Preetom

@Leo Gura Is evolution an inherent drive in reality or is it just another perspective we all take it as the God's commandment without questioning. After self-realization (complete dis-identification from ego/karma/personality), is there really any concept of evolution left other than pure being for it's own sake?

@Leo Gura What is your defining moment for Enlightenment? I've been following you for years now and you've had many mystical experiences within a diverse range. But what is the exact milestone/shift that will confirm your enlightenment? Do you have a conceptual model for that? Being a highly strategic guy, you must have some sort of vision to confirm that. Is there a starting point from where there is literally no return? If so what is that in your understanding? Is there a final/completion point? Once again what is that? PS: I'm sorry if you already answered these questions in some video/post. I somehow missed it.

@Martin123 so you don't investigate/inquire on the sense of 'I AM' anymore?

@Martin123 Also can you please tell me what's your basic strategy now on this path? Are you going all out with love revolution? are you doing self inquiry meditation as well? Do you mediate at all? if so what technique are you using right now? Thanks in advance!

@Leo Gura Thanks a lot for answering. How many hours/days/weeks have you sustained that nondual awareness at most before it fades away. And also you talked about testing up a project of using a combination of 5 meo dmt and serious consciousness work to get enlightened in 1 year (like Martin Ball). Are still going with this approach?

See these 2 short animated videos. Hope you gather some insights in to mind and addictions. 1)https://youtu.be/1Je0mu4GG-o 2) https://youtu.be/WwNRXLKoKqY

@Martin123 so will self realization eventually happen? or people with awakened kundalini before self realization will jump to unity consciousness all together. they will completely reconstruct their ego/karma and have the most harmonious loving unified self. But they won't have total and permanent dis-identification and experience the void consciousness. Is this where it's going? And Jan also mentions that true dis-identification can only happen through self-realization. You can't fake it or temporarily have it. If you try hard to dis identify then it's just disowning/dissociation which is basically neurosis.

@Martin123 Have you had what Jan Esmann calls self-realization? Which is complete and permanent dis-identification from small self/ego/karma/personality? There can still be tons of karma/neurosis/ego left but there is literally no identification with it. From what I understood studying Jan's website is that Dark night of soul comes after self realization. Self realization is the very beginning of Enlightenment. There can be a loving self or a dark twisted self in your psyche but there is no identification with any of that. Starting from self realization, its a point of no return. The karma/ego starts restructuring itself (god consciousness stage) and it feels painful and miserable. But you don't suffer/identify with any of that. Since you are pretty experienced with kundalini which generally comes after self realization, So have reached that permanent shift yet?

@Ilya Phenomenal explanation! Thanks for the video. But I would like to know if Leo has any personal understanding on this one or is he taking some other teacher's model as accurate and going for it.

Hope this small vid helps

@Fuse I kind ya feel you man. I think that's the most dangerous side of addictions and self recurring negative thoughts. Yeah Its extremely hard to turn things around when you've abused yourself with porn/food/fetish/bad habits for years/decades. It toxify you on every level imaginable. Any effort or new beginning you start crumbles into ashes in just 2-3 days. You are back at your neurosis again. Even more knee deep than before. It can be one of the miserable experiences. You see your whole life fading away into trash and you can't seem to do anything. I sometimes think "God knows what sort of sick animal I've become". Really it makes us think if we can actually heal ourselves once again taking all the abuse we've done to ourselves into account. You are going through a very challenging change. Many people of this forum are on it as well. I wish you all the best man. Really hope you find a way out and breakthrough forever from this rut.

Jokes aside, you can see it from a hindu perspective. The universe is nothing but the interplay of Shiva (male) and Shakti(female). Shiva is the ultimate nothingness/stillness/awareness itself. Absolutely still. Shakti is the energy counterpart of Shiva. Shakti lures Shiva into a cosmic dance and that's how universe and consciousness comes out of utter nothingness. So its Shakti's nature to disturb the stillness of Shiva in order to immerse into the game of cosmic creation. Like so, women test and excite the energy in male to higher and higher levels so that both can be joined in that heightened rapture. Either in bed or outside..you know.....

Cause she wants the D.

The first step: Love your heart. The middle step: Love your heart. The Last step: Love your heart. Every disturbing experience that grab your attention and open the pandoras box of judgement and micromanaging, you need more love not less. Love becomes the only response to life no matter what arises. Matt Kahn <3 Do this and see the magic of auto correction over time.

