Bodhitree

@UDT Yes that’s been my experience. I have met some senior executives in Fortune 500 companies and those in the pools of General Managers from whom these senior executives are selected, and even in the best companies there is a hard-as-nails competitive focus on whose team has the higher headcount, more succesful products and best releases. These people are not “nice”, and even though IQs are generally high, I wouldn’t count them as particularly advanced. I think that as you develop higher, those areas where you can still earn decent income go down. There seems to be a problem with where any place where you are rewarded with good money requires you to compromise your principles, or present yourself untruthfully, or be ruthless rather than compassionate. Creative endeavours tend to stay clean — if you can master writing, or making music, or even painting, there is a potential life path. Personally I’m done with chasing management roles. My time in that milieu was on the fringes, and I’m not interested in repeating it. But I think it is an interesting area to talk about, so that people don’t tend to invest themselves in areas where it’s difficult to truly develop yourself.

@asifarahim Loneliness often comes together with boredom and impatience, so it’s useful to work on them at the same time. I’ve spent a few years by myself in an apartment on the top floor of a flat building overlooking a beach, doing nothing but studying Buddhism, meditating and some foruming on the net. I only went out for food shopping. Maybe that qualifies me to speak on loneliness, I’m not quite sure. Its about what you want from other people. If there is nothing you want, you will find there is a lot less need to be with them. But it will be necessary to look within to find out what you are used to getting from your interactions with others. A good exercise in mindfulness.

My answer was achievement… I was quite sensitive when I was a young man (sheesh, just realising this is the truth of the matter, I am no longer young) and it was only after I got good at something and proved myself in a social setting that I stopped being overly sensitive.

Everyone has a unique path in this. I think it is possible to talk to others about what engages you, your enthusiasm, without being pushy. It is important to let people know these things are out there, just being silently present is appropriate some of the time but it is not enough on its own. ‘There is of course a certain level of caution to be employed, you need to lead people gradually into these areas. If you immediately start talking about God realisation then they are likely to think you’ve lost your mind. I begin with basic spirituality and some self-development, because it’s a good non-offensive intro into the path. Beyond that, when someone expresses an interest the role I try to take on is as a mentor and a guide. I don’t think any of us holds the fount to the one and only true wisdom, but what we can do is pass on good habits about finding the right information, and this includes the right defenses to avoid getting spiritually bullshitted. The first thing to know about the spiritual field is that 95% of so-called guru’s or teachers are fakes. Our task as mentors is to teach others to sift the gold flakes from the dirt of the river bed. And I’d extend that even to the Buddha: Osho once said, learn from the Buddha but don’t be a buddhist, and he was not wrong. Becoming an -ist or an -ian is the short path to giving up your intelligence and your originality. Once you set out down that way all you are aiming for is being a poor copy of some ideal from history. And there is so much more to being what we are. Every human being has the birthright to be unique, creative, wondering, alive. Lastly I would say, don’t think you are ever done, and don’t get stuck on one source of teachings. We all go through phases, jags when we’re into one thing or another. It’s about taking from these things that which is beneficial, and discarding the rest. Your path is uniquely your own, and no-one can lead you by the hand to enlightenment.

Hmm. This ‘fear of missing out’ is not really my thing. I don’t usually consider myself part of a group or bound to do what others do, I generally just do my own thing with a large ‘don’t care’ sign on my door.

@benny Sounds like you are establishing a very solid foundation to build on. Congratulations for digging yourself out of the mire and starting self development work! A few tips, or areas where you might want to put some focus… Enjoyment… try doing a cookery course or wine tasting… excellence extends to enjoyment you know Spirituality… I would suggest starting mindfulness or yoga (also good for meeting the ladies) Make the mental health a priority… often depression has to do with unhandled life issues The arts… you have a few hobbies, that’s a good start, I would look into finding a passion

@Thought Art I would agree there is no reason to starve. But what do you think is finding your potential in life? How would you measure it — money, family size, or even total number of people whose life you have changed? Is someone who works in a hospice assisting the dying less succesful than the CEO of a Fortune 500 company? I’m getting on towards 50 years old and have engaged in quite a few spiritual undertakings in my life, and have experienced enough success in my careers that I would say I have been at the top, I’ve architected products used by millions of people around the world, I’ve worked at some of the most prestigious tech companies. I’ve also experienced sudden life changing illness and periods of great stress. Currently I am out of a job and living with my parents. I have a good friend who is an ambulance paramedic. He is one of the smartest people I know, but has chosen not to exploit his intelligence but become a Buddhist and help people. Has he fulfilled his potential? Have I? The thing is, you do not know what avenues life will take you down, but if you develop your spiritual potential, and don’t get hung up on status or fame, and can easily let go of things, it will stand you in good stead.

