Water by the River

As we apparantly all do as we please. Then have fun climbing up the endless mountains.

Just add a few dimensions more (that "you" forget now in real time), and you have endless perspectives or POVs. Noneuclidian Vision like below, a one-dimensional chain of endless 3D-Pocket dimensions, or Indras Net in 3D. Infinite possibilities to pull that off, game of mathematics. That is called Indras Net. Like one policemen watching the monitors of lots of security cameras: One Infinite consciousness (the policeman), endless cameras ("bodys or better 3D perspectives, with endless monitors), endless monitors. And now just remove policemen, camera and monitors, and stack all of these perspectives together into a dimensional model of your choice. And forget all other cameras in real time. Of course just a metaphor to make it clear: ONE (without a second) Infinite Awareness/Consciousness/Being, splicing itself up into infinite perspectives and forgetting these in real time. And totally empty and impersonal so that it can be and feel like "everything/everyone". The same way you can forget in time what you did exactly 1 year ago, you can forget all other perspectives "in space". People had visions of Indras Net, or of something like that, since the beginning of time, often while tripping on the local psychedelic of the season: Nice book btw. Indras Net. Each perspective reflecting each other perspectives. The outside of another human/being/holon is the reflection of that "node/being" in your "node/being", see this picture. And mathematics can already do that right now in endless unimaginable n-dimensional spaces, the math exists also in our world... One just can't imagine it, but calculate with it one can... or https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Indras Net&author=Water by the River

Mine too. How about transcending & shutting down the hand at 50s? Looking into its nature of that desire/curiosity/intention, and seeing it as mere appearance arising in your Infinite Being, like any other curiosity/desire? And smiling back at the lovely & beautiful owner of the hand, Maya herself? Just respectfully asking. Really. Still a fan of your psychonautic endeavours & explorations. Water by the River

"And they do know that all is an imagined illusion happening within "their" own Infinite Being/True Being by definition" I think we align quite well, although its difficult to express these thing just in writing. With imagined Illusion I mean that the tree "out there" is no solid object existing independently existing from the human/consciousness perceiving it, like its normally perceived with the dualistic and materialistic view. The appearance itself is real. It appears. But it is just a lucid, groundless mere appearance. Like the appearance in a dream. Normally, in the standard-perception is seems to be external/out-there (duality), and solid (or material). In truth, its neither "out there/external" (nondual), nor solid/material (but appearing as lucid hologram-like (mere appearance, imagined, "dream-stuff" so to say). And yes, (self-)consciousness implies often a separation. With perceptions perceiving themselves I want to express that there are states where there is no I-thought and I-feeling. Then it is literally the universe perceiving itself, Being perceiving itself. That is also what I mean when writing "impersonal". Although this report of Steven Norquist is a bit "pushing" the empty/scary character , which can be the initial reaction if this realization goes very fast, in truth its the most wonderful state imaginable. http://www.hauntedpress.net/What_is_Enlightenment.html It is Awareness in and by itself, not the "personal" consciousness. There never is and was a personal consciousness, it is only non-personal Infinite Being/Awareness. "Impersonal" can sound bad, but isn't: Its all ones True Being, and that is aware, and eternal. Containing the whole world, and also a human and its thoughts/feelings. It is a much larger Being than the previous illusion-human. And much more blissful. This Awareness in and by itself (of Infinite Being) "lends" or appears as personal consciousness (which isn't conscious at all, because True Infinite Being is the Awareness/consciousness cosplaying limited personal consciousness). So nothing is really lost besides the illusion of being just a small separate human. True Being can not be lost, ever. Immortal. Eternal. Unborn. Does that clarify a bit? Did I understand you correctly?

You are right. Actually, I didn't have you in mind at all when I criticized the usage of God as pointer, because you know what you are talking about, or have that as direct experience/realization. Which can probably not be said about everyone claiming that "I had a God-Realization and I am God and had an awakening that I imagine everything". Maya often smiles lovingly at the authors of such statements....