@AlldayLoop I will share a new perspective. It's from the book "The Celestine Prophecy". It resonated with me so much. Very briefly here it goes.. Imagine living the 2nd century (1001-2000 AD) in a single lifetime.... At first of this era, everything was under the command of churchmen. They were the middle men in spirituality and every value of life. The population could only reach spirituality through these churchmen by blind faith. General population couldn't even imagine doing something independently without the counsel of these churchmen. Now eventually the churchmen abused/suppressed the whole system and the population slowly started to break free of this blind faith. By 1600, it pretty much got out of hand and people stopped taking the churchmen as their supreme counsel. Suddenly the population felt totally lost and mentally/spiritually devastated. Just Imagine being in a blind faith grip for 600 years, with all the assurance of prosperity and happiness in this life and the next came out to be a total folly. Imagine all your psychological shields and webs getting destroyed suddenly. Now you are confused, depressed as fuck and nothing to hold on to. Then eventually the population decided that they will find the TRUTH of this world by their own effort. Skepticism and questioning and reaching conclusion using one's logical experience started becoming the new rule to understand this world. Science evolved. General people relied on the explorer/scientists to find and present a new truth to them. But alas...nothing comforting came about quickly. Now the population realized that they are gonna have to stay in this planet no matter what. So why not make us comfortable while the scientists take their time to reveal a satisfactory truth. And boom, science, industry, business started growing like wildfire. For the last 400 years, all the resources were invested to invent a more cushy, comfortable, pain free life. All of this without a sense of where we are ultimately heading to. No one questioned a damn thing as their lives were getting more comfortable. Civilization started manipulating the earth ruthlessly to meet it's ends. But there was a cost. The cost was squeezing every ounce of mysticism from reality all together. So that the most convenient systems could be constructed. So by 2000s we realized that we have made our live way convenient. these 400 years brought revolutionary change in life. Now that we have satisfied us to a great degree through materialism and lot of our pain and inconvenience are long gone, the question of spirituality arises once again naturally. Now in our cushy lifestyle, we find asking ourselves, "Now What?", "Where is this all leading to?''. So back to my point, I think mysticism/enlightenment never died. It went through a dormant period. Every single human in this era is destined to face the question of reality sooner or later. We can't shove our heads in sand and pretend to be blind anymore. That existential itch will follow us to our deathbed. I live in a sort of poor, developing country. From all the rural stories I've heard, I sort of intuitively guessed that people living 50 years or more in the past were not faced with existential questions that seriously. Maybe just during catastrophes or at deathbed. Other than that most people kept on living in the same house, in same fashion generation after generation without questioning much. But now in this era, even teenagers are being hit by these tough existential topics ruthlessly. Huge amount of people all over the world are intuitively sensing a huge and hidden hollowness in their entire life and perspective. But most of them are unable to do anything due to closed mindedness and attachment to limiting beliefs. So in this era and the followings, mysticism/enlightenment is not a choice anymore. its like no matter what the hell you do and achieve in life, at one point of your life you are bound to face these existential questions. This itch will follow you to your deathbed. That's why many spiritual teachers call it a very special era where consciousness itself is breaking free from delusion. Sort of like making enlightenment work easier day by day. Hope you get a new perspective on this topic. This universal itch won't stop until the totality of creation readjusts itself to higher consciousness and bring mysticism in its rightful throne.

@Edvard I don't know man. Diseases can be a byproduct of lots of parameters like genetics, environment, psychology, immunity, lifestyle etc. A very complex system indeed. I don't wanna comment on that. But on further note, if we are openminded, masturbation can be looked at from different angles. When we completely heal ourselves sexually and unhook from distorted sexual cravings/views, we can use masturbation for many different purposes. 1) Masturbating + inducing sexual energy and then meditating/concentrating on that energy. Being open to it. It can be powerful mindfulness exercise all throughout the body. Plus learning to feel this energy on ever subtle level thus appreciating and feeling this energy more deeply. 2) Masturbation + concentration can induce creativity. Then using that to boost artistic endeavors and performance. 3) Some people masturbate before hitting the gym and can do some extra work using this energy. Raising one's energy and putting it in any work. you get the idea. But if the sole purpose of masturbation is to ejaculate and feeling that high, then inevitably you feel like shit no matter how you rationalize with it. The body just doesn't feel right with that level of friction. Masturbation + Ejaculation is a thief that comes and robs us. At least in my case.

