Natasha Tori Maru

@Inliytened1 Followed back! An addendum - I think going to body method is pretty hard for most people. Maybe even impossible. You need to be so clean with everything. Organic, no chemicals (or reduced), sleep discipline, no sugar (at all), minimal meat. No overeating or over-exercising. And above all, no hatred or negativity toward the body. No punishing the body. No negativity to looks or appearance. All this really helped me, but I realize most people think I'm a freak because I won't eat the pastries at the office. Or won't touch fast food etc. It's a level of discipline most don't want. They want pleasure.

Grounding in my body forces a state change. Takes me out of the mind chatter. So movement + breath. Thoughts begin to slow, then cease. From here expanding consciousness comes so easily (for me). The contemplation/self-enquiry is essential. Otherwise, I haven't found a way to integrate the experience. And without the contemplation & integration the elevated consciousness cannot be taken into typical human life. Small breakthroughs get carried into the relative domain when I nail this, but it is slow work to do while also working full time. Because I have to work in the relative domain to access the absolute - and the body is confined to this domain - working in movement accesses higher states of consciousness. Because in this reality, the body has to act as the element to induce friction against all the things that are 'defined' ie chairs vs bodyweight, textures vs skin, smells vs nose, sunlight vs eyes to produce experience - or being. I think my strange approach is working at consciousness from both angles - the mind removing all thinking/ideas/concepts while pulling all awareness into pure experience of sensation. Mind & body the same. Leveraging the relative to access the absolute.

I experienced it as truth - love. No time. No-self. All the silly aphorisms we use around here - not that it is common at all!

A practice - a tool you used. I don't think it matters how you chip away at the relative, through practice, to slowly reveal the absolute. The tool isn't relevant. I used self-enquiry (deconstruction) & body scanning/energy sensation. There are many different techniques. For my unique physiology, working with the body, to access sharpening of the mind, was the most effective. Bodywork is the missing link for most people. Maybe the Buddha kept it simple (we don't actually know this). I do thank you, for sharing your process

I 'am' being - and experience is how that being knows itself. I should have ended the statement above with '?' because it cannot be concluded. Experience is happening > something exists > being Maybe more implicit - it feels as if the experience and being collapse into the same thing during meditation. No me having an experience, just what is true right now... I am deviating from the topic - apologies

@Anton Rogachevski That little 'wound' of unclosed, un-concluded thought about what experience is - UnbornTao is ripping the scab off for more surgical brain probing... @UnbornTao I'll have another go... Experience is... when seeing, there is the coming together of visible form, the eye, and visual consciousness. When hearing, there is the coming together of sound, the ear, and auditory consciousness. When touching, there is the coming together of tactual sensation, the body, and tactile consciousness. When thinking, there is the thought, the mind, and mental consciousness. Combination of sense faculty and object... and a corresponding sensory consciousness arises... Immediate direct experience... Being.

Do you not see the irony? You are calling out others for introducing techniques/systems to use as a way to engage meditative states as 'overcomplicating', 'unnecessary'. And then simultaneously implanting this belief in 'enlightenment' 'awakening' - when belief removal is where its at. It is a belief until it is lived Truth. Doing what you are doing is going to confuse people more. The only way is for others to engage in the process with no aim for an outcome. Only to discover for THEMSELVES what is true. Not what is true for YOU. Which is why you guide to the truth. You don't shove some foreign belief or aim into someone's head. You are taking away all the magic from the process - and no I am not lying to you. I don't know how this isn't totally clear to you, if you have experienced this as you say.

@Inliytened1 I don't think having a goal of awakening is a good thing with this sort of work. You place your base within a space of lack 'I am not enlightened'. Setting yourself up for disappointment if you don't reach it - some people may never reach awakening or enlightenment. But through the process, they expand consciousness. Isn't it about the process? Also this 'awakening' is just another belief to embed into people.

You can sense this unwinding energy when someone dies. Without going into details, I've been with people in the natural death process. As their mind goes, thoughts begin to slow. Their self is dying before the body. I always felt this like energy unwinding. The self dissolves and the dying person comes into being right before the end. You are witnessing a person come into an essential state right before all things cease. You can feel this in hospice care. If you are sensitive enough. ofc I voted for unwinding

Nigh impossible. I really enjoy it though. It is the greatest counter to the stress of construction. The more frequently I touch the state, the greater the stress load I can handle.