On an Absolute Level, "it" or better True You is solipsistic. Alone and infinite. True You/Infinite Being is "alone" because "it" is infinite with nothing possibly outside of it. But that is True You/True Being. And someone who is not enlightened doesn't (by definition) know the difference between the current identity and True Being, or else he/she would be enlightened and no longer be asking these questions... So talking about Solipsism and God is just counterproductive when talking with beings who have not realized their True Nature. Because they will project their ego on the concept of God or Solipsism, no other chance. First become Nothing (no separate-self), then you will be everything (Infinite Being) - Thisdell stage 4, becoming Thisdell stage 5/Enlightenment. But better not project a little separate something (illusion-separate-self) on everything (Roger Thisdell stage 3 "Godmind"). Or: I am God imagining everything. That makes Thisdell stage 3 a cul-de-sac, no way forward to stabilize Awakening in daily life and ease the suffering. Which is exactly what we see here, with a few added ETs. Is Infinite Being not enough? Does it need to be called God? As I have written several times, I don't really like the pointer God, because it is normally loaded with other meaning on top. God = omnipresent, infinite, timeless/eternal/immortal, creating/manifesting/imagining the whole gig: Same for True Infinite Being. One without a second. But all the stuff projected on top of it when using the pointer God instead of Infinite Being, the one without a second, is often not for the faint of hearted. It anthropomorphizes Infinite True Being/Reality with properties and intentions that are just not there on the most fundamental level, and then proejcts it on the illusion-ego/illusion separate-self. "I am God". Only very few can truthfully say that, because most have not realized their True Being and can't tell the difference to ego/separate-self. And those who can say that truthfully and not fall for the illusion normally don't talk like that, because they know from their own practice it is not beneficial for beings with the ego/separate-self illusion not fully seen through. As soon as one talks like that to not enlightened beings, they almost always project the properties of True Being (or God) on themselves, their separate-identity, which they still have not seen through. Because else they would be enlightened. And these separate-self-identities-arisings/illusions are that which have to be cut down/transcended for Enlightenment to happen. And using the grandiose word "God" tends to blow these illusion-arising up to cosmic proportions: "I" imagine everything. No. "Your" True Being does. But what is that? What is the constant always here True Being? Here also in Deep Sleep? Before ones birth? And if one would fully know the difference between True Being and separate-self/ego, one wouldn't talk about these topics using pointers/concepts like God/Solipsism, because it would be all clear anyway... And one wouldn't need to state I am God and I imagine everything, because.... well... TO WHOM? Well, I guess you get the point. At the level of Infinite Being one is alone. But there is no one there to feel alone, because that would be an anthropomorphic illusion arising of a separate-self WITHIN True Being. It just is what it is. And always has been. And with an enlightened being talking like that it is not necessary. Makes no sense. One sees and knows the Awakened Nondual enlightened State the "other" is in (and nobody really home), and it is clear. Imagine a discussion like: I am God! No, I am God! No, you are not! We are God! That is all illusion, starting with the words "I" and "we". Lot of talk of God and Solipsism happens on Thisdells stage 3 "God-stage, God-mind". Infinite Nonduality with separate-self/remaining identity/ego not fully seen through". It is contradictory, not stable, with lots of illusions still going on. And that is presupposing its done from real nondual states. Most of the time, its done from not nondual states, just from the conceptual level. And from there, it is more insanity than anything else. The discussion then goes like: "No, small you is not God. Big You, True Being, is. But first find out what that is before talking about God & Solipsism". And because of all these contradictions that doing that move includes, there is so much discussion here about these topics. Because it is not clear, but contradictory. Sometimes I use the pointer God, but normally it is not a good pointing/teaching tool. Ever noticed that very few enlightened teachers that are public talk about how they are God and imagining everything, and they are all alone and Solipsism and so on? They do, if you listen between the lines or read/see enough stuff. Sometimes even explictily. Sometimes, even complete books like the Supreme Source have been written, that even got the approval by our host as God Realization. And these enlightened teachers normally don't talk about them being God/Solipsism. Not because they are too stupid to know what God is, and what Solipsism/Aloneness on the Absolute Level means. And they do know that all is an imagined illusion happening within "their" own Infinite Being/True Being by definition. If they wouldn't, they wouldn't be enlightened. But they don't throw that in public at a poor ego to blow it up to cosmic proportions, because that doesn't help their students going from Thisdell stage 3 to 4 to 5. It usually even prevents getting the ego stage 1 to witness stage 2 to nondual stage 3. Because to get there sobre and without psychedelics, one already has to kill/transcend the ego/separate-self quite a lot... Nothing kills sobre Awakened Nonduality better than saying to oneself: I AM GOD. A "normal" identification of I am a human so and so suffices to do that... And one more thing: If Nonduality (or Buddhism) gets bashed: Nonduality is NOT automatically Enlightenment, or realization of True Infinite Being/Reality. It is Thisdells stage 3 Godmind. A boundless nondual infinite field of Awareness, with a separate-self still well and alive hijacking that! And that most Buddhist are not enlightened should go without saying.. Stage 3 Godmind. That is where one gets with psychedelics. And maybe even stage 4 a bit. But I have never seen a mainly psychedelic aficionado get to stage 5, True No Self (also nondual, but without center/separate-self-illusion, truly being the Infinite Totality/Being). Stable Nondual realization of Infinite Being in daily life. Maybe somebody knows one, would be very interested. Can't rule out that one exists, or that one wakes up just by the impulse of a psychedelic. It is just, I have never seen one. I know quite a lot that have done that with transcending/meditation of the false illusion separate self. So basically "Nonduality" and "Buddhism" gets bashed, because one doesn't know that stage 3 "Godmind"/Nonduality is not yet True Being or Enlightenment. Of course merely Nondual Realisation doesn't bring "God-Realization", or understanding that True Being imagines/manifests all of it, and that ones True Self is that. That is stage 5, or the link (Supreme Source) above. Or True Enlightenment. Psychedelics get one to Nonduality, maybe in more sophisticated cases to realizing that it is all imagined/manifested to fool "oneself". But it doesn't get oneself conforming to the impersonal infinite nondual enlightened mindstream. And that is why this "realization" is not stable in daily life. Still suffering/resisting the content of ones own True Infinite Being. "Solution": add a few ETs from higher levels of Reality, and call that higher than realizing and being ones True Infinite Being. And be proud on ones own continuing suffering/resistance towards happens within ones True Infinite Nondual Being, and declare that as inevitable. Or something like that. Well, quite a show Maya is dishing "us" up this time, isn't it Selling God&Solipsism Water by the River The Koan still is: What is the True Being of the ET at the end, really? And that of any other ET, n+1?

