes in them or lack evidence. Regarding the flour massacre “The IDF claims Israeli troops only began firing on the Palestinians because the soldiers “felt threatened” by them, which goes to show that there is no atrocity Israel could possibly commit where it wouldn’t frame itself as the victim - for they are the eternal victims.” At least a lot of Western media and institutions don’t deny atrocities taking place in Gaza due to the visible evidence - they just leave out the perpetrator committing them. All the Western elites say they are ‘concerned’ about this ongoing crisis yet do nothing to stop it. Biden has ‘angry calls’ and apparently name calls Netenyahu yet does nothing about it. Optics for election year? or is it that true power to affect change lies elsewhere. Either way, the US can’t claim to be for peace and concerned about loss of life or call for ceasefire then veto it 4 times in 5 months at UN like a pariah state and a liability to world peace and harmony. The US tells Israel to ‘be careful’ in how they commit a plausible genocide whilst their military industrial complex loads the gun for them. Like a bad parent giving their unhinged child a bottle of wine and saying don’t do too much now little Timmy.

The fact that some nations (Japan and Netherlands) security export contractors are cutting ties and restricting trade of arms with Israel is telling of what the situation has devolved too. Even corporate entities that are notoriously amoral and don’t care for morals but mainly for material gain are sacrificing profits to protect themselves from being liable in a ‘plausible case for genocide.’ Whether they are putting justice before profit or not - the point is that even out of self interest they consider Israel’s actions after the ICJ ruling to be on the wrong side of history - a side of the bed they don’t want to be seen in rolling around with Israel which will face future prosecution.