Haha it is one way to eliminate thinking, ay?

It's giving cinderblocks of raw truth to the skull <3

This is just an ideal. When you know what it is and just do without thinking - this seems obvious. But you need to get there. The way we are raised - inoculated against spirituality, our truth - leaves people totally lost with this stuff. Deconstruction is what you do to achieve the state. And in my experience, to get at the being state, there is always some deconstruction needed. Even if all it takes is 2-3 minutes of deconstruction after a full day of hard, stressful work. Then into that state. Like taking a hot shower at the end of the day - you emerge cleansed. The shower is like a deconstruction.

Isn't this just deconstruction?

Yes. However, when one is confused, they typically aren't able to identify the source of the confusion. Highlighting the concept or frame they are using is like a torch illuminating an fox lurking in the dark. THERE IT IS! Now I can shoo it away Give them the frame/concept so as they grow, they learn to discern experientially. They will naturally outgrow. And so, discard. I just try to show the next step on their personal road to the truth. Just telling the truth never really works. They have to find it for themselves

Ah yes, I get you - we have to use concepts to illustrate after all I do not know - can you? Definitely as you describe - concepts without identity. Usually while during normal life the thought is 'That's the future - a fantasy'. 'In the past again, a story'. And these are always concepts or narratives/ideas/beliefs. It is consistently a story about the future, or an attempt to understand something. I have never been one to dwell on the past. Regret, envy, jealousy. I don't have much experience of them. I don't really know how I think all the time, as it is so fast I cannot grasp it. All I know is all elements of my ego are me actually doing it. Thoughts don't ever just come out of nowhere. Same with feelings. They don't come out of nowhere. Always self generated. Always a cage. I am consistently attempting to find a frame and systematic way to understand something. This is something I am trying to actively stop. As it gets right between me and meat of the experience. The challenge of society and this way of life is that you cannot get far without actively understanding things. Survival ay? FUCK IT So, when we try to engage in these practices.... well. We have everything working against us, eh? Because I was raised in a very odd and isolated way - many of the structures of society that work against 'being' weren't present. I was in that experience until age 20 or so. Then life got in the way. Now it is a return to what I previously had. You are way ahead of me on the path if you are 25 - and although I should not compare - it is more a way for me to feel so happy for you <3

I should hope so! I will say for myself, there is always something to deconstruct. I can experience, and have experienced, no-self states. Being. I don't like to share stuff about enlightenment - I don't want to taint anyone with belief. Sometimes I do enter states of being outside of meditation. But only ever following some intense and prolonged sessions. Additionally - my other way to experience being is to do art. The process for me is timeless. Sun goes up, sun goes down. I won't notice. Just the pencil as it is destroyed against the paper - and creating something else simultaneously. I highly recommend creativity like this! But outside those states I am constructing all over again.... what a crack addict I am The deconstruction is an ever-present necessity. I don't want to think about waiting for an awakening or aiming for it, as this is something else to deconstruct. All I know is I am DOING this - I can tell when I do it, and I am gradually working on halting this in its tracks. This whole process is what we have been taught our entire lives - and I have 39 years of this habit to break >.<

Yes - that trust that you will know precisely what to do, and when, exactly as you should. You won't forget whatever it is you are thinking of doing in the future. Because there is no future - that world doesn't exist. It is part of the conceptual landscape of reality the very act of deconstructing is attempting to surgically remove. The same with the past. All things we are actively doing that remove you from being. There is only now and your direct experience. You are NOT that thing. No fear - that's a big one for me. No fear at seeing your end, because it is truly the beginning. Deconstruct the fear, as you are afraid of the no-self. I still cannot understand the crew here who meditate constructively. I don't understand how it works - I take on beliefs and concepts like an addiction!

Sounds hella Warhol-esc - I'M IN. What is hiding in what we consider 'the mundane?' A study in under-stimulating the population

@Leo Gura I'm deliberately attempting to explore this hypnagogic state at this time. I was just trying to be helpful with a technique. The stone holding thing worked for me even when not trying to enter the hypnagogic state ☹️

This. I don't think he recognises anything beyond self.