@Ya know The traditional Buddhist answer would be renunciation. The Tibetan Buddhists divide the mind up into beneficial qualities, those leading to enlightenment, and unbeneficial qualities leading to poor karma such as anger, hatred and ignorance. The idea is that you promote and grow the good qualities, and renounce the bad qualities, allowing them to die off. In general after a few years practicing with them I found it to be a pretty good system. It is based on growing into what you want to be. Of course where the rubber hits the road is in observing yourself, looking at what you actually do rather than what your impulses lead you to think. The idea is that the impulses will take care of themselves, as long as what you actually manifest in this world is beneficial to yourself and others and helps them on their path. There is an American Indian story about a grandfather who tells his grandson that there are two wolves doing battle in the old man’s heart, and that one is vicious, spiteful and full of hatred. The other is brave and noble. The grandson asks which will win. The old man replies, the one that you feed.

How so? The Buddha survived on a single grain of rice a day for a long time, before he decided to abandon asceticism for the middle way. We don’t need as much food as we think we do, that’s for sure. But further, a lot of ‘wanting’ is about desire for things that we don’t really need. Cheeseburgers, fast cars, beautiful women, the world is full of things which tempt us. There is a saying, rich is he who does not want anything. That is not external richness that is being talked about, it is an inner richness. Wanting is in the mind. If you can develop a spirit of letting go, an inner attitude of not clinging to thoughts, desires and things, then you are a lot closer to spiritual enlightenment. Highly developed beings live in an attitude of giving and service, and a key step to getting there is not to spend your time chasing all the things that society conditions you to want.

There are no healthy reasons for wanting things. Let go of all desires. Admit you don’t really want anything.

Read up on the history of hell in Christian literature. It’s a real eye-opener, in the Bible there is very little mention of it, it was basically invented in the Middle Ages by various writers and poets whose visions were declared as accepted by the church after their publication.

@flowboy As I understand it, mediumship is a much more controlled experience, a temporary opening of a certain door while the schizophrenic charges along without a seeming care in the world and just flings all those doors wide open. Voices can range from almost-present and pieced together out of partial whispers that you think you hear, to a whole bunch of them literally screaming at you. Reckless, incautious, spontaneous personality types tend to have worse experiences, obviously.

They’ve been around for a long time, but they don’t seem to be making much of an impact. There was a short documentary about them on tv not long ago, comparing how the movement was doing now with what it was like in the 1970’s.

This has been a good read, it’s opened up a few things. Kudo’s to all those who have contributed to the summaries.

@Inliytened1 Maybe it will be so we will have to ask.

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t read posts or threads like this, other than a quick skim to see what is inside. The reason for this is, my realisation may not be the same as yours, and I don’t want to have a catalog of other people’s realisations in my head when the time comes for me to have mine, it would be like “select experience x and replay”. Similarly, sharing these kind of experiences is not the same as the teaching of an enlightened master. It matters what sticks with you that really proves to have made a difference, to have transformed some part of you, and that you can only tell six months down the line.

The booklist is pretty interesting, I noticed a few titles on there that I’d be interested in as well.

@Javfly33 The past is truth, but what we know of it comes only through artifacts that exist in the present. Our view on the past is continuously updated and revised, as new knowledge about the past is revealed. But ultimately it is looking at clues in the here and now which tell us. The past is not a certainty, it is just a shadow.

@Opo Generally I would say the scientist in your film was right. There has been research which says that young people are more vulnerable to the adverse effects of drugs such as marijuana which are known to occasionally bring on a psychotic break, and once you have one of those and the psychiatric medication that goes with it, it is difficult to emerge clean and healthy. Most people who suffer a first psychotic break do so before they’re 30 — about 75% — and about 25% of the population has in their lifetime an experience with a serious mental health issue. There is such a thing as drug-induced psychosis, which is basically going tripping and not coming back down. This is often the beginning of being given a more serious diagnosis, such as schizofrenia. It helps to be well-informed before you go to do something risky.

Hmm, my feeling is that most people who have this strong sense of justice had a wrong done to them early in their life. You may find that most of your impulse to strive for justice comes from that early experience.

@Thought Art 25 is young. I would say work a little on meditation and peace, and the same time that you chip away at the music business. If you put the hours in you will get there. But music like most creative endeavours is a field where not everyone reaches the top, and you should be prepared for that… if you do music for the right reasons, for self expression and for the music itself, whatever you achieve will be ok. Look back in another ten years and see what you have achieved.

So, how did you end up in Bangladesh?

Well this is part of the problem. The people who run psych wards know very little about consciousness, and so they can’t really give you guidance to move through your most high energy states. At most they can slap on some medication to make things calm down again. But really if you had a master’s skills you would be able to get out of that state of mind by yourself. It’s a good indication that you can still be wrapped up in the world and swept away by circumstance.

Leo is not wrong, and the best way to get through immaturity is life experiences. So go do stuff. Not necessarily psychedelics though.

Yeah Leo, he is a real character. Somebody did a thread of summaries of a lot of his videos, I have been working my way through that, it’s kinda interesting. Shorthand for watching for 1.5 hours a pop. Anyway my point stands, be careful what you stuff into your brain, you may find it coming out of your mouth again after a little while.