Hey man, I can relate with that as well. While all the modern knowledge preach masturbation is so healthy and such, I never resonated with that claim through my own experience. Masturbation with/without porn inevitably leave a distaste and disgust for life. Feeling all drained and somber. Recently in an Interview I heard Jan Esmann ( A competent spiritual master in Shaktipath) saying, "Masturbation is a waste of energy. But having sex with someone is an exchange of energy." That made a lot of sense for me. Indeed Masturbation is ultimately a depletion of vital life energy no matter how you look at it. While during sex, two people exchange that life force with each other thus feel more alive and connected given that they appreciate and love each other. So I think a solution might be in shifting from masturbation to having intimate sex.

Male or female this could be a subtle/serious self esteem issue. 1) If someone is interested in me, then maybe I'm better than him/her. So I'll just reject them and run after someone I have less chance of mating. 2) I never got any intimate loving connection from close people( mom,dad etc). That's why I can't get close to this nice person who is interested in me. Cause I'll fuck up and they deserve better than me. 3) then there could be bunch of limiting beliefs, unrealistic sexual orientation through addictions/inattention. In these cases, the victim can't even contemplate a simple, non dramatic relationship.

I'll keep this short: The present state of mind seems to be so dominating. When you feel good or a practice session goes well, you feel like flying up in the sky. Nothing bothers you and you feel able to take on any issue head on....Until the downfall state kicks in. A pain/emotion/disappointment/bad state throws all the wisdom and motivation out of the window. All that remains is an utter distaste and disgust accompanied by a bunch of negative/self defeating affirmations, beliefs, visualizations. Yes it eventually passes but the initial shock is just too much to rationalize with or dis identify from. It can be one of the most miserable experiences on God's green earth. So the question.... How do you deal with states that arise in the present moment without getting blown away in the first place? Is hitting the head against wall miserably until I learn to dis identify the only way to go beyond this? Some people tend to have greater endurance in such situations. Are there ways to increase this capability? Any conceptual framework, practice, mindset that helped you a lot to pass through this miserable newbie state?

Thanks guys! The level of cooperation and understanding of this place is just phenomenal. Its actually hard to stick here and not do the work for long Maybe I'll open a journal here to record my journey and stuff so that newbies after me can find some concrete and real info on the work that's necessary.

@Ilya There is this video of Maharaj that everyone shares. I haven't watched it. I am reading his book "I AM THAT". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbOvjBchKkg&t=3998s What I'm finding through my own experience is that whenever an addiction, neurosis, negative thought, belief emerges, It calls for attention. Really that's how the body responses when something is just 'not right'. When you are in perfect bliss/flow state, there is no recurring self consciousness and call for attention. So when an issue arises and I KNOW that it has arise, any thing I try to do about it or evade it just backfires on me. From that 'troubled' state any action I take is accompanied by self talks like, " You are a miserable fuck! Look how deep you are into shit and now trying to wipe it off.." so on and so forth. It all internally reinforces the very false perception that created the neurosis in the 1st place. So inherently I'm coming from a place of lack and unworthiness when I am fighting against an issue. So what I do is realize that there is the witness of whatever arises. Neither the witness nor the witnessed is 'Real'. One cannot exist without the other and they rise & dissolve simultaneously. What I AM is beyond both. The Supreme reality that allows this play of witness and witnessed to exist. The very stopping and acknowledgement of this truth (Really I am trusting Maharaj here until It becomes my permanent abiding experience) helps me dis identify from whatever is happening and accept it as it is. Then I continue my day doing my block time practice sessions. That's how I'm dealing with all the blockages in my life right now. I can't forcefully will or think myself to break free from neurosis. I've left the job of transforming me on the daily practices I am doing. The investigations/insights are done often so that I don't fall into traps and quit my practices. Hope that made sense PS: This is entirely my experience. Brute force never really worked for me. Either the work spontaneously happens or not. The difficulty of the work also doesn't matter in my case. I've heard many stories how people quit decades of hard addictions like smoking, obesity etc through willpower at one go. But it never worked in my case.

