fopylo

@Leo Gura So then why do you talk all the time about killing the ego and dissolving it? It seems like what you're saying is to build such a strong ego that it becomes so huge until you awaken.

@WelcometoReality Going by that logic, if an enlightened person is experiencing almost infinite levels of happiness does that mean he will have an infinitely powerful self image?

How will it strengthen the ego? It seems like the purpose of retreats is to dissolve the ego

@SamC Interesting. Meditation helps me become aware of the fact that the meditation might be a way to escape, a neurotic behavior. Yeah, I have one month left before I start my camp of 6 months (coming back once every 2 weeks) and I'm starting to get quit anxious. I've decided a month ago that I'll put effort into my meditation practices so that I'll be well off there. But truthfully, I wouldn't be functioning properly without a mere level of mindfulness (just so that I can be aware of things existing for god sake). My plan was to be the most free I can before I start the camp, as well as to go to as many social gatherings before the start of the camp. I've been on summer break for a month and I have 1 month left. I'm still on nofap for a similar reason, and also started getting back into running.

@Eph75 @flowboy Both of what you said are quite similar. The meditation practices indeed help me become more clear about myself and understand myself on deeper levels (my likes, things that make me truly happy, things I really find attractive and the such). Being detached from needs I understand means I have the freedom to choose what I want to pursue without those limitations of the mind. But yet I don't seem to be able to naturally express myself when talking to people I know.

@WelcometoReality But does that mean I'll have a positive self image, or just those general emotions?

@WelcometoReality Wait so what am I left with when I dissolve the negative images through meditations?

@NoSelfSelf Dude what do you mean I haven't embodied? I do my meditation routines

@Eph75 I've actually made not long ago a thread on that: Yes but I honestly crave this attention of looking good and being respected. Being freed from this need is like erasing this desire, suppressing it, and trying to be someone that I'm not (it's true that I am deficiently driven to get the attention). The actual experience once I get it might feel different but the desire itself is something that still feels good in the moment. If being natural means following peoples' leads and not being charismatic then I won't really achieve things, because who will want that? Being authentically beta won't help me get girls or even guy friends.

@Leo Gura Oh I mean, I don't have any plan for meditating every day 6 hours towards Awakening. Also, problematic getting psychedelics because of life situation and logistics. Perhaps I should focus on success... But doesn't 1 hour a day of meditation counter pursuing success? No I don't, in fact only like 1.5 years. For the last 6 months or so I've been introduced to spirituality. But I don't want to bypass. People who are more ignorant seem to be on the better end, not having to think that those are illusions.

@Leo Gura It's just that I don't know which to choose because 1) it seems more natural to start with success and then evolve into spiritual pursuits and - 2) spirituality seems to give the best fruits of life and I'm kinda focused on it now. Thing is that meditation practices are helping me function like a normal human being, which helped me in social interactions. So I guess they can build off of each other, probably slowing down the process than if I'd go full in on one and then the other. Indeed it is harder for me to chase success now that I'm becoming more conscious. How do you deal with this? Do you even still chase success, and if you do then what is the reason behind, the drive?

@Leo Gura Oh so they actually counter each other. Fuck. I was starting to believe the can work together. I want to become very free from my mind and very conscious so that I'm limitless and can be authentic and develop emotional mastery. But Leo, there was a time that you chased success. If you didn't chase success you probably wouldn't have been where you're now, am I right? I don't think I can really take on pursuing success after hearing and experiencing the things I can get from those spiritual practices

@Eph75 Well, yes. Certainly it feels bad. I've been called those things also in the past and it is quite hurting me, my image of myself. I want to be a wise man, strong man, respected, getting attention (especially from women), talented, emotionally intelligent, artist, maybe more. I am being honest, not trying to sound 'transcendentally enlightened' or some shit. This path has disconnected me from what is true. It is bad because I don't want to be seen as "innocent" (but rather as someone wise who understands). Don't want to be tolled "how cute" (it hurts my manhood I strive to be. I'm trying to work on my manhood and such comments make me feel beta). Not trying to be alpha in the very common neurotic way people think about, but more emotional, aware, wise, maybe there is some ego, neurosis. Well yeah I guess being authentic is quite an amazing thing so that I can be free to be who I am. But in the process of being authentic sometimes I'd rather not be authentic for potential hurt that I might get from the surrounding. I can't suddenly own my authenticity on the spot. On the spot I'd care more to survive because it's too immediate. And yeah, I fear making blunders that will make me look like a fucking boy. I'm already quite known for being called a "stoner" (it sounds worse in English, but they called me that in a friendly matter, as I make people laugh with my funny behaviors sometimes. I don't smoke) and I've seen how over the years this image is binding me from changing into a better man, even to become more authentic. Yeah so that's kinda what I was talking about for people laughing at me. I laugh with them and sometimes I don't know if I'm doing it genuinely or to neurotically defend myself, probably a mix of both. I should have mentioned this is probably the least concern, as I have been slapped by life a few times that this knowledge won't help. Hence I try to focus on action such as meditation and exercise. Lately I try to not consume a lot of information so that I won't get addicted to it. In all honestly, I really want and like the idea of being secretly seen as successful among the people I meet. Funnily though, I also fear being seen as successful because I don't want to feel out of the group or ostracized or something. But shouldn't you try to become successful and creating a self image of yourself?