After a lot of practice the sleepiness goes. Most of the time now I enter a hypnagogic state rather than sleep. I call the sleep drifting 'clicking out'. So my method to 'click in' was to hold a huge mineral (paperweight, rock, anything heavy really. I just like this chunky Tibetan quartz I was gifted) in both hands, with a ceramic plate on my lap. As soon as I seriously click-out I drop the weight and the sound forces the click-in. It takes some getting used to due to a bit of muscle soreness, but it trained me out of slipping into sleep states.

I never meant to imply my motivations were totally selfless. More so that, there is alternate meaning in my work, so my stressors are different. At the end of the day, if the business isn't doing well, I sacrifice my pay so others can remain employed (which has happened when times were trying). For some perspective, I have worked jobs with very high pay. I have had the experience you describe regarding intermittent reward. I attend to my duties to attempt to influence a positive result, without any feelings towards the action itself. This makes it -feel- rather selfless. I don't dislike any task. But in the end, it is simply survival. Perhaps my lack of focus on wealth is simply Maslow's hierarchy of needs; already satisfied that one! Every single situation in life, for myself, is as you describe. A study of deception. Passion. Mystery. Dynamics. Most of the time my role is to manipulate others to perform a task to mutual benefit. I leverage emotion. I am a master manipulator, so never trust me. Sly

I am not the sort to be impacted by that personally - I have enough wealth now I do get adrenaline spikes from my work - and huge rushes. But only when significant meaning is involved. Because I only work in commercial medical and science fields, my adrenaline response is massive when we approach handover and my own fuckup is stopping patients getting back into an area for critical care. Or anyones fuckup, really. But I only get the stress response from the PM side of the business. The ONLY reason I work in this field is to give back to society by providing skill to expand our medical infrastructure. I will say the quality of construction work in this field is required to be top notch. Also, I am a part owner, which complicates things further. More responsibility. But means I do see huge bonuses. It feels nice but I don't ultimately care like I do for my work and how it gives back to the world.

Appreciate the breakdown! So, this mentally induced stress response from a thinking standpoint - I do experience the enhanced focus, adrenalin and dopamine from the event IE I have several contractors to coordinate, I am waiting on a callback from one that relies on a delivery I have booked. One is waiting on information from the architect before I can schedule. Here, I am experiencing many unknown variables (architect response, delivery confirmation, scheduling with the hope contractors aren't booked) and slight stress at having no action steps but to wait. Then immediate action and accurate planning is needed as soon as I have more information. In the above example - after the event I am drained. There is a perceived focus backlash regardless of the outcome being good / dopamine was released. Counter this to the response being linked to a difficult operation (requiring creative problem solving) - this time planning out the recladding of a window that requires fabrication in 2 parts. How I choose to perform this operation will win a $4mill tender on a job. I have to minimize time, cost and ensure standards are met. I could fabricate the steel netting and frame offsite and crane it in - requiring expensive crane hire and coordination. I could have the frame and netting tray trucked in and welded onsite - this might blow out costs as there would be additional labour in lieu of the crane. Additionally I would require a scissor lift here. This also relies on timing of contractors. If the whole piece is made offsite - the eyelets for the netting can be welded, stopping water ingress. If we install onsite - they will need to be bolted in which will mean we will need flashing due to water ingress. Many ways to skin a cat etc But here, there is a solution somewhere that will minimise time & cost. In the example above there are creative solutions I have to walk through considering all the constraints. This is combined with the stress of a hard deadline for quote submission. In this last scenario - the right solution - the AH-HA - is such a kick! The best times I have are when I come up with a strategy to do something in a way never done before that optimizes all of the above. I don't feel as much cognitive stress and focus backlash after. For this reason I love doing the project planning and tendering. The project management? Not so much Maybe this is similar to reacting vs responding. I can imagine Nilsi is finding creative solutions with negotiating contracts (this is also part of my job - negotiating with state and federal governments for our construction head contracts) that work to the mutual benefit of both parties. The only difference is, I have done it so much now I don't have much of a response adrenaline wise. But I still find both of the above processes totally different to the cognitive benefits of physical limit training !