fopylo

I've been trying the basic meditation of focusing on the breath from the stomach. As I've understood already, thoughts are and will not go away by "pushing" them aside. I just let them be. But when I'm focusing on the feeling, I've realized I still have thoughts, very vague, about the general course of my breath and maybe some dots resembling the tingling of the feeling. How can I focus on the feeling of my breath without having thoughts? When I let go of those thoughts by returning attention to the feeling of breathing, different thoughts arise. It's quite trippy. I feel as though I'm trying to control my attention, monitoring my breathing as a result. Oh, and not to forget that part of that meditation is that you then focus on the tensions in each body part and 'release' it by letting it go. Bottom line is, always when I return attention to breathing I still have thoughts, and many times discordant thoughts. I don't know how to meditate or to do this "letting go" shit

Lately I am going to bed super late (like 4:30 - 5:30) every night. I wake up at around lunch time. Personally I don't really think this is something bad, but sometimes it seems that my father is worried and friends are telling me this isn't ok. I don't understand. I don't understand why I still have the energy to keep going. Should I keep going or force myself to sleep. I can easily keep going to 6:00 even. So basically I don't know if it is even that healthy, and if I should do something about it.

@Eph75 I mean, honestly it doesn't feel super urgent for me to fix this "problem". Maybe only for the last day or two I feel like I want to wake up at earlier hours. I set a goal for myself to wake up at 12:00 pm, and it worked only once (I planned to go for a morning run hoping it will inspire me to actually wake up and not go back to bed. I actually woke up at 11:45 because my dog started barking lol). Those skewed hours don't really support the desire of wanting to wake up a little earlier. However, I did get to enjoy myself the experience of staying up late in the late hours when everyone is sleeping and no one can bother me in some way, I am more free and less worried. That is the good side of it. Yeah, today my father told me at family supper time in a humorous and worrying tone that it isn't good and that I'll need to start to change that. Not in a serious manner. But he gave examples such as chores that my sleep cycle isn't helping me to do. Don't get the idea that he is stiff though. I don't think I'm such a responsible person, but I feel I have improved. This feeling is backed up quite a lot - my father feels confident when he lets me drive (even though it's been a while since, and sometimes I did some quick decisive moves which some of them he asked me to do like he's confident in me, trusts me), and also is less worried about me going for the first time over seas alone (well, with another friend for his first time as well), and is actually quite supportive. I've been in camp which I believe also adds a bit. But between me and myself, if being honest with myself, there is still more to go, thinking about what society defines responsible, more like what I believe my parents define it as. Perhaps it could be a phase, like many phases. It feels good but not forever. Preferences might change I believe. Yeah, I have lots of phases like this as well lol. Doing those things, I've left behind ever since getting into spirituality, at least what I believed spirituality to be. This "stage orange" stuff just didn't vibe (perhaps negative judgment, emotionally wounded from it, suppressing frustration). Now I am excited to start bringing that stuff back into my life as I understand better spirituality. I want to play this game man

Wait, is he banned from here or just demoted?

@Gregory1 where did he even say that?

@Gregory1 Then how am I supposed to contact him?

@Nahm Hi, I'm sorry this isn't the right place to write this but for some reason my pm's aren't reaching you and it says that you're leaving my conversations. I'd like to know why this is happening because I'd like to keep talking with you..

I must say that this is one of the most eye opening books I've ever read, like EVER. Seriously this book goes in depth about our structural orientation in life. Talks a lot about the difference between the reactive-responsive orientation and the creative orientation. Anyway he talks about the importance of focusing on what you want, or at least, be true to yourself about what you want and know that. He says that at any given moment you could answer the question "What do I want?" Now the problem that many people face is trying to find the "What" in "What do I want", by trying to look deep inside them, trying to search deep within their soul. This process doesn't work since you're essentially trying to solve a problem, trying to eliminate your barriers. The author says that the way you find your what is that you simply make it up. You simply make up what you want. This notion can be quite unusual, and I still find it hard to 'make up' what I want and still have the tendency to try to search deep inside. For anyone with a very good understanding on this matter, I'd like to understand what he meant, and it would be even better if you had read that book