A very good and important topic to contemplate about. I also spent a long time with the topic of what causes actually Awakening, and its relationship to suffering. I tried to include as many past & present cases into my perspective on it as possible. On suffering in the context of Awakening, Enlightenment, the meditation path and my personal experiences (and my personal pet-theory of it all): -warning, the usual conceptual overkill of yours truly ahead- The following is my perspective based on what I have seen/read about other cases, and my own experiences. Without some form of suffering (or more precicly in Buddhist terma Dukha which means not suffering, but more unsatisfactoryness) nobody would ever start the path to Enlightenment/Awakening/Liberation/True Being, because one would be happy & satisfied doing the myriad of projects to become happy and free of suffering/unsatisfactoriness in our culture/time. Maslows pyramid up and down. What is not so well known: Even Maslow put towards the end of his life stage 6 on top of Maslows pyramid of need: (Self-)-Transcendence. So for the start of the "Enlightenment-project" (which is a contradiction in itself, but that is another story...) one needs either a) a mainstream-culture that pushes spiritual liberation/Awakening (and for our lifetimes, Maya goes "not today darling" on that topic, or b) some form of suffering or dukha (unsatisfactoriness) to start the journey. Then during the path to Awakening/Enlightenment/liberation, the old cycles of suffering/unsatisfactoriness don't stop at once. Here is how it developed for me, in a nutshell. The nature of the separate-self/ego to cycle between being happy for some time, then suffering/being unsatisfied/resisting what is/unhappy, then start a new project to make it happy, and round it goes. If God would write a manual to make a Samsara/Illusion game with (separate) self and others, it would go something like this: Give them some unsatisfaction and a carrot (expectation of happiness induced by a certain experience in the future), let them chase, then give them temporary happiness(=not resisting what is) and them make 'em suffer again. And given them lots of levels of carrots/games to chase and try out for permanent happiness. That is all that is needed to have a game with separate-self. The chasing goes from Maslows pyramid base stage 1 apparently up to chasing ETs n+1. Then, on an efficient path (my case Mahamudra/Dzogchen), the bliss of ones True Being (Awakenings to Nondual Awakened Awarenes) by cutting off the thought/feeling stream of the separate self in real time (also called meditation, if done correctly) starts flowing. At some point of my path (mainly Mahamudra&Dzogchen), I literally could start producing my bliss for example while meditating, walking, in meetings (at least some of them when I just could watch the show ) and so on... That normally starts after some years of meditation (on and off the pillow) when the vast spaciousness of boundless awareness starts showing up and the contractions in the head get literally relaxed. That impressed me pretty much. That bliss didn't hold with "hard" problems/really bad events in the beginning, but it started the become stronger and stronger, inducing more and more awakend nondual states of blissful silence. A positive feedback loop. More and more facets of True Being started to show up, see my last post on the remnants of separate self that need to be seen through. Creating more and more Awakening and bliss. At some point the shift can happen towards realizing what one really is/True Infinite Being, or Enlightenment. Since that normally implies a gradual transcendence path/process over several years that one has been fed each and any core-separte-self identity/suffering during the meditation by Maya in the years before, pretty much all of that stuff is transcended. Because Maya will "throw" anything at you that she has to keep the illusion going, and she has a lot. But it can jump to Enlightenment any time (Karma, aka genetics but I prefer Karma, more encompassing), induced by various events, often suffering, before that path/during it/at the end of it. For most it takes the whole path. The more gradual and longer the path, the more stable is the realization later. Yet, once having realized True Being, it is no longer in doubt. So, that was my experience, now comes my theory: Beings are karmically wired more or less fortunately/differently. Some wake up because their visual field conforms for some reasons (base state, Kundalini-Awakening, whatever) very well to the True Nature of things (mere appearance and not solid objects out there, Infinite field of awareness, boundless, timeless, always here, basically my last long post about a mindstream conforming to the enlightened mindstream. Or at least they have the potential for that shift to happen quickly. and their core-separate-self-identity-arisings are for some reason (Karma,...) easily seen through when contemplating&self-inquiring. For these beings (1) and (2) in place, some trigger can cause Enlightenment. Suffering-example: Tolle. Kundalini/Energetic: Ramana. Anamanda Ma, countless examples in history. Branch of that is shaktipat hitting a "fertile field". Then there are the normies, like yours truly, who need an either need a) an efficient practice (like Mahamudra/Dzogchen) first to induce awakened states, then get rid of all illusion/separate-self remnants, and then some good pointing out instruction of the real state of things (the properties of True Infinite Being, basically my last long post). quite some time/years needed to start inducing awakened awareness/mere nondual appearance of the visual field via meditation/trekchö/cutting off each and any thought-arising in more and more highspeed by looking into its (empty/consciousness) nature out of which thoughts/feelings are made. Until then of course also suffering in cycles. But getting "over the hump" towards bliss-inducing state happens here in the fastest and most efficient manner, as least in the opinion of yours truly. The beginning steps of that path are also concentration meditation, like in b) below. But quite refined ones, and not for too long before one shifts practice. Learning to produce ones own bliss with being in these awakened states. This way, gradually getting rid of large parts of suffering by slowly transcending the "sufferer", and replacing misery of the separate-self with the bliss of awakened states. and then, towards the end of the road (or if one is gifted/fortunate/lucky also in the middle of the path) the shift to realizing True Being and its immortality (or infinite-always here nature), and with that removing the final fear of "death" or disappearance. b) a practice that is less detailed and focuses more on brute-force willpower/push-through concentration meditation: Jhana, Zen, "sit and die before the wall" approaches that need to push with willpower through lots and lots of suffering. Here, we are again at lots and lots of suffering (at least at the beginning stages, but also all along the path from what I have seen), because Maya will throw everything she has at you to get you off the pillow/meditation, not that one wakes up and leaves the game prematurely... And now the second part of the post, why are the paths with less/minimized suffering not practiced more widely? As @Arthogaan has noticed correctly in the post below, and I had the exact same thoughts many times... Short answer to the question above: they are more complex and need more maintenance/coaching/understanding. So they are more difficult to teach & multiply & roll out, and normally need personal coaching. they have mostly been kept secret until recently because of the various dangers, like for example ego-inflation, nihilistic misuse-potential, or just plain and simple misunderstanding potential of complex practices, which leads to stagnation in the practice. Why do we have mainly enlightened ones who got lucky/were lucky with karma/genetics (see above), or from the paths 2b) Concentration meditation/Theravada/Zen? Because until recently the highly(!) sophisticated methods of Tibetan Buddhism like Mahamudra/Dzogchen/... (who have developed much more and way more sophisticated than for example Zen/Theravada which are very similiar to what was done in India 1000 to 2000 years ago (although I love these traditions very much) were not accessible at all. The Tibetans "concentrated" more on spirituality as a society, 1000 years of R&D of enlightened lineages and sometimes a large part of the adult population in the monastaries (~15%+). Head of state = Dalai Lama for a long time. Basically, main focus of that culture&society including government was Enlightenment. Of course there was also a lot of stupid things going on, like war between monasteries. But the overall development of buddhist meditation in that setting was unparalleled. Compared to that (sorry) Theravada and Zen sometimes feels a bit like "living fossils" (said in a joking way), although I like them very much and they do work quite robustly and produce fully enlightened ones. The Tibetan Teachings are very sophisticated and either need lots of focus on them (like reading the books of Brown 10-20 times and experimenting a lot), or a good and enlightened teacher explaining them and checking for understanding (which pretty much didn't exist until recently, all secret teachings are out, see books of Daniel Brown. "best of" collection of Menri Trizin, selected by Menri Trizin (probably those with which he achieved his own realization) to be translated by Brown). Another problem is they got a deeply cultural "lingo" and quite some hyperbole (the Tantric teachings of generation/completition stages and especially the lower Tantras). Quite hard to approach. So the only thing not published by Brown of these systems are some of the secret pointing out instructions for Enlightenment, although quite some are published, for example his Akrid book (Pith Instructions for A Khrid rDzogs Chen. Yet, reading that in parallel to Pointing out the Great Way is probably better than starting with that book alone). That system plus a bit Jac O'Keffee, Roger Thisdell, Massaro, Wolinsky for the final steps towards Realization (I wrote quite a lot about these), and some psychedelics for state-peak-previews... These elements I assume will be found in the Global Dharma of the future. Then some more aspects: Concentration Meditation Systems like Zen or Jhana/Theravada are quite robust: Don't need so much teaching/feedback during the process, are more brute-force and less complex. More robust, less efficient (in the meaning that one needs to push through suffering with meditation, and that they can be slower/less pleasant, and many meditators end in the many cul-de-sacs of the path where one can just stagnate if certain nuances are not understood. But done long &hard enough they work. Metaphor: The axe to cut down a tree. Doesnt need fuel & maintenance & sophisticated handling like a forst harvester.... which brings us to: The Forsest harvester to cut down the forst of Illusion: Mahamudra&Dzogchen&other Tibetan Buddhism techniques, see for example Daniel Browns books & videos: can work if done correctly/understood correctly/coached correctly in the fastest way possible by swiftly creating Awakened Nondual States most pleasant way possible (minimum amount of pushing through suffering on/off meditation pillow, taking the meditation off the pillow into daily life at the earliest possible point. avoiding pretty much all cul-de-sacs of the path where meditation practice can stagnate/level out if something is not done correctly, which means and end to the growth of Awakened Nondual States. Mostly they don't even appear then in first place, and one remains in the mericless claws of the separate-self-contraction/suffering. but are way more complex than the standard concentration meditation practice like Zen/Jhana. Pointing out the Great Way, Brown has hundreds of pages of descriptions of the various stages/steps and how the path develops through them. So many many things to potentially do wrong if something is understood incorrectly. Zen-Koan-meditation would just push through these errors if done long enough, but an incorrectly done Nonmeditation (done too early) or One Taste meditation goes nowhere and stagnates... Selling Water by the River