@Snuitje Honestly I don't know. I don't even know why I said it, kind of regretted it and I felt very uncomfortable through the rest of the game. I was literally looking up and closing my eyes (I was already very tired so it seemed less awkward). Yeah this will probably happen sometime soon. @Bando After the meditation session I feel good, but in the real world it doesn't seem to really give me exactly the results I want. But isn't that the purpose of meditation, to surface your subconscious shit into consciousness so that you purify your mind to live with more ease and equanimity? Yeah, thinking about it now you're very right. All of them go out and meet friends way more than I, plus, I'm kinda new to this group. And they are quite weird people

By the way after I finished writing this thread I did the Do Nothing meditation and it was probably the best Do Nothing meditation I've ever done. This intense feeling of anger and frustration made it easier to bring it up to the surface and let it be. I was really letting myself loose on that and my day became better and deeper

This is very counter-intuitive to what I know about self improvement. The reason I stopped all this identification with a self image, affirmations, visualizations and all of that is precisely because I've realized its limits, not that I have really ever seriously took time to build a self image. But I don't want to be attached to a persona. If I'm attached to a certain persona then it will actually limit me and I will resist anything that could potentially harm this image. @WelcometoReality So you're basically saying those meditation practices are indeed helping in dissolving negative images that I have about myself. Since it will help dissolve the 'negative part' of the collective image of myself, I'll be left with the 'positive part'. And that will also be dissolved if I continue the work. So it's like: General image I have of myself (attachment to my mind and have limitations) --> Dissolvement of the 'not feeling good' images so that I'm left with better feeling images of myself (with still some attachments and limitations) --> Dissolving also that and becoming nothing? So then building a self image can co-work with dissolving the self? meditation will dissolve the negative, and consciously creating a self image will enhance the positive, or so it seems. But it still seems that the self image can make you somewhat neurotic. Now I want to be free from an attachment to an image.

An amazing insight I had. I mean, when I think about it, pretty much all of the insights I had seem quite obvious or just simply make sense because it's transitive. However in direct experience those insights is basically taking a simple concept and forcing it onto direct experience powerfully so that you own the wisdom. I'm pretty sure you can't teach insights to people. No one has taught me this (insight) and they could certainly have made my life easier by explaining what it means to "express yourself" and "letting go" and I'll even add "setting your mind free". But I can't expect people to know my missing puzzles and determine what is not obvious to me. But this insight s important and I think it needs to be spoken about and taught more. Being honest with myself, with the most petty things, literally exposing my childish biased emotional feelings and reasons to myself. It is saying things like "because I'm scared of my future and I feel very envious of my brother who seems to have built skill and is earning way more than me", or like "I just want sex because I want to feel good" without trying to be all 'spiritual' about it. Literally letting go. But what does "letting go" mean? Does it mean suppression? In my experience what you apparently "let go" of is of your lies to yourself, and this is a biproduct of doing the act of being honest to yourself, telling the truth to yourself (in your mind) but not with words per se, but rather with your thoughts and feelings about something prior to your logical justifications. This is really setting me free. A big part of it has to be due to my practice of the Do Nothing meditation technique which I have to say is POWERFUL. It basically frees you up to think and feel whatever the fuck you want and to do whatever the fuck you want but with more wisdom, because in the meditation I also do Strong Determination Sitting. The meditation is basically me letting my attention go wherever it wants. A while ago I could say this meditation is just me letting my focus go and accepting what is going on. Now it is starting to feel more like "life is happening, my attention is wondering, and everything is. Everything is just happening, kinda normal for life. Being lost in thoughts is simply being lost in thoughts, and being focused is simply being focused. Whichever I feel like, I'll align with it and be". Just a quick improvisation of how it is. It is deeper, with more alignment with what is. It's not a "I'm more focused on the now" kinda thing, but more like a realization that things are just being things and all I'm doing is working and being with the present moment. Kind of hard to explain. But back to the point, the Do Nothing helped me align myself with what is true for me in the moment - which means to put my attention on what I want and feels like I'm true to myself, and to feel what is really here. In retrospect it looks like I am dissolving some beliefs and that's what makes it easier. The belief of needing to feel very good because I'm on this journey is starting to fade away, as well as the belief that I'm superior to others because I'm self actualizing. Also the belief that being spiritual means feeling certain feelings, thinking in certain ways and behaving in certain ways. I blew all that crap away by letting my thoughts and feelings do whatever the fuck they want. I basked in the anger, sadness (for a very bit because I still have work to do and I've suppressed it for most of my life), boredom. I try not to label them, but sometimes I'll be like "Oh shit wait I'm feeling bored" and then trying to feel the boredom, maybe a bit neurotic, Idk.