@Zippie Just the very fact that I'm in my 20s and probably gonna live 50 more years if I don't die by some accident or kill myself. It would be a total disgrace to wake up in the morning everyday with a shear disgust for life, hating my life and playing victim all the way....for 50 years. This image itself gives me a shock to get out of everyday mindlessness and practice attention & sincerity starting now! Two valid ways to overcome addictions and move more towards high conscious life. 1) Get really serious with self inquiry. Not just a 30 minute meditation session. You must self inquire dozens of time a day for few minutes. Just the questioning and resting in curiosity unhooks a lot of your limiting beliefs instantly. Question everything! All the recurring thoughts, your self image, your past story, your future expectations every single thing! Start reading "I AM THAT" By Maharaj and watch your life transforming through honest investigation. Also when cravings arise for a certain thing, immediately contemplate death and realize it's not gonna save you from misery. Understand that the object of addiction really has no inherent pleasure or purpose in it. It's you who have attached some sense, meaning, taste for that object. 2) Choose the path of unconditional self love and self acceptance. Go all the way with love love love! If you think that's enough love, time to give even more sincere love! Sincerely repeat "I love you" thousands of time a day with each breath and shower your heart with love! When cravings arise, say "This is the most loving thing I can do to my body and to myself" and engage in that addiction wholeheartedly, lovingly! Don't bring shame or other conflicting feeling. Just love and be an addict and see the distaste you grow for those addictions within weeks! I recommend Matt Kahn. Start with this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFS84Jp1qfc Start the Love revolution. Keep listening to Matt Kahn Lectures from 'True Divine Nature" youtube channel. You get the idea. Choose a line of work and go full board with it! Right now I'm all down with Maharaj and Matt Kahn. The state you are in is a painful one. I myself am recovering from it! All the best to us

My own experience says otherwise. I've never successfully overcome any addiction or neurosis by brute force. It just doesn't work for me. I may evade neurosis through willpower....just to fall even deeper into the trap in the next moment. Nowadays, I find myself unhooked from my gross addictions naturally. Gosh...I tried so hard for 3 years. Watching videos, reading books, daydreaming, making promises, changing my outer circumstances etc what not!! Every single effort was paid in double by relapsing even harder than before. Now things being settled a bit, I'm really curious about if we possess any personal will to change anything at all! I'm sorry if I sound like a victim loser but it's difficult to explain my current paradigm. It's like you can only get your ticket to heaven by suffering and paying your dues. Only when the lessons sink into your bones. Right now what I've realized is that I really have NO control to whatever happens expect being aware of the knowing of that event. Nisargadatta Maharaj helped me a lot in this regard. His words are like a pull from the Supreme Reality.

@Ryan_047 I feel you man. I wish we all could just give up our neurotic acquired customs and hug each other. You can seek professional help if its available to you. But remember that the level of intimacy, care and understanding that you want can only be provided through your own loving attention to yourself. You have two choices. Either seek this intimacy in the wrong places like a hungry ghost or you can dive deep inside you with a sincere intention of loving every single thing that arises within you. This video is a great place to start. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_ameLVhsIM Then I would recommend the book 'Six Pillars of Self Esteem' by Nathaniel Branden. This is probably the only psychology book you have to master to go beyond the realm of psychology. Read it like a textbook. Sincerely reading and note taking for one hour a day and reflect on the lessons. I'm convinced that almost ALL of our issues are either a escape or a defense against low self esteem. The author defines Self esteem as the immune system of consciousness. The one vital parameter controlling every other psychological phenomena. Finally, it will take some time. consistency is the key. I myself is at the very beginning of this process. The self-loathing and fear that have been created through a decade of self denial and inattention would take at least 1-2 years to recover and completely heal. Hang in there brother!

@Martin123 It's impossible to suppress it forever. My monkey mind tried so hard to desensitize me and make me give up this path by making me forget about all this completely. But again and again, through hundreds of self-denial and self-loathing episodes, I somehow found myself recommitting once again. Reading books, finding the right techniques and practicing them etc. that's pretty much my life story for last 3-4 years. Episodes of developing and losing awareness. Very recently, I'm starting to realize that it's not really my choice. I just can't shut off my consciousness and pretend that nothing is happening. This longing for awakening will probably chase me to my death bed. So I got no choice but to honor it and let it take it's course.