Awakenings can have such a deep and self-verifying impact (and is self-validating, because... aspects of True Being starting to show up) that "one can stare the devil in the eye and not blink", as some Zen people have written. One starts speaking from the authority of ones own Awakenings. The question is: What is left of "one speaking". Yet, everytime yours truly had the thought arising that he is ahead of anyone, there was a new me separate-self-cluster floating around in my Infinite True Being, pretty much destroying the awakened nondual state of just One Infinite Being/Infinite Consciousness with re-establishing duality, separate-self and "other". Later, admittedly after quite some years , I learned that self-importance and feeling of being "ahead" of any arising in my True Being of any kind is one of the end-game-bosses, because it creates (separate) self and others. And it can be very very subtle... Nowadays I tend to smile on any tendencies like that are arising in me, understanding that Maya just looked at "me" and gave me her most beautiful and seductive smile. Because "who" could "I" be ahead of? Ahead of Myself? And all you can do if Maya smiles at you is smile back.... Please don't understand as criticism, just as a description of my experience with that topic. In Absolute Truth, there is no "one" ahead of "anyone". On a relative/manifestation level, there are just some "mindstreams" that have more clouds blocking True Beings, and some have less. All have the same essence and Being. I personally have a hard time staying in Awakened Nondual Awareness and seriously believing that "I" am ahead of anyone, because then "I" get served "I" (separate self) and "anyone" (other), normally causing an end of nondual Awakening, and the corresponding suffering/resistance to what is, which is just another word for suffering. And I tend to no longer hit myself on my own knee with a hammer if I can avoid it, even if Maya gives me her most seductive smile. Namaste Water by the River

yes, Awakening is beautiful... "Beautiful drowning This beautiful drowning This holy water This holy water is in my lungs" The lead singer of Live, Ed Kowalczyk has a deep spiritual side. Here is a conversation with Ken Wilber. From the song "Overcome": Even now the world is bleedin' But feelin' just fine all numb In our castle where we're always free To choose never free enough To find, ... And I am overcome I am overcome Holy water in my lungs I am overcome ... My master's in the yard givin' light [hint to Adi Da, his Guru at the time] To the unaware... ... So drive me out out to that open field Turn the ignition off And spin around Your help is here but I'm parked in this open space Blockin' the gates of love I am overcome I am overcome Holy water in my lungs I am overcome Beautiful drowning This beautiful drowning This holy water This holy water is in my lungs also beautiful:

Psychedelics are an awesome tool. If combined with meditation its the path of the future. Just psychedelics without meditation (on the pillow or off the pillow) can become a case for the

