Natasha Tori Maru

@LoneWonderer Agree ! Appreciate the topic bump nonetheless - tis my own frustration with the topic

@LoneWonderer It cut out half the irrelevant stuff. She swings around a big dick with phrases like 'outside of time and space' 'interdimensional beings' 'defies physics' WHAT? Just casually drops that shit. Doesn't define 'interdimensional' or 'being'. What is 'outside time and space'. What exactly is in 'defiance of physics'? Just drop some fancy words and shit all over the epistemological/ontological aspect that is screaming for service. No experts tapping in. I do really wish serious physicists/science took this seriously. But that would probably force them too take a hard look at their own assumptions. There's also the crazy label they get slapped with... C'est la vie

This is a shortcut summary of the above Rogan interview - I'm pretty much with this reporter. More hearsay. zzzz

100% I fucken die inside looking back - but there is no better way to test the ego Guts all laid out in forum posts, ripe to be eaten by the cannabalistic vulture I am.

Hmmm hmmm going into some hard wriggly topics here: Art & creativity can be looked at as imitation/compilation/repetition with a twist. We can use Andy Warhol as an example here - many of his works were just copies presented in alternate ways over and over. Repetition. The Campbells soup can, the Marylin Monroe prints. He has been heavily criticized for this - but it is still a creation. And he is still regarded as a popular artist and original creator. Could you argue that Leo's teaching (actualized.org) is a similar original teaching, based purely on the amalgamation of works that Leo has grafted together? One could argue that, although he has learned and incorporated the works of other masters, it is still something original he is presenting. Has anyone else taken all of these masters and presented the same stitched together view? As you can probably tell I take the subject of art and creativity quite seriously... and this turns into a discussion about 'what is art?' 'What is creativity?' COME AT ME BROS

@UnbornTao Warning points? Warning points. 😈

I do not think so. Might want to look into this as there could be confusion here. You have to agree to use English definitions and understandings otherwise there is no point talking

@LoneWonderer Thank you! I've been thirsty recently. Going hard at remote viewing in lieu of more UAP stuffs Will let you know what I think

@Inliytened1 Indeed I am rather enjoying this dyad and it is helping me refine my own understanding - so no effort wasted. As long as we are aware its just thoughts and some verbal jousting. No one gets upset... I am happy to get into this existential sloppy mess !

So your brain 'creates' the illusion? This is something to be considered with some serious enquiry You would still have feelings, see shapes, hear, smell, touch. What happens when there is no attachment? Is there still love? Awareness & perception - I think these are often lumped together, but they are not the same beast. Awareness = the light is on. You can be aware the light is on without actively noticing or interpreting it. Awareness doesn't choose what you experience, it just 'is'. It is more like a passive presence. A capacity to know something is happening. Perception = what the light is shining on and how you interpret it. Perception is like how awareness gets filtered through your senses, nervous system, beliefs and mind. It includes interpretation, recognition and meaning making. It is very active in that it involves the brain processes, labels, comparisons. They are very much 2 different things. So how would you answer this: taking into account awareness without perception?

This. The only thing I am getting from the conversation is that there is a total refused to drop frame/consider ANY alternative. Not even as a simple thought experiment. Ironically, this is the opposite of the 'openness' principal reiterated. I am hanging on because the questions keep coming after I feel its done Edited to add: I think the problem is 'no-self' is being looked at through the lens of the ego and identity. And because this frame is being clung to, it sounds like severance from being human. Erasing being human. But it is the idea that the permanent 'me' is false. Human experience is still had, felt with more genuine compassion and a heightened feeling of interconnectivity. Humanity is bigger than just the 'you'.

Have you considered this trigger may be within the body? Say, the intellectual capacity to grasp the fear and rationalize it is well understood. However, it remains in a strange way to be triggered in a seemingly unknown fashion. The brain is connected to the entire body through the nervous system. There could be the possibility this connection has stored some primal fear in the body? I used to suffer from bouts of crying with no cause. Nothing linked to my cycle. No thoughts appeared to trigger the emotion. I do a lot of yoga practices. Whenever I do a hip opener I end up crying in pure despair and grief. Uncontrollable. The same feeling as above! Nothing will stop instant tears and the feeling in these poses! Consistently - memories of how my grandfather passed arise when I bring awareness to thought. I have grieved the loss of him (14 years ago), yet, without fail, the hip opener will trigger the emotion. This happened to me to the extent I stopped performing any sort of hip opener. Later I really decided to challenge myself to face it. Hip opener after hip opener. Self calming techniques. The weird crying and emotion bouts stopped. And although I cannot say there is direct evidence of a connection, it remains a phenomenon I experienced.

