mandyjw

Thank you.

Which is hilarious in itself, I know. I thought that living in the present moment or "enlightenment" would be me happy or make my life flow, bring me fulfillment or make things as they should be. I thought I was making myself bulletproof in some way. But that was just another thought. I go back and forth like a ping pong ball between breathtaking realizations that there is no me to the same angry egoic outbursts that I wanted to get rid of so badly that it drove me to start this path in the first place. I feel like the volume of life is so turned up for me, the changing of the seasons and weather affects my moods dramatically, and I can hardly stand to be around other people for feeling their pain myself. For example if I talk with someone with a facial piercing I can feel the pain of that piercing at least in the background the entire time. Little things in nature bring me to tears frequently. Presence seems to be turning up the volume even more. I wanted to be able to function better not worse. I've gone full circle between the outbursts and spiritual realization, and I've done it again and again. I think I realize now that it's about surrendering and surrendering again. There's no getting somewhere, there's no getting something. There's no becoming someone who doesn't have depressive states or angry outbursts. There's no joy or despair but just experiences and what the mind decides to call them after the fact. There's no truth or correct standpoint and there's nothing really worth doing. My mind wants to take this more recent realization and turn it into a depressive sort of thing. But it's not that either. I want to stop wanting things and getting carried away with things and unless I keep telling myself "no there's nothing there in that for you", I'm not sure how to do that.

That's an interesting thought, I'm definitely bothered more by some than others. Piercings is just one example, it can be so many different ways I can sense suffering in someone, whether physical or emotional. I've tried and still believe in the practice of tonglen meditation. But I can only do it so long or I start to pass out, especially if it's a family member I'm with who is injured or in pain. I pass out whenever I get injured even slightly. I'm sure it is ego or past pain that's not worked through.

@Leo Gura You are right when you say that the emptiness is the beauty, joy and meaning but the nihilist is also right when he says it is despair and meaningless. Because to be empty and nothing it can't have any meaning or experience of good or bad assigned to it. Until this point I've always seen the beauty and joy part and now the other side won't be ignored any longer. I need to find the beauty in my grandmother's worsening dementia and death, I need to see the beauty in a mad over-consuming culture knowing I'm part of it, it's me. The first time I ever sat down to seriously meditate I closed my eyes and the sunlight just flooded my being. I had the realization that I am light, I am the light of the world as Jesus spoke about. But wait, that's half the story. I'm also the darkness. I IDENTIFIED with just the light and the beauty part. Fuck. I just want to be the light, please can't I just be the light and not the dark part? Maybe a little bit gray? No? Fuck. I have to learn how to hold both truths.

I just thought the whole thing was really funny.

@Shin Love it!

My mind is putting up one hell of a fight, when it thought it was unicorns and rainbows at the end it went along happily but now that it's fully seen that what's at the end is its own death it doesn't want to play along. It feels like I'm using it to get what I want, I want it to help me take care of my family and function day to day and even provide me with a comfortable life, but I'm denying it its promise of happiness in the future. I'm resisting total surrender because I'm switching from taking care of my life situation and there's no guarantee that I won't physically die. I've been told that my life situation will take care of itself. For example that beautiful verse in the Bible about the lilies clothing themselves, but I'm afraid it's another promise, another beautiful thought.

Eckhart Tolle and Kim Eng seem to do ok, although I think Kim is has challenges sometimes.

Because this forum is for people who are or think they are stage yellow, not turquoise.

There's a sense of peace that comes with a true desire, a sense that it could not be any other way. With egoic desire there's a projection of one's self in the future, or a sense that you are missing something and will be complete when you obtain it.

It's funny you shared that, I had that same thought about ghosts this morning after having a couple odd experiences in a cemetery. I live in a sort of ghost town, a town that's economy crashed in the late 1800's and has just a fraction of the previous population it did before so as you can imagine the old cemetery is a pretty cool place. But I am the ghost in cemetery. There are grave stones, old bones and dying plants, the cemetery is the world of form. I am the only ephemeral thing there, the thing that witnesses it, the thing with the power to imagine the people buried there as more than a pile of bones in the ground.

You don't have to accept anything but the present moment. Nor can you. Your honesty with yourself that you can't accept it is just a thought. if you could accept it, telling yourself you do would also only be thought. You can only ever accept your current experience. That said philosophically you may come to accept and see the truth in everything Leo said in that video. I was first introduced to this concept through a Thich Nhat Hanh quote from a poem. You can find that poem here. https://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/workingforpeace.html Buddhists tend to teach this same concept but in a much less direct, more compassionate way than Leo's presentation. I'm not saying either way is better, but I discovered the Buddhist teachings on this first and doubt I personally could have accepted it without them. I highly suggest you check out Pema Chodron on youtube.