haha, lol. Am I fucking kidding myself? Who do I think I am? Did I really think I'll be able to get out all of life's problems with simply believing that meditation and mastering my emotions would solve it all? Seeing my brother, who is younger than me in 2 years already gaining lots of success for his age... Let me start from the beginning: I am a young man, 19 years of age, have always been a talented person, whatever I decided to put my hands on I've managed to get a good grip of it. I've done well in some areas of school, my peak being finishing mathematics at 10th grade with a very high score. My piano skills are very great. I am making effort socializing and therefore had some great experiences at camp. But this wasn't enough to cure this thing which is bothering me... I am still not getting anywhere, with this so conceived "potential"! My brother, who is all day on the computer is not such a great student, especially in maths, almost exact opposites. This guy has been editing fortnite videos for big YouTube channels and is making like 300$ weekly, weekly! I'm not around him much since I'm still at camp but it seems like he is going out much more, mostly to play basketball with his friends. Now that was surprising since he doesn't do much sports (doesn't eat healthy) and I thought he has only like 1-2 friends. And, he also bought himself a fucking CAR. It is obvious that my brother has a skillset, understands business, managing well with his friends, oh and he is also starting to get good grades, better than mine. You know, this is quite funny... Not too long ago I used to genuinely worry about him. I used to worry about his health, about his richness of life, heck even tried getting him to go to the same camp I'm in (for the next gen) with the help of a friend from camp. Haha, this is so jokes... Reminds me of what my mom once tolled me, "you don't need to worry for him". I don't even care now if my brother thinks the same for me. Look how things fucking turned out. I honestly thought that my life will be very great, as just this was a common pattern for me, that things eventually turn out for my favor, has been like that for me in many things. Now look - No concrete skill for the market, confused about my future career/business, shit position in the army, not so much money like my brother. Man I need to calm the fuck down with this spirituality. It doesn't feel that good, I'mma focus on this real life don't care what spiritual ideas you try to install in me now. Too much spiritual conceptualizations turns into the deadliest traps. Yeah I am experiencing jealousy I know, and I can express the anger (which I'm doing now), and allow discouragement to follow... Right.. @Nahm But this then makes me think "ah.. good, problem solved because there are no problems to solve, it's all about raising your vibration" which does feel better but will keep me stuck if no new action is taken. It is also true that I do not always feel this way, that I must start taking real action. I don't like imagining "my future life" which will involve hard discipline and shitty work and being miserable. I can let that thought go, but I'd love to go a step further than simply letting the thoughts go, because usually I stop there, after alleviating the situation.

I can think of stuff you could do for enjoyment but not much for selling. If I'm going against it, feeling not so good, I'm suppressing feeling. Yeah but you're contradicting yourself as you just said that thoughts are deceptive, so when you listen to feeling you're feeling the thoughts of future and how things might be. This is an assumption I am not doing it. I am comfy. Maybe thoughts are holding me back from trying new things, but idk. Perhaps this could be one of those phases?

@EmptyVase Wow this is actually a fucking beast way to look at it, great mindset. Thanks. So then the last question remains how do I find what I simply enjoy? It needs to be something that can add value to others though, and something I can sell. I am having thoughts about a part-time job I should get in the break before going to camp and most of the jobs that come up in thought don't feel the best. I believe you have times when faced with options and that none of them feel very good but you need to go with one of them anyway. But this is talking only about a part time job. Yesterday I was having some thoughts... About people who I know and that I envy. My brother, as I said already. Also a kid back from high school that was always good with achieving stuff, always confident, a pro trickster (backflips and all those tricks), has a beautiful girlfriend, wrote a fucking 500 and something page fantasy book that he is advertising and selling well, was interviewed on tv because of it, has a good position in the army. Fucking jealous. Man I'm like all day in my room on my laptop, sometimes going out (was on a short break from camp). It is kinda vague for me to 'try things out'. I don't also really feel like going out of my way to try knew stuff (even if deep down I want a better life). Basically in a rut - having repeating thoughts and being 'stuck. Yeah this is the kind of life I want - One that has challenges and is fun, to feel like the beast I really am, this almost animalistic instinct lol Hmm.. Not to go all in on one thing, but rather commit to this trial and error process.. makes sense. For the question - to sit comfortably in your room chilling, in your comfort zone. I believe this requires some shift in focus. A drive one must have to embark on this game with such enthusiam, something that will move an individual to take action. I am quite scared trying things out, but I have desires. Fucking hell. The things you are saying feel just so right, like why isn't it the case for me. I've had periods in my life when life really felt like this game.