The ability to hold the boundless infinite nondual Awareness will grow. In Pointing out the Great Way it is called Postsamadhi Meditation. This boundless infinite timeless Awakened Awareness (as Daniel Brown calls it) is impersonal, or Awareness in at by itself. It is not necessarily individual consciousness, but awakened nondual boundless impersonal consciousness. Non-separated, non-personal. Awake. With Nonmeditation Yoga, you can let Awakened Awareness hold the view and do the meditation. "You" just get out of the way. Same holds for daily activity. Awakened Awareness is more intelligent than normal ego-consciousness, since filters & lenses are removed. Daniel Brown once said: "I let Awakened Awareness do it (I think in the context of that statement writing a book), and I just get out of the way." That is how it feels. Reading and analytical thinking is about the most difficult activitiy while keeping mindfullness/Awakened Awareness, but it can be done. "The reappearance of the mind's spontaneous relative activity at this extraordinary level of practice [Nonmeditation Yoga] brings continuous supreme bliss (bde steng). Because mindfulness/recognition now has its own force (shugs), it goes on by itself without any effort whatsoever." "At this final stage awakened wisdom [Awakened Awareness] spreads rapidly so that all possible emanations of the mind become the embodiment of awakened wisdom. The term emanation ofnothingcaptures both the relative and the ultimate dimensions of truth, respectively. All the mind's relative activity becomes the play (rol du) of the always-here mind. Where ordinary thoughts and perceptions once were, "only the great fire of understanding burns" (TN, p. 536)." "Blended practice occurs when you are forever mindful of the real nature/clear-light mind throughout the four behavioral conditions. (TN, p. 547)" Pointing out the Great Way, Brown Daniel Brown, Video below, starting 57min 40 sec: Map 2: On stabilizing Awakening [or Awakened (Nondual) Awareness] Map 3 would be to Liberation / Enlightenment. Map 1 is to Awakening/Awakened Awareness. In my opinion, and that of Daniel Brown, the most sophisticated meditation/training system on the planet. Daniel Brown has received the clearance from Menri Trizin to translate all the previous secret teachings, including Tummo/Energetic Inner Fire Yoga with or without consort, Treckö and Togal (Visionary practices to get rid of the solidity of the visual field), dark retreat, dream yoga, and so on and on. And lots of other really unique techniques that neither Zen nor Theravada, nor any other tradition, have. and the result: The timeline to Enlightenment. Done correctly with energetic practices added a few years...

...and that debris burns wonderfully in the everburning fire of the Infinite Emptiness of ones True Being. And God said, Thou shalt not be able to see my face; for no man shall see my face, and live. Exodus 33:20

Yes, you can't find it because True Self has no location, it is nonlocal, centerless, boundless and infinite. The whole infinite nondual field/vastness. What can be found are (bodily-) sensations/feelings like a center/solidity, imposed limitations, imagined boundaries of the visual field (imagination of boundary with somehow somatic sensation of boundary on top), and a lot of thoughts/feelings/concept of being human. Yet, all of that can be seen as an object, arising IN ones consciousness, floating in Infinite Being. But there is no short-cut. It needs practice and seeing into the nature of all thoughts (emptiness/consciousness, which makes them dissolve and cut off) and into all bodily solidities/centers has to be done again and again, since the Gestalt of the illusion reassembles itself very fast. Neti Neti, not this, not that. Or not only this or only that. It takes a long time to get to nondual states (Thisdell stage 3), where a felt fast spaciousness open up and nonduality (still with a murky self left) starts. Good news is: Beginning here bliss starts flowing when in these states just by being in them, and the path becomes truly wonderful. That is beginning freedom. Frank Yang described his Enlightenment when his two last items that didn't conform to the enlightened mindstream were realized (after a long time of removing pretty much everything before, Roger Thisdell stage 2&3&4): all bodily sensations parading as a center or solidity were gone and dissolved (head, chest,...). Just vast spaciousness without a center. the cluster of sensations/thoughts claiming to be the watching all meditation-process of shutting off each thought-arising were seen as also mere clusters of thoughts. Basically also for him the crossing over to Enlightenment, or understanding True Infinite Being/Reality/Consciousness happened when the mindstream conformed to the enlightened mindstream. Then Infinite Being/Reality awakens to its True Being in that perspective/being/mindstream. Good. That is the thorn with which to remove the thorn. But also notice that this thought ""self, I cannot find you, where are you" is again a thought (or a cluster of thoughts/sensations/feelings) claiming ownership/identity, which creates another illusion-identity. But it has to be done like that, until that is automized. Then one switches to automatic meditation (Nonmeditation-Yoga). Bon voyage Selling Water by the River

yes it does. If there is no major element missing, the path shows itself to itself at that stage. I have written more about that in:

