Natasha Tori Maru

I think this is true. My Dad sat me down for this chat when I was a teenager. He was brutally honest about the nature of men so I would be aware. I wonder how some women learn this without that sort of chat. Maybe through experiencing it, which must not feel nice to many women and girls.

Yes for sure. I already log all my dreams and journal daily. On the weekends I review entries and look for patterns in the day, and contrast them to dreams. Thanks for your post

I think what sets me apart in terms of atypical is that I have a very good understanding/integration/ability to flip flop between masculine and feminine polarities. Most of the issues with the men I had experience with BPD manifested as extreme anger and then lucid shame spirals in a loop. The most difficult aspect of this sort of personality type is assuring them that connection and acceptance is still present even when there is disagreement. Any perceived 'difference' in personality is seen as a rejection. Most of the issue is an unclear sense of self and boundaries - often leading sufferers to absorb their partners likes and dislikes in an attempt to connect. So when the sufferer was 'triggered' I would have to hold space and remain calm and hold boundaries until the main emotional pain had run its course. Doing this put me into a masculine frame and would de-energise my sexuality. Once connection was reassured I can let it all go - and this surrender would put me back into a feminine frame of expression which would bring back my desire for love, sex and connection. I do not think I view BPD as 'childish' in behaviour - I view it as a suffering individual in extreme pain. I try not to judge as there is so much stigma around personality disorders - especially cluster b. The ability to let things go is what puts me back into a feminine frame. I do not hold onto feelings needlessly. I express them in a healthy manner, and then I am done. I feel like a lot of women get trapped in their emotions and cannot surrender and then let go. And they can use their emotions and feelings to try to validate a point. But I think men and women do this equally, it just seems to me that it manifests in different ways. Men tend to get angry and use rationality to bypass emotion. Which can appear more logical, but is based in emotions and feelings. Women tend to express them all in larger bursts and variety. Maybe my experience with BPD men has shown me how both sexes do this? In the end the desire to win any sort of debate is just the aversion to the feeling of humiliation. Which makes me think perhaps this could be something @Emerald is trying to dissect by interocepting and explicating around her anger, the use of this forum, and the desire to come back. Again, just some speculation. Might not have any grounds at all. But the aversion to humiliation is what propels most of the heated arguments here on and on. And on... and on. Really, in terms of men showing emotion, for myself, the only thing that flatlines my sexual desire is fear of safety. If a man is expressing with violence my fear system shuts my entire emotional system off. And for myself - my emotions and emotional connection are they keys to my sexual desire. Perhaps the 'childish' nature of men's behaviour flatlining a woman's sexual desire is more relating to mothering; if a woman feels like a man is immature and she has to perform too much of a matronly mother role this can kill sexual desire. But the woman should be mature enough to be able to look after and care for her man when needed. And also not feel like she is being taken advantage of. I am not sure if I answered your questions really... I do find it interesting you have had BPD experience as well.

Pretty radical honesty - but it means both partners need to be really mature (emotionally + intellectually). It requires each partner being able to moderate their own emotional reaction in an effort to find a solution. Radical emotional acceptance. I have been with people that had some mental health issues (diagnosed) and it usually meant I had to compromise on some boundaries to ensure it worked. In particular borderline personality disorder - the suffering of the individual is so extreme I often had to appeal to emotion to maintain peace - and then move toward rationality once calm was established. It isn't personal with BPD sufferers. I am not a typical woman though - I don't mean to say, I am a special snowflake - more that I do not respond emotionally in ways society is more familiar with. I think I could just be a bit more mature as well.

This sounds like a unique dynamic. Atypical to my experience

Trivialism? Or is that too much disintegration/nuking of rationality. Trivialism into infinity?

Sum next level disfunction

Yep. One I faced many times: being attractive naturally attracts men who value that. And do not value who you are as a person. So all your worth to them is based on your attractiveness. So there is an enforced inherent clinging to the physical and maintaining it. And the burden of that attachment and attempt to maintain it is immense; women age. All flowers die and return to the earth. Body changes, skin changes. Resisting this is terrible. Men who do not think they are of equal attractiveness will filter themselves out and never approach due to their own inherent belief they are 'not attractive enough'. But the irony is - they stand more of a chance to see me for who I really am beyond the illusion of the body. Overall men and women have their own challenges - and ones suffering cannot be compared. I think it is a shame to try to minimise another's suffering. Man or woman.

