Natasha Tori Maru

@ExploringReality Yes this always happens - same with the 'What is Experience' contemplation thread. It's easy for fall in the meta move of circular thinking

@theleelajoker A very sly way to put people on the spot and expose ego and insecurity! I enjoy talking and performing for audiences so it would be a fun experience for me... But I can already hear my sister talking about being embarrassed. Or how stupid it is when we have words etc I wish I could FORCE others to regress to child-like wonder - before society gets their claws into them with all these 'concepts' 'frames' 'ideas' 'language' Into the bin! I didn't even realise singing in music was actual words for a long time... embarrassingly long time! I thought it was just using the voice like an instrument to make sounds

@aurum Great share - thanks for the link. Agree with your take. @PenguinPablo I think there will always be some form of emotional entanglement going on (even if just slight, could be regard even) - how one deals with it is where their level of professionalism arises. Even if we aren't always aware of the emotions, they are generally there. Unless one is a sociopath. Just my thoughts !

The topic almost feels bigger than one session of thought can juice from it - so there will be more: The linguistic surroundings - words that come before and after: The bag is light - The light turned on Situation - so who where when and of course, 'what' is happening: A dinner by candlelight (light is ambience) - At the gym (light is the weight) The cultural framework, which would be, I suppose, shared assumptions and meanings... 'Light' in terms of Christianity vs 'light' in physics class Personal loading and association - ones own experiences and biases Intention - what is attempting to be communicated - subtle cues in tone, emphasis. Gesture... The rules of language so grammar, structure. The way the brain parses the flow of a sentence and when it expects nouns, verbs, adjectives etc With language it appears it is not seen directly at all - it is always constructed. So the recognition of language as an example of context, is a contextual act of the mind. I suppose then, experience (and meaning) is co-created and not given? Reality doesn't 'show up' - we must meet it half way as experience is definitely not something we passively receive. The mind is an essential part of the experience making machinery.

Balderdash! @PenguinPablo

tl:dr THE HORROR OF BEING KNOWN Within my own experience, as I have gotten older, people are less bothersome to me. I am completely at ease in social situations, in elevators, waiting in line, around my family or friends. I don't worry about judgement, I just move physically how I like. Comment how I like. I speak less in general, but don't hesitate to blurt things out or address total strangers. I don't share my opinions unless really probed for it. You could say I am steadfastly authentic - or stubbornly earnest The result is that curiosity is peaked from other people. This is the only part of the situation I personally struggle with. I don't know WHAT the other people want to know - I don't know what to give them. Because there is a large sense of them wanting to understand and grasp how this authenticity works. I want to be clear here - as much as this is entangled within ego, I don't use this to define myself because I don't really know what this quality is. And due to the probing of others, I am quite left with ??? because I myself do not know how to answer. So some of this is born of the fear I am going to cause them frustration when I cannot enunciate what I am doing that results in the carefree, accepting and earnest presence I naturally have. Often those around me go from very curious, probing - to very very turned off when I cannot answer - it is perceived as rejection. And through this process the other person holds me responsible for their reaction. I don't have a problem with this - I know its their problem. At the same time, I enjoy intimacy - but this problem causes others frustration. The 'other' always thinks I am holding something back. I am gatekeeping something - some knowledge. But there is nothing there! I can only imagine I could possibly have a block, or these individuals (almost bloody everyone!!) have some attachment issues or trauma. But I suspect a lot of this may be due to my process of getting close to others. It's through shared experience. Not words. Only actions shared. Experience shared. That's when I see the person more clearly and felt known. That, to me, is real intimacy. Not words. In the doing. Love is a verb. I think I just have a problem with language being the method of communication >.<

My scumbag hands betrayed me! I was quoted before I could edit - so I felt, I will leave it be

I buttload 😜 I can tell in meetings with clients when they lose context - so I rely on reading body language to scan for confusion as most people don't ask questions when confused. Context appears to be needed for subjectivity - do we think direct experience occurs when context is missing? Perhaps psychedelics delete context

Like... words not actually describing or being the thing it refers to? This issue of words keeps popping into my contemplations in a most unwanted way... some rather rude thoughts from my morning 'walking the dog contemplation' : The word 'LIGHT' Turn on the light - means illumination This crowbar is light - means not heavy I prefer light colours - pale, not dark I am a light sleeper - means easily awakened Same word - four meanings. The only thing that tells you which is which is the context. So my only derivation is that a word doesn't describe a thing on its own - the context activates the meaning. Words are symbols. Not the actual thing. Meaning is not in the word. So this naturally must mess with experience right? See a tree and instead of sensing bark, smell, sound, light flicker - my brain goes 'tree'. Directness is gone, mystery deleted. And I stop seeing - I think 'tree' and the language effectively stole my true experience. And the 'borrowing context' further minces the pie - associations from past uses of a word dump all over new experiences...