You just said it was an illusion above - you used the words 'image' 'projections'. Your words. Read the question again - this isn't an answer. Additionally - this is a question. Answer with a statement. What is awareness without self? You are a smart cookie - you understand these questions. And if you don't, don't rush to answer. Have a think on it.

One thing I have not done - and am VERY interested in. My colleague has attended a few and highly recommended them also. General meditation practice (2/3 hours on the weekends) had a noticeable effect. I would assume the above would be even more-so! My little side project with this work is dream exploration and OBE stuff. Thank you for your advice 🙏

This is no-self. You still have awareness

Red = the illusion Blue = have you considered this is NOT useful? Contemplated what life would be, as a human, without it? What do you think that might be?

@Breakingthewall Impulses may arise in the moment to be followed. Then there is a movement, a change in vision. Tactile sensation of the doorknob. The feeling of legs moving, feet meeting the pavement. Various lifeforms can do this without self awareness.

@Breakingthewall So you think it is a permanent part of being a human?

@Joshe It was a really weird ego moment bloody hell... on the one hand I was chuffed he was able to have a great experience, and on the other I felt like maybe he was using the understanding of women I gave him against them! But it wasn't the case at all - I ran into these girls next morning in the kitchen and usually had breakfast with them. They just genuinely loved him because he was able to engage his own emotions authentically and expressively without putting the weight of them on the women. Which ties back in nicely to your topic the 'Job of the man is to be the rock'. For him it isn't about repressing or hiding emotions, its about expressing. Being comfortable doing so. Holding space for his OWN emotions as well as the women he was with. Helps he is always fucken laughing! And he just takes them on fun experiences. That's all - and they land all over his dick lol He did tell me he has some tricks - like doing LOTS of things together in one night or day so it feels like there is more experience and bonding (generating trust faster). Also never pressuring the girls. If they don't want to go back to his, he doesn't care. He still treats them exactly the same. Later down the track they end up in his bed. LOL I work with him in construction so you can imagine how much of the inner carnivore of men I see (with my own eyes, and through him). The tradies sometimes ask me for tips. It feels like handing them weapons. I think it just comes down to emotional engagement and generating fun and laughter. Boom, done. I get treated like a dude on the jobsite, so I see a lot of this. But this is purely because I know how to navigate and work with men to make them feel comfortable. Lots of marriage counselling talk etc Gotta admit though, hearing my brother speak was enlightening - him talking about running through women, 'yeah bit of a phase, having fun, relationships are great but always like to explore'. He has always had a good balance of stable long term relationships with occasional periods of, in his words 'I need to slay slay slay for a bit'

@Joshe I'll echo this despite being a woman! Some unfortunate circumstances meant I had the greatest hand raising my younger brother (I was there for his birth also). He went out into the world having a strong secure relationship with me, and all the women of my family. It was a shock when he started to dip his whistle, seeing him return from nights out with 2, sometimes 3 women.... He is now in a committed healthy relationship with a woman who has a child to a previous marriage. But that phase where he went crazy sleeping with women was INSANE !

@Vali2003 Appreciate your very personal anecdote. Some deep work involved there

Maybe like stepping stones? Hit no self - then you take another step and BOOM - realization you are truth, pure consciousness, God, infinity - all that is inside you is actually outside... The two realizations are holding each others hands It points to God realization - but there is still work to do between the 'self illusion' step and 'God realization' to get there.

This would be a balanced, accurate generalisation imo Difficult to actually address the topic. I feel a 'general truth' is a way to assert a fixed essence or pattern to something inherently varied - almost an oxymoron: we are trying to squeeze infinite diversity into a tidy box and slap truth on it. So I think this balanced generalisation hits harder.

@theleelajoker yes I think you are a prime example of a masculine male who has good, healthy connection to women in their life that isn't a sexual based relationship! From what you have described I think the cock getting in the way is similar to emotions getting in the way for women.

Adding to the below that I think a blend of both genders perspectives on the other would be more accurate. We are often blind to our own behaviour - so mens perspective on women is an asset. But both need to be considered if you really want to dig at the truth of it. To clarify I was adding in that women's perspective on women cannot be discarded.