We like the dream All your mods shredding each other to ribbons

Tone is conveyed with the language we choose. And the perpetuating responses signify various things. Neutrality can be conveyed. But if this is how you choose to see your actions at this time, it must be soothing in some way. We aren't conscious to what we are unconscious of

Wooooosh

@integral Do you think I judge for you making a sexist statement? Because I just view you as confused and there aren't any social ramifications from myself toward you. I don't think badly of you at all. I just see someone still learning.

I suppose there is an issue there with others motivations & intentions

@integral You might be reacting to a loaded context you have pre-existing regarding your interactions with @Emerald Reading per post again in isolation I think you may be reacting in an emotionally charged manner to just one line of the entire post. Thus missing the point. I do think it might be worth exploring why you feel so triggered at being called sexist in attitude. Usually when we are confident and assured there isn't even a need to defend.

They buy them simply to make more money past the point of need. Humans are greedy and that need makes capitalism poo. Humans are part of the system you cannot remove from it. Ideally arguing for capitalism isn't going to work because the whole point is the system isn't being used properly. We are looking at how it is applied here. And it is currently being leveraged to exploit those at the bottom. Have you noticed that many of the solutions you propose on the forum relate to 'start business and make money'? Just a theme I have noticed.

I would probably ask what happened to Carl, and where did he go? 🤪

@Miguel1 no, not a narcissist ❤️ I think you just see the other perspective due to your unique experience!

Looking closer at it the whole thing could be seen as a marketing platform by craftily selecting combatants who are doomed to fail. Validating the person in the hotseat

@LordFall who said I focused on the negative aspect of it? I used it as an example to back up a point. It isn't me who has an issue seeing negativity. In fact, I rather apply my discernment to it as an industry and business. I am quite successful as using the system. I understand it. And a healthy balanced view of the positive / negative will lead to more success than a polarised one. Your denial of the issues inherent to our current form of capitalism are almost verging on toxic positivity. The simple fact of it is - there is corruption. You can't try to wiggle your way around it. There is corruption.

I prompt you to assess the assumption made here, surrounding possible intent. I think it will be an area of growth for you

I didn't say anything like that. Just that both sexes do what you what you claim is attributed to women. Tis not isolated to sex. Nothing I said denied biological difference. Just that in this case there is miss-attribution.

Regarding the *actual* debate I feel like they didn't select opponents well. They could have chosen better IMO. A good skeptic that could steelman the shit.

How about yourself? I've run 2 business' - current one is commercial construction and quite successful. When you really run a business - you learn how corrupt the system is and how it runs on exploitation. You have to use that same system against itself to win, which just further fucks over those at the bottom. All the leverage points sit where weakness is, and almost every business needs to exploit them to survive. Construction is a fucken REAL business and one of the most corrupt. It's also the bedrock of humanity. There's nothing you can put forth that will change my mind after having worked this industry for half a decade.

You know... often in marketing and business they sit people down and showcase a product. Employees will be asked to comment - 'Yeah the cup is great, beautiful outlines. Great colour' And remark it is a great product. Top notch and they would buy it for sure. It is going to be a best seller. Then you slap on $10.00 and ask them to purchase the cup - suddenly all those singing praises can't put their money where their mouth is. What people say they want when dating or looking for a relationship is actually NOT usually what they end up 'selecting'. The wisdom here is not to let some of these dialogues/metrics limit you. People say one thing, and do something completely different.

I live alone and very very insular. I do not have much need for general conversation or socialising. But I have had a LOT of experience when younger. Like extroverted social / family mode up until around 35 years old. I just naturally grew out of the requirement for so much variety. I spend most of my free time in meditation, physical practice, nature, reading/research and drawing/art. But my work is quite counter to my insular and peaceful homelife. I work in a family owned business that requires extensive socialisation. Additionally, construction is fast paced and based on people. Problems, always problems. Stress everywhere. So while I live alone with my dog in a very hermit like life on my time, outside of that is 100% people. Not sure where I fit hermit-wise really. If I had the choice (no financial pressure) I would dedicate all my time to inner work, art & body being.