Ok, I try. But be aware this is extremely difficult to do it in a monological form via text, and hardly complete. Good news is: At that stage the path shows itself to itself if one just continues with the right meditation/awareness techniques. The illusion-mechanisms pop up one by one. If applying a good understanding of what will show up, the process can be fastened. It is like adding a blow-torch to the burning down of the illusion-building. So, here we go: Any thought implying I/me. "I-feeling" any understanding you have ("I" understand) any doubt ("I" doubt) all of it very subtle and fast forms of feeling separate. Or thinking that. Very fast & very subtle. Way faster than a thought elaborated over several second. Tenths/fractions of a second... Speed of awareness is crucial, that is being trained here And strength of awareness, to be able to also cut off core separate-self identities and suffering/resistance. Reckognizing that, not getting hypnotized by that, cutting it off by looking into its nature (empty consciousness). and since its very hard to tell the difference if a thought-arising is laced with individuality/separation/identity: Cutting off all of them, just for training. Yet, one can at other times also maintain ones awareness during practical daily life/thoughts. And memory of the past: It is being imagined right now, appears as complete "chunk" out of Infinite Consciousness/Being, and then gets elaborated in thought (which is very slow compared to how it emerges "fully" formed. That is truly a mindf*** when your awareness gets fast enough to spot for the first time how the complete past emerges immediately as "whole block" and then is slowly elaborated, fooling one to believe one is that "I" having this memory and thoughts. You see then how each any anything is just emerging to fool oneself. That is an aspect that Leo emphasizes with his concept of God-Realization. The past is radically imagined right now, there is no past. There is only an Infinite Formless eternal "Field" modulating itself to give the appearance of a past. Same for the "future". You don't have a past, You are an Infinite Vastness that is able to make up the past on the fly, and then have thoughts/feelings-arisings that "believe" that. Yet, that Infinite Vastness/Being CAN UNDERSTAND, and so it can understand that the past is imagined on the fly here and now. That is a major understanding/building block of Enlightenment, or seeing that separation from it all (separate self) is just an imagined arising within oneself. One is not a human, but the Infinite Vastness/Being (which is luckily also always here, aka immortal/eternal, can't go anywhere infinite Nothingness with nothing outside of it) imagining a human and all its elements moving/appearing within itself. So it is Duality gone (visual field nondual) -> Nondual boundless infinite (boundary of the field is gone) -> Infinite solidity of "external" visual field is gone, replacing solidity with mere groundless lucid appearance -> imagined illusion/lucidity/non-material, mere imagined empty hologram like appearance. time is gone (as described above, past imagined right now) -> always here, never not here Infinite Mind/Being. Eternal, immortal, absolutely fundamental, all is appearing and arising in it, always. space is gone (imagined IN the infinte vastness of True Being) -> space doesnt exist outside, space is imagined in oneself, the vastness of Infinity (which is not 3d space), and there is no 3D-space (or any space at all, non-euclidian, 4D, whatever) possibly existing outside of your Infinite Being. No outside. Infinite. All there is. Space is not self-existing outside of ones own nondual infinite being. It is imagined by it. What is behind your face? "beyond" the visual field. Not (3d-)space, but the Infinite (Being). -> spaceless, dimensionless, infinite. Containing all possible dimensions and realms, high and low. all of that is imagined/constructed/manifested right here right now in ones nondual True eternal Being, Infinite Consciousness/Being. -> A mirage/illusion appearing in ones Infinite Being, giving rise to the illusion of a human life within it. Another way to say that is: In Pointing out the Great Way, Brown is one statement: If everything (1) all appearance of the world/visual field is seen as mere appearance (empty) hovering lucid and hologram like in Infinite Vastness (that can still be stage 3&4 Thisdell with separate-self well and alive, and that is why that is accesible via psychedelics) AND (2) each and any thought/feeling arising/"internal" mindstream event (including everything one believed oneself to be, I-feeling, I-thoughts, the whole history, the whole asking what is Reality/True Being, ALL of it) is seen as empty arising in Infinite Being/Nothingness/Consciousness. which means that ones mindstream is then conforming to the enlighened mindstream, or close to how Infinite Reality really is. Then Enlightenment can happen. But it can't be forced, since that would be thoughts with a thinker identified with them, with I-feelings, wanting something. Infinite Being/Consciousness has to understand itself, with no artifical activity/separate self trying to force it. At that point, the properties of the mindstream above can be automized, and this automatic meditation/mindfulness can be protected ("mindfulness without [artificial activity]"), element (1) of Nonmeditation Yoga, see Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). One doesnt't focus on anything (which Daniel Brown calls particularizing). This picking out something specific with attention (particularizing, the fastest process of the mind, way faster than thinking) is what creates Duality, or better disrupts the original nonduality. Instead, one watches how particularization happens, and transcends that in a way that the boundless nondual unity with/of the visual field is not interrupted. Element (2) of Nonmeditation Yoga, "do not take to mind". and then maintains and waits in that state. Meditation and Mindfulness in these awakened nondual states does itself. Enlightenment can't be forced, because who would do the forcing? Instead, the Infinite Vastness/Being can understand/realize itself (or its True Nature) when conditions are exactly right. That is then Enlightenment. Bye bye illusion-human, hello Infinite Being/Reality "having" a human,. Making the mindstream conform to the enlightened mindstream so that Enlightenment can happen is very important, because that part can be done by intelligent and informed practice. And that is why an efficient system is way faster, more efficient for most than and way more pleasent than a brute force approach like sitting an staring at the wall (brute force method), concentration or Koan-style. more likely to work than betting on just by having the right Karma and enough of the mere-appearance-infinite-character of the visual field and thought/feeling space in place already (Ramana, Anamanda Ma), and then some contemplation based on the already very much conforming mindstream Only those who needed to walked the steps can tell about the steps. Those are on top can mainly tell about how the properties of the roof are/what Truth is, but its more difficult to talk about steps that didn't have to be taken/climbed because they were already in place. The low success rate of the Enlightenment-endeavours in my perspective is due to mostly using brute-force-methods (which need lots and lots of willpower and pushing through negative emotions on the pillow) with no clear map of the steps of the path and the lots of cul-de-sacs of the path, or prodigy-approaches of telling about nature of True Being, but not offering a method path for average-gifted persons (Ramana for example). So, conforming to the enlightened mindstream mainly is: (1) Visual Field nondual, mere appearance, "hovering" in Infinite Vasteness/Infinity, being manifested/imagined right now (2) every thought arising/feeling arising is seen as emerging out of True Being/consciousness, made out of it, moving in it. Especially all thoughts/feelings relating to I/me. Feels impersonal, no separate indiduality found in any of that. And based on that the separate self (what one thought oneself to be) can be realized as mere flow of colours/appearances/feelings/thoughts (which have a very coherent and well made structure/Gestalt, and therefor are extremly hypnotizing and seem believeable) appearing in Oneself (Infinite Being), including the whole past, and that one IS the always here Infinite Eternal Field of Being/Consciousness. And the former separate-self is like the tree-picture in this wikipedia-article (below): A representation for something that appears (the tree), but has no independend existence apart from True Being (which is the nondual infinite eternal vastness of Being right here and now, with the body and mindstream having no different priority or separation from all that is). A well made illusion. The picture of the tree concept doesn't point to a real tree outside of consciousness (an object), but to shapes/colours of an imagined trees within Infinite Consciousness, not to real trees that exist outside of Infinite Being, self-existing/indepdently existing outside of consciousness. There are no trees, just the concept of them, and some imagined colours/forms/sensations giving the Gestalt of an appearance of atree. Same way, there is no human/separate-self beyond the appearance-Gestalt, and the concept pointing to such an imagined self-existing entity. There is only Infinite Being, not the human (which only appears in Infinite Being). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept There always ever was, is and can be the Totality of (true) Being, self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. Either with reflective-self-consciousness arising (like normal human mind stream), or just mere awareness of the Totality without the self-consciousness part, perceptions perceiving themselves. Aware, but not separate. The non reflective-pure awareness of this vast field/being is more fundamental than the temporary appearing self-consciousness (with I-feelings I-thoughts). The Awareness is the Sun, the reflective (self-) consciousness (I-feeling, I-thoughts) is the reflected light of the Sun on the planets. Basically, its replacing ones old mistaken identity (imagined false illusion separate-self) with the correct identity, Infinite timeless/eternal (always here) Being. The flow of the human mindstream with its practical thoughts and so on happen within Ones True Being. One has a human, but is not only the human. Thoughts or feelings of separation are known to be illusion. When that shift happen, this realization is always available by just reaching out, or immediately always present. The visual field IS mere appearance and lucid/hologram/groundless, it IS infinite, eternal always here. Thoughts and feelings ARE just floating in it, made out of it, and "it" is onself, nondual. And that can be felt all the time or by just checking/moving attention there. It can never really be unseen. Reality/True Being understands itself. It is beyond doubt, unshakable, deathless/immortal always here. And that is the kicker: One/True Being is literally immortal and infinite. Not the ego, but True Being with its nature of Awareness. One can never die, and nothing outside one self can truly threaten one, because there is no outside of oneself. Seriousness and danger is replaced with laughter and security. Resting in True Being generates bliss, even when approaching it in Thisdells stage 4. Its a self-reinforcing positive feedback loop: Cutting off thoughts, field nondual, bliss flows. Literally. And that reinforces the stability of Nondual mere appearance visual field even more. Awakening enchances awakening. Suffering/resistance to what is no longer grips in any form since a long time. If it moves within ones being, is seen and let go. Would the inherent bliss of True Being ever be exchanged with grasping for being an ET seeing more of manifested reality, but suffers because its not enlightened? (more on that later). That is a "hard" shift, it is not just thinking differently. It is for sure not "I am God and imagine all reality", which is just cosplay. It is Reality understanding itself, Infinite Being waking up to itself. What can do the understanding of that? Reality/Being/Infinite Consciousness. Waking up to its True Nature. That last shift is knowing what one really is, and that understanding/realization runs over a short period of time. Waking up. Happens only once. And is final. Is beyond doubt (since these would only be more thoughts/arisings moving within Reality and subsiding into it). The shifts/Awakenings leading towards it go over a longer time, many years. And then of course there are infinite forms of manifestation, ET n+1, with vastly more understanding of the relative manifestations, basking in their understanding of the imagination process, different dimensions, higher realms, non-euclidian space, completely other alien manifestation realms. Humans look like ants compared to that for sure. These beings have been reported since millenia, in all cultures, all times. Reality-creating and maintaining Gods (Brahman, Shiva, Vishnu and endless other names for them). But it is the same True YOU, the only Being or Awareness in existence. The same being. There is nothing outside of it. No other (being, God, alien). And one can have an unenlightened ET, not having realized what Reality really is. Beings of higher realms are not necessarily enlightened. That tale is as old as the spiritual traditions. Although many of these beings of higher planes are enlightened. An unenlightened ET (which by definition has separate-self-elements not transcended/seen through in real time, which are by definition nothing other than the elements resisting the now, or suffering in other words) is a rather sad and suffering figure compared to a being who has realized its True Infinite Being. Calling the lower higher, and the higher lower. Whose modus operandi is that again? But lets not end too serious: It is all an illusion-game, "nobody" really gets lost forever, and Maya smiles lovingly on all not-really-(self)-existing-but-just-appearing children of Reality, humans and ETs alike. Although it can appear & feel very real & serious. Selling Water by the River