Same. There was a time I used to travel with my bike and take breaks once in a while to record on my 'notes' app on my phone. The cool thing about it is that you can add recording together with writing so like everything is mixed and you are in a convenient position to express yourself. Yo that's so true!

@RickyFitts Dude there was a period where I used to have a lot of insights and my hands just couldn't keep up. Feelings were coming and passing to quick for me to catch up on them. I would be writing about something I'm experiencing, but while I'm writing it down the experience is changing and morphing into something else. The journaling can be overwhelmingly long.

I tell you to look at your water bottle. Now I tell you to note that it is existing. There's a certain feel to it, like it's more real, more isness to it. Before I started my mindfulness meditations I used to drown in my fantasies and was so disconnected from reality, from existence. Things didn't exists for me really much because literally, I wasn't here, but up in my fantasies. I like to frame it as "connection/disconnection with existence" since this most resonated with me. When you're up in your fantasies it's like you're neither right here in the physical world, nor really up in your thoughts, since if you were really up in your thoughts you would at least note your thoughts as existing. You're somewhere in between, not really sure, here but not really here, and there but not really there. Basically you don't really feel this 'feeling' of existing and having things exist in your perception. I've been there. And it really fucked my life hard. That's basically when I discovered the magic of mindfulness and started following Leo's work. Even though all what I just said isn't so new to me, intuitively speaking, it is something that I just became able to put it into words and understand what was really happening.

@Tim R Very interesting what you're saying... So basically focus is what is gives things the "the being power"/is-ness, or like you said "particularization". But it still leaves the question of where are you? Are you in your head or in this physical reality? It feels that the mind is trying to resist and run from both of them. Are you in the unconscious?? I mean, if I'm aware of it then I guess it isn't...Over the months and years I've been trying to capture those moments when I'm on this verging line from physical to mental, and nowadays I manage to bask in that odd state for a while. I feel like I'm nowhere, kinda trippy. But I do notice it, not always at the moment, but surely like a second afterwards in retrospect

@Preety_India Thought about it for a bit and I think you're half right. It is very effective at getting the things out, like good at sucking the expression out of me since I put it onto paper to make it more concrete, personally. But the problem is that journaling in most cases can't compete with the speed of the mind. Sometimes my mind is running like a million things, many scenarios, changing in feelings, I can't capture everything even when I'm scribbling fast.

When you're lost in this cycle also all the content of thoughts are all over the place and it's hard to get yourself to function. Hard to get yourself to fucking FUNCTION! I'm lucky that some forces gave me some pushes to get out of this state, just a bit, so that I can function and decide to go out and raise my consciousness to get further from this loop. The more free I am, the more free I am to pursue freedom, if this makes any sense

But it got me wondering - what is that state of being here but not really here? The mind is trying to resist the present existence of reality by running into some fantasy. And even the fantasies aren't really clear as it tries to run even from that! It's a never ending loop of resistance and running away. What's left then? Where are you?

Well lucky for me I'm discovering that I was actually quite spiritual and conscious as a child, and those meditations are helping me get back at this state so I believe I'm good. I have a strong intuition that I will awaken in this lifetime like never before. Full enlightenment. Maybe this is farfetched but it feels more like I'm returning to this intuition and all my life I've been chasing other things. Deep down I know I'll become a master of this life. I'll do all the hard work like you did