@Personal Shaman Ok but I don't really want to do coaching, don't feel like I'm ready for it, plus, it doesn't quite feel right, at least for now. What was the business if I ay ask? @EmptyVase But like I believe I said, massive value provider in what? I hope you notice how this could potentially put pressure on me, putting this pressure on myself. Not only do I not know what to do (as well as the fears in going all in on a business that I don't know how I will act), but also to be a massive provider, in other words, it sounds like a real 'all in'

@Personal Shaman Focusing on making the money brings the belief that I don't really have the commitment and sharp skill to do it. Trust me man I've tried this KDP a few months ago - didn't like any bit of it, wasted lots of money, and made only like 1 dollar. Tried an online business with Shopify last year and no sales. I didn't like it that much and I felt like I'm forcing myself. Above all I also need to enjoy it. Maybe I just didn't find what I love yet (business wise).. I do not want to be broke. I don't think of myself highly like I can sell anything unique. I don't have expert knowledge like other people, plus I don't want to build a personal image of myself on the internet of something I'm not yet sure is my life purpose.. Doesn't matter. I want to work anonymously. Sometimes in the future I presume I could get into Amazon FBA. But again, this whole money thing isn't something that's always burning in me. I have some stocks in some shitty brokerage account that my father helps me with it, but I'm not really following it much. Quite averting it. What businesses have you done? More like, what methods did you use to create money? Wow. This actually makes way more sense. Thanks for opening my eyes. I guess you mean being present. Lately I feel like I've become better at meditating and something new I've started to do was to use the breath (the intention of breathing) to "gather" the current experience (thoughts, emotions, sensations) to the center, home, the place of things being true, truth. This is naturally expressed by being felt. And it was really insightful, like it isn't about reaching to feel better, but rather feeling the experience (like I wrote) and accepting it with love - it's relaxing. I can still feel anger, worry, but they are experienced now. I guess you could say that what you really want is to feel emotions in general, ever deeper. It seems as though it was quite obvious from the start the way you say it It is out of curiosity that I want to know. Also, perhaps it can help me in talking to you while knowing where are you in your life (in the material world) and how well I can relate to you

Oh great, my brother just sent me on Discord that he created a sick music beat.

I'll be honest with you, most of my life it actually seemed like they favored me over him (this is not necessarily the case but I just got more attention because I was quite "gifted" in some areas and had more interesting things happening in my life). Now he gets it all, and I can actually see how my father likes him. They really don't seem to worry much about him and trust him more. I wish I could also have more trust from my parents, not that I don't (I am at camp travelling so I guess this gives them enough trust. And my father is ok with the idea I fly overseas with a friend), but the trust you get from knowing where you're going with your life. I don't want to necessarily assume that. He is obviously managing to maneuver himself to high places. But yeah, who knows, I don't know if his emotional life is that rich. You know, I can actually quite bear it. I've improved a lot last year and I am able to be happy for his successes. True, I most likely couldn't bare living in his footsteps but I could help him gain more success. But why are you saying that? This is exciting to hear. Even more exciting is the fact I'm 19 and started this journey like a year ago, and the amount of insights I've got and my understanding from Nahm puts me in a very great spot. I sometimes have the thoughts of "wow, imagine then how I would be in a year from now, heck, at 25, even 21!" But I must not get caught up too much in those concepts because at these ages life is taking turns and I need to practically be ready for them. It seems almost like his life purpose. He's extremely good at it, like a prodigy my god

@Personal Shaman Most of the time I am following desires that are more unique to me (not necessarily following them but at least acknowledging them)... It's just that things are starting to get more real and I also need to survive in this life, you know. also, can't find myself to be super unique for the market place. I realize that focusing on solving problems keeps you stuck in the realm of thoughts, and what you really want is to feel better. What you're referring to is a hunch. I get those sometimes, but then for some reason I take my focus off of it, especially after I write it down on the dream board because "it doesn't matter anymore after I wrote it down". How old are you?

yeah @EmptyVase I know for certain I would like to use psychedelics in the future but a) I'm too young for it b) I don't have a way to get it and not a great time logistic wise The best I could get my hands on is perhaps weed, but even that isn't quite certain

(Let it fall, the beauty of the fall) Falling like a maple leaf Swirling through all my beliefs Into the magical garden (Where you belong) And here you seek Here, have a leak The wind knows Let it blow like this - (Let if fall, the beauty of the fall) Passing through all these places, inside of my mind Realizing the colors Let it fall, the beauty of the fall (Let it fall, the beauty of the fall) The beauty of the fall