For me that was the most tricky stage. One has to install an automized mindfullness-process that cuts of anything separate/I-feeling/I-thought automatically and fast enough, but can't use willful artificial activity for it (because that is separate-self/ego/thought process) again, and that is way too slow and cuts off Nonduality/Awakening). Best description for that stage I found is Brown, Pointing out the Great Way, chapter Nonmeditation. I had to read it dozens of times over the years to get the nuances... Jhanas also work, but in my opinion Mahamudra/Nonmeditation is more sophisticated and efficient. Historically, it was developed in Tibet over a long time with many many practitioners, while Theravada/Jhana looks for me more like way earlier Buddhism. Although it of course also works, see Frank Yang, Daniel Ingram and Roger Thisdell. But all(!) say that at the last stages they needed to add something like Dzogchen/Mahamudra/Do-Nothing meditation and not only willful concentration (artificial activity).

Thisdells stage 3 Big Self/God self to stage 4 No Self. Now the ripening of stage 4 to stage 5 True No Self is left. Nonmeditation-Yoga to disassemble the last remnants of the separate-self/individuality/subtle and fast I-feelings and I thoughts to truly become the Infinite Totality. That stage is tricky, because active effort is often counter-productive "artifical activity". Many items have to fall in place until stage 4 ripens and conforms to the enlightened mind. Luckily, the path tends to show itself to itself. But you can put a blow-torch to the whole separateness burning down anyway, accelerating the progress. Getting rid of these remnants is what open up boundless Nonduality on a permanent basis without psychedelics. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation Yoga&author=Water by the River

https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/let-s-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/meta-awareness-modes-of-perceptions-super-positions-cycling-insight-stages-and-boundarylessness https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/centrelessness-boundarylessness-phenomenology-and-freedom-from-the-cage-of-the-mind https://www.rogerthisdell.com/post/throwing-my-hat-in-the-jhana-ring Hope that is useful. With this information you can align the Jhana path with the descriptions of my original post. Basically, at that stage of the path one can't force it, and Jhana Concentration style becomes less efficient. Something like Mahamudra/Non-Meditation or Dzogchen becomes more efficient at the last stages. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation Yoga&author=Water by the River But not before this stage, shortly before the finishing line.