I am more bent to the opposite direction - I feel very mundane and always have. Very basic, very boring. I felt my lived experience was very similar to most - although deep down I was rejecting this difference I felt. I never expressed a lot of myself to the external world in an open, authentic & earnest way because I didn't think there was much there to be interested in. Obviously this is tied to having dogshit self worth - which was my main issue, since resolved. Fear of my own potential was another one I had to get at with the demolition crew When I did open up - boy was I shown something amazing! My perspective was welcomed - and not just welcomed - treated like it was alien. And many interactions I have with people - especially when they get close to me - become like this strange thing where I can sense them looking into the abyss within me and they have NO IDEA what they are looking at. And neither do I.... Because I grew up with no TV in an artists studio, removed from normal reality, surrounded by taxidermied animals and human skulls, I have this way of looking at things that is non-standard. I lack of a lot of the beliefs that others have. I understand it now as being akin to someone trying to render a drawing of a vase of flowers. People who proclaim to 'not be able to draw' are literally trying to render the vase how they see it - and what comes out falls short. They feel they have failed - but its not a skill failure - its a failure to really see the constituents of the flowers in the vase. They didn't see it how I saw it. I see negative and positive space, I see the vanishing perspective slightly distorting the form, I see the colours of the objects all around that illuminate the flowers in the vase that the brain filters out. I see a series of shadows and light hitting objects. A cylinder for the vase and millions of circles making the flowers. So I really have this positive outlook for others - I firmly believe people are capable of amazing things. It is just their perspective - that they think they see - holding them back. Like rendering the vase, not a skill issue, a failure to really see what is in front of them. The skill can come later with simple practice. But seeing accurately is key. The truth of the flowers in the vase. Obviously this isn't totally unique at all - simply a creative artists mindset I suspect - but it is a huge difference I simply never realised. But this way of looking at things applied to much of my existence. Even in my construction work - I perceive things others do not. Which means I effortlessly execute things in a way my colleagues do not understand. It is outside their experience so they simply have no idea what is happening. They think it is this magical juju I do... HAHA! It was how I saw things around me that made me different - I had an embedded, deconstructed view. I give credit to my late grandfather for this perspective. Because I never got seriously close to many people regarding this internal vision and how I perceive - I honestly felt I was NOT special. I just knew there was a difference and had no fucking idea what it was. Peoples reaction to me was the evidence of some difference, but I couldn't understand because of us all being locked in our own perception. I projected out my experience, resulting in a lot of frustration with others - and rejection of them as a result. The whole process of attempting to see how I see and showing another was this arduous task I honestly couldn't be fucked engaging in. It is worth it to me now. I just acknowledge the effort of it all. I don't need many people. Just a couple of gems I did get a lot of connection and socialisation when younger. Went aloof, and now a slow return to connection. But seeking a depth I know can be experienced - I just haven't found it yet. I digress - but just sort of marvelling at the differences there! Most of the issue with thinking I was mundane was a product of never really letting anyone in Yep this, I enjoy this. I think the ordinary and mundane is where all the juice of truth lies... No one would think to look there MUAHAHAHAH!

@Razard86 Well said - you are truth

As soon as you say this though - you are immediately stepping into a 'non-acceptance' mindset. You have placed yourself in that state. Actively. What is to happen if you just drop all thought with respect to acceptance? Do we perceive acceptance as an existential component of reality? If yes, we are doing the 'not-accepting'. So this is the art of - not doing. The above also implies there is definitely some self still present

Does Leo have a video on flirting? Because there is a LOT to it - it is really a crafty amalgamation of wit, context, tension, playfulness, charm, boldness, coyness, intrigue, provocation... its often suggestive as fuck also I actually LOVE it - but actively hold back because I dislike leading others on with false expectations. It really gives me an idea of how sharp someone's noggin is

I experience unnecessary suffering only when wedged in the future - or the past. When I am thinking or judging the moment. Experience with perception on top, judging on top, thinking on top. All heaped on top of experience. All manifestations of the self manifest to survive. The future and past are just memories and they aren't directly connected the reality of what I am experiencing right NOW. So they are not real. This usually starts the unravelling of the suffering. Judging is thinking - this is another one that is a narrative people usually insert into their reality. Once you see all the layers you ham-fist on top of your experience, unnecessary suffering dissolves

You might be experiencing large shells of ego coming away and experiencing that sensation of 'no longer getting in your own way?' You say what you mean. No overthinking You don't worry about others judging you for pure expression. You don't 'dislike' the laundry. Just an experience. Stuff becomes effortless feeling? Indication you are walking the path... Perhaps flitting between integrating and realising? There's always a shitload more self, but the process shows you how you are the one who held you back

You will find that this: Will just.... happen

The question would no longer be pertinent upon realization. You would have to enquire - why would you be aiming for something? What do you think we would be left with, after no-self?

There is a lot of time and care put into this. Appreciation, much much

One other con that isn't listed (not sure if this applies in the US, I'm Australian) but a credit card is counted as a debt against you (regardless of balance) if you ever go for a bank loan.

Well, they say if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him

A human Being

@AlienGeometry sounds like CE5 / Steven Greer stuff ?

This. Is. The. Shit. Conscious relationship. I am a seeker of it. I really appreciate the share - thank you

I do have to remind it to be an arsehole again - so you are on to something there