Before answering that, I'd sincerely like to know if there's any value in expressing what I don't want, because sometimes it feels almost wrong to suppress saying what I don't want Easier done when it's only that, simply to choose goals, desires, and find a greater purpose to live for. Harder when you are confined with spiritual methods. A little poem I wrote: When methods seem pleasant, they seem pleasant to the mind The realm of conceptualizations, that you fall into, Which is - The opposite of truly expressing The opposite of truth

this (Basically going meta via realizing and feeling). It is only the believing the model is reality rather than part of reality. It is seeing reality through the lens of thought vs seeing the thoughts and the 'physical' reality as whole. I'd like to actually discuss this part. Actually I have issues with this emotional scale, relating to what we're talking about now. Since there are different emotions on the emotional scale I tend to try differentiating the different emotions, and when experiencing them, the way I can recognize them is often by comparing it with other emotions, subtly - which gets me in my head conceptualizing. Since there's more than one I must conceptualize in order to see the subtle differences in emotions. 2 is found only in thought - nahm Kinda where I am now. It is the middle path between not knowing and knowing, the path of conceptualizing standing in between. Yeah, grasping is conceptual. This process of fighting illusion with illusion is to help you realize an easier path, with the additional knowing of a tendency for you (and others) to believe a conceptual self. I didn't understand... What do you mean by "that's where the rubber meets the road"? What are you talking about? So then how are you practicing "raising your consciousness"/becoming more "you"/reaching home? Alignment and embodiment of what?

@EmptyVase Every concept/idea you have about spirituality, is not it. Every model of reality isn't reality. You can't capture it with your thoughts. Those are just thoughts (which you believe). - those words are starting to make much more sense lately. Sometimes I wish all you need to learn is hardly anything and just relax into this, instead of having to come up with a branch of a subject called spirituality which focuses on conceptualizing the actuality so that the mind can comprehend, which doesn't work as I just wrote in the last paragraph. Which is why learning spirituality can really destroy your "progress". Touché, thanks. Then this raises the question: why do people (highly 'spiritual' people) write books about spirituality, talk about the 10 ox heard tail, talk about enlightenment (talk about reaching it)? This is so much conceptualization... I mean that practicing meditation, engaging with spiritual content can get me really into my head conceptualizing this whole thing, which makes me feel very disconnected from my body and feeling. On the other hand, simply living without even engaging my mind much with spirituality can get me focused on the actions I take, my body, and feeling. Perhaps it doesn't make me any more intuitive though about what emotion I'm experiencing, but eh.. I don't know.

@EmptyVase Dude I just want to be free and have a deep understanding of reality and emotions. Classically, you start off by tending to believe thoughts which are later let go to realize it feels better. The real problem comes when you start believing spiritual concepts, it's so hard and confusing man... Really fucked up... (Not necessarily in a negative way). It's like the thing that's been taught will be later seen in actuality, just to then realize there's not that thing, but actuality exclusively, which it tries to point to. Can you see where I am on the path? You know, sometimes it feels even worse than just not meditating/engaging with spirituality. That way there is more flow at least. Not even trying to interpret my direct experience

@EmptyVase If no thoughts, then how do I know that I'm breathing? I mean, the way in which the breath feels is thought.. None of that seems to imply the feeling of the breath

@Nahm Hmm.. very interesting. It's very interesting how I'm starting to understand better the trap of mistaking thought for actuality. It gets me to question more what is real. So many thought, and many pointers (which are also thoughts) to be believed are the actuality. Gets me to question what is actual. It seems that by definition you can't explain actuality with language and thoughts. I'm literally living within concepts, perhaps that is what is meant by 'life is a dream'... Then how does the breath play in all of that? What is the relationship between the breath, feeling and emotions? Good to know You got it 100% right for me. This is the problem of spirituality - concepts about how to live the awesome life which are believed. Eventually, you need to let go of spirituality itself, to actuality live life like a normal fucking human being. I don't know how to express some of the emotions because I don't quite understand exactly what I'm feeling all the time. Still have attachment to thoughts about what I'm experiencing. And there's also conceptualization working when using the scale. Anyway, for been more intuitive, isn't meditation the answer, for becoming more intuitive about my emotions? - So that I can then use the emotional scale more effectively?

@EmptyVase Always? I'm not aware of my breath (don't feel my breath) most of the day.. But are you saying that the emotion which is felt, this feeling, is actually the feeling of the breath itself? Aren't you feeling your thoughts? Or perhaps your body sensations? What exactly are you feeling? It is still a thought though, even if the imagined breath points to the actuality of it. The trap continues of mistaking thought for actuality. So you say to decide on it one time, like set myself to do it and then to just go with it and forget about it? As long as you set yourself up to it, this is the important thing, which can replace the thinking about the intention you say, yes?