Yes. And if you let that ripen long enough, this here can happen: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?q="Basis Enlightenment"&author=Water by the River&sortby=relevancy For example: or

You can be an enlightened ET and know what its True Being is. Or a an enlighened human. It is the same True Infinite Being, and realizing that (and the True Nature of any possible being) is Enlightenment. Maybe the ET and its buddies in the link below know a little bit more about (imagined) illusion-appearances arising in True Being than the enlightened human and its manifestation mechanisms. That is what Roger Thisdell means: The enlightened ET sees more waves on the ocean than the enlightened human. But both enlightened ET and enlightened Human have the same True Infinite Being, both can realize they are the Infinite Ocean. That is what Enlightenment makes clear beyond the shadow of a doubt. It is YOU. True You. All of that would become totally clear if one can answer this little Koan: Who is the ET at the end of the movie? Like, really? But for that, ones separate-self-illusions have to die/be transcended completely. One will no longer be human after that, but an Infinite Being containing a human-show. Or an ET-show. Or a whatever n+1 show. The unenlightened ET and psychedelic-state-induced short-term feeling & sensing &understanding like ET seems for sure very impressive from the unenlightened perspective, higher and what not. The ET-experience brings temporary easing from the ever-returning suffering of the remaining unenlightened separate-self remnants. From the enlightened perspective, unenlightened ET is just more form and understanding of manifestation & its mechanisms, and more grasping/suffering/restisting in cycles. A less than smart idea trying to become & understand the n+1 ETs in Infinity and marveling at their wonderful perspectives&understandings of the waves of the Infinite Ocean. That should even be logical from the unenlightened perspective, but will become totally clear with the Clap of the one Hand/Enlightenment beyond the shadow of a doubt. But even before that with some common sense one should be able to intuit that. At least if Maya smiles not too charming. The other perspective (ET & company) ist not coherent nor logical, even from an unenlightened level. But hey, yours truly honestly admits selling the same old water by the same old river sold since millenia is soooo unsexy compared to becoming&rejoicing in (temporary) being & selling ET, I get it. And I do admit its quite a show, so all is good. And maybe the career-move for the next incarnation is actually becoming ET full-time collecting the marbles at the end of the clip? But preferably please only if the chap realizes its own Infinite Being early on, and doesn't grasp/suffer wanting to play marbles... Selling Water by the River

Besides endless amounts of NDEs, OBEs and past life memories... See the books of Christopher Bache for example, Jürgen Ziewe, Stanislav Grof. And countless reports all over the ages, derived from altered states (psychedelic, meditation, OBE, psychics,...). If you can keep the Absolute Perspective all the time in this life in fulltime awakened nondual states 24/7 and no longer suffer&resist, and expect that to hold in the next cycles, your reasoning is partly correct. If that is not the case, the attitude there is no next reincarnation & who cares about Karma will kick back big time in the next existence. Like it already does right now. Basically, its confusing Absolute Truth with Relative Truth. Do you think Infinite Reality is stupid enough to not to be able to store a bunch of tendencies of your relative self going from life to life (called Karma, mainly consisting out of wisdom/transcendence and compassion/love, and a lot of other imprints/tendencies/Karma) in an information bundle called "soul" on a higher dimension in Indras Net, as pretty much all above mentioned sources report? That is what reincarnates. On the relative/illusion-level, not on the absolute level. But I guess for most is the relative/illusion-level still quite "real" and "serious", like in suffering/resisting... All of that is relative appearance, part of the illusion/manifestation. Are you free of anything that reality can throw at you on the appearance level, like totally liberated 24/7? Then you can stop caring about these matters pretty much. But even for Enlightenments-gone-sour (lets make a nice cult to satisfy the remaining needs of a halfway-up-the-moutain not really stabilized Enlightenments that expresses itself not in all dimensions of the enlightened being in an integrated and loving way) that attitude of not caring will be kick-back, this life or the next. Mostly already this life. Anyway, this here is in the opinion of yours truly a quite smart idea: Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour. - Padmasambhava But I agree the show-factor (for the spectators) of spiritual bypassing and/or not taking relative truth ("Karma/Reincarnation") serious is way higher.

Exactly. And the other game in town besides realizing what one truly is: Going exploring & understanding the myriad manifestations and appearances of Infinite Consciousness/Being/Oneself, happening in Oneself, by Oneself, as Oneself, for Oneself, and so on..., from ant to ET to ET(n+1). That, and any other activity that humans engage in... : The clip below... Does God/The hand at the end of the clip like it? Want it? Apparently yes. Of course! (the hand at 55 seconds) Else it wouldn't happen... The rolling-the-rock-up-the-mountain-nearly-infinite-times-show continues until "it" gets tired of it... Selling Water by the River And a little Koan: Who is the ET at the end of the movie? Like, really?

Sure. I just had to laugh on your usage of the word euthanasia. Spiritual Bypassing is a less than smart idea for 95%+ of its aficionados, for reasons I described above. And reality always says hello! sooner or later... And one can spiritual bypass up and down Maslows pyramid. There have even been endeavours to get a camera that can take pictures of ET on the very top of the thing.

Ken Wilber, One Taste: "A third obstacle is the “spiritual bypass” school, which imagines that if you find Spirit or Goddess or your Higher Self, everything else will magically take care of itself. Job, work, relationships, family, community, money, food, and sex will all cease their annoying habits. The despairingly sad thing is, it usually takes ten or twenty years to discover that this is definitely not the case, and then, where has your life gone? So the first half of your life is spent somewhat misguided, the second, bitter. "Tuesday, June 17 For almost twenty years, I’ve done hatha yoga as my main physical exercise. Five years ago, I also began weightlifting, which has been an extraordinary help in writing, meditation, and immune system health—a true testament to integral practice. I’m forty-eight, and I don’t ever remember being this comfortable in the body. Which makes it all the easier to transcend. That is, my experience is that when the bodymind is strong and healthy —not ascetically starved and despised—it is all the easier to drop it, transcend it, let it go. Precisely because the bodymind is running smoothly, with no distracting glitches, it doesn’t hold awareness obsessively circling around it. You can more easily forget it and slip into Witnessing or even One Taste. Of course, neither the ego nor the body is left behind in higher states. They are still present, still functioning, still serving their conventional purposes. If somebody calls your name, you will respond. You know where your body starts and where it stops—this is not borderline or psychotic indissociation. It’s just that your identity is no longer exclusively confined to these lesser vehicles. When these vehicles are functioning smoothly, and not being the squeaky wheel that demands the oil of your awareness, your awareness is free to settle into deeper and higher domains. Of course, you can do this under almost any circumstances, but a strong glitch-free bodymind [and integrated life in general, WBTR] makes it all the easier to drop, and thus find it floating on the ocean of infinity that is its true abode." And same with education, job and finances.