If you can try to feel what it is to not feel, and go deeply into that experience then you have an opportunity for transformation more powerful than any psychedelic can offer you. It's a fascinating and exciting opportunity.

Experience it without calling it anything. Experience the sensation itself, not your mind's conception of what numbness feels like.

Ok that's good. Stop thinking of or calling that sensation numbness.

I'm a full time glass beadmaker, I started working with glass when I was 15, now it's hard to believe that was 15 years ago.

If enlightenment is the state in which you remove the illusion that you are separate from reality? Either all of reality is becoming enlightened or it isn't. There is nothing that one can do to get there other than enter the state of no self in this moment. When you have an experience in which you lose yourself in unconscious behavior, remembering that situation as a past event or judging the event as unconscious only means that you are still unconscious in the present. How can you make enlightenment a future goal without missing the entire experience of the thing, which can only happen now in this very moment? For this reason I don't believe that any method or knowledge about enlightenment is something one should or should not do. The state of no thought in the present moment is the only path the enlightenment. It's all there is. Everything else is an illusion of the egoic thinking mind. The concept of enlightenment, the idea of other people being or not being enlightened. Should we focus less on methods, knowledge and the physical forms of substances and more on the present moment? Doing those things can seem like the hard road or like we are doing something but are we doing them because being in the present moment and accepting the form of this very moment is the thing we would rather avoid? This is coming from someone who at this point in life cannot dedicate big chunks of time to meditation or using any substances. Rather than feeling like I'm missing out as I have in the past and still do occasionally, I've come to realize more and more that I can't stop this from happening, it's happening to me and to all of life. It's beautiful and it's perfect and there's nothing I have to "do" about it.

Don't make the numbness into a problem, accept that as your current reality.

I agree that a person has to have thoughts in order to maintain their form and existence, but form and existence itself are ultimately an illusion or part of the dream. It's interesting that you say "not exactly" because everything that can ever be said or written on this subject can never be exact. Most of my thoughts are no longer an issue. I believe that whatever unconsciousness I see or react to in another person exists in myself and I use that event to explore in what way I am still unconscious. So in the moment I feel animosity towards someone, I am my ego and they are a separate entity, and instead of looking back on that reaction and saying "I was unconscious, I am not enlightened", I see it as a prompt to become more myself.

I'm surprised running isn't talked about more here because it can really jump start meditation. I used to be a serious runner in high school but do it just for fun/meditation/time in nature now. I don't measure time or distance but usually run just 4 days a week for 20 minutes, usually on trails. I don't run enough to have to worry about fueling before or recovering after my runs so I just make sure I eat a healthy diet and run on an empty stomach. I used to carb load in high school, such a bad idea. lol

Leo, I just want to gently point out to you that you may have fallen prey to a common cognitive bias. You remind me of my mother when she discovered vitamin D and for months thought every single problem could be solved by someone, somewhere taking more vitamin D. http://hamiltonrich.com.au/man-with-a-hammer-syndrome/

Fascinating question. I really believe that the "cure" for autism may be mindfulness practice, but how you convince someone to try it when they are so tortured by their thoughts I don't know. It would have to be taught so that it was spoken in their own language, if that makes sense. My 5 year old son has mild autism so I expect to learn a lot more about this in the future. In his case he has an incredible ability to focus and great fine motor skills, but will not connect and make eye contact with other people. I don't know if he has less mindfulness than a typically developing child, or if it presents in different ways.

I like Leo's blunt approach but I also love Eckhart Tolle's. I can't imagine having had to do without either along the way. As a mom of young kids, the trips and the hard core meditation work aren't for me at this point in my life. Going through labor and having to figure out how to calmly deal with my autistic 3 year old's daily temper tantrums are way more bad ass than all the hardcore shit you men can come up with.

Another thought, maybe there is something to be said for trying to look past the wording? After all, all words are form, they are not the truth but can only point to the truth.

I just listened to Eckhart Tolle's talk on The Course of Miracles and he said it's not for everyone and if you really can't get past the wording it probably isn't for you. I think I'm going to do it soon, not sure yet. I'm really starting to feel like Leo is going in a completely different direction from the kind of enlightenment that Eckhart's teachings point to, the kind where enlightenment can be had now by simply dis-identifying from the mind rather than the notion that enlightenment is a kind of future paradise you've got to work your way to. If you've been brought up in an organized religion the dogma in that is hard to miss.