Karmadhi

Not at all, the point of naturals is that they do not need a lot of approaches to get good. They basically learn super fast and need little work. It comes off easy to them, just like it came easy to Mozzart to play the piano. I doubt any non pua that is not a celebretiy or politican has talked to more than 1000 girls in his lifetime. Lets say i go to a cafeee with 2-3 of my friends then walk around a bit. Or go watch a move or play bowling or something. Where during this process can i talk to new girls? Honestly. You need to make specific time for it or just approach randoms when you are by yourself going around places. That is super doable but it will require a lot of time and dedication. You go to a club for 3-4 hours twice a week and spam approach people. Not really something most people do. Idk why people like Leo and most puas really look down on social circle, it is imo really good to get girls. A lead from social circle is as solid as 30 leads from cold approach. The fact that most non-online dating happens from social circle shows a lot.

The whole issue on this discussion is that most guys are not willing to talk to 5000 girls and spend 2000 hours going out. They just are not. And do not confuse being social with going out for pick up. You can go out with friends and have fun, and talk to 0 new girls. When you create a solution that requires this crazy amount of work nobody will really even consider it and nothing will change. It is not scalable, maybe 0.1% will do it. The whole reason why people like John Anthony are so appealing is that he says he can get you results relatively fast compared to others. Personally i would willing to do 1000 approches but 5000-10.000 is crazy honestly. People got jobs, social lives, hobbies etc.

Most of them do though, they just dont use them for long periods of time like men. Most women i know have used them at some point, even smart intellectual shy girls.

I have done that. I met once a 4/10 girl from Tinder and she had more matches and likes than me 9/10 friend who did modeling. Online dating for girls gives them crazy volume. I have met only 1 person from there. The point is everyone uses them which gives them unrealistic expectations. That girl you meet on your class also uses or has used online dating. Which is why i intend to start daygame, gives you better girls than club regularls. Considering you do not have to approach nor lead being shy as a girl is not really that big of an issue. Yes well 22 years of doing what you said gave me shit. I only started seeing some results when i actively went for it instead of "letting it go naturally". What happened naturally is that i would meet a girl, had 0 clue what to do and got friendzoned. That was "natural" for me. Learning to flirt, be playful, make jokes and lead is the opposite of natural and it took crazy effort from me. Now it takes way less due to practice but unless i conscioussly tried to improve and change it i would probably never been on any dates yet. I have said it many times and will repeat it here. Being social and good with making friends and being good with girls are 2 totally different things. You can be social guy that has a lot of cool friends (guys and girls) and still suck with girls. Because you do not need to learn how to be playful,flirt,lead or be assertive to make friends. You do need it to get girls though. For someone like me these things had to be developed and it was really hard. I am quite happy with my progress the last few months though. Lets stay positive for the future

@Preety_India Those are bit harder to find because they are less social and do not frequent social places much. Only way to meet them is through friend of friend (really luck oriented) or daygame them (could work i guess). Most girls i went on dates with were quite social girls but all of them used online dating at some point and had relatively highish standards (they went out with me because they found me nice looking and cool/interesting aka good first impression). I had to work quite a bit on myself to be able to get the dates in the first place. Which shows how demanding girls can be. I consider myself around a 6/10 looks wise and i feel like i am a LOT more tolerant than a 6/10 looking girl regarding standards and shit. Which is why i say what i say. I would be quite happy with a 6/10 looking girl though if we vibed and shit, i am not that picky looks wise. Especially for non serious shit.

@Leo Gura I am not talking about wings i am talking about normal life. Experienced wingmen are outliers, anomalies, trained warriors, they are not the norm. If you talk to 2000 girls of course you will manage to get some of them. I am talking about your university, your circle of friends, your workplace or your mall. Everyday places basically. Plus you know you can be short, asian, black etc and still be super good looking. Zac Efron is like 5 7 or something (just saying). What i get from what you are saying is that most not good looking guys are clueless about game so girls are forced to go for the more attractive guys, except the few outliers that do have good game and break this situation. @Preety_India Juding from your picture you are not from my generation. Girls expectations from my generation have gone crazy, online dating and instagram culture has played a big role in that. Not just in looks but also in lifestyle. Plus you are in this forum, i cannot take you as the "normal" girl. Not just you, but any girl here. You are too actualized and consciouss to be taken as the norm.

@Preety_India Well they judge me super harshly on 10000 other things so yes it is unfair to be judged on looks also. I give 0 shits about a girls confidence, charisma or how "needy" she is. However girls judge you super harshly on those things. If i was not judged on those things i would not mind being judged only on looks.

@Leo Gura They say females are hypergamous because they usually lock 1 guy and stick with him compared to the guy just fucking many women and not seriously committing to just 1. Biologically females tend to be more picky because of this system where if their pick is bad she and the child are fucked versus the guy who can fuck 1 "bad" pick out of 15 and it is still okay for him. Hence females tend to be naturally more picky due to simple biology and evolution. I personally think this makes sense tbh, you have said yourself that females and males have totally different dynamics. Now whether red pill abuses this for their own agenda is another issue totally, i cannot say about that much.

I have read a lot of red pill ideology and even though a lot of it is super toxic there is 1 point which i partially agree with them on. Due as you said to survival being easier, females know can pick who they want to date. Females in general tend to want to date guys whose value in her eyes is higher than hers. What this creates is a situation where females want the top guys and do not want to settle for anything below them. From a individualistic point of view this is really good because if you raise your value and work on yourself you can get the whole "pie" as to say. You can get good results. However from a society point of view this creates a situation where like 25-30% of bottom guys do not get anything, it is quite capitalistic. The top 10-20 percent of guys get the whole pie, the bottom 30 percent gets close to nothing. Traditional marriage was an institution created to give everyone some chance of finding someone. Love communism you can call it. Now with that being slowly gone, you have this situation. The issue with society level stuff is that you cannot use the same solutions as individualistic situations. You cannot tell all guys to work on themselves because value itself is relative to others. It is not absolute. So no matter how much they work they will still struggle compared to the top guys. A society where all men have closely to same "value" is impossible. That is what the Red pill preaches when they complain about dissolve of marriage. What i wrote is my interpretation of what the red pill has said, it is not my own "invetion". I am just parroting them in a more nuanced and non-hateful way. I would love your thoughts on this Leo.

I would rather get stung by a bullet ant than to go through that kind of true rejection again

@zazen Thank you. I am really fit because i work out regularly but short hehe. I look muscular though at least. I kinda agree with you here. To be honest i have noticed that the girls i have enjoyed the most talking to do not really go to clubs much. Sure they go couple times a year but that's it. So if you go to clubs a lot you can definetly find such girls but you need massive volume. Usually girls that club regularly even if hot i do not vibe with at all. I am an introvert so i enjoy more chilled introverted girls and club regularls are usually not like that. I am doing that. I wrote above a list of things i do to improve. I am trying to and made big progress with being less logical and more playful/funny. Still a bit to go. Thank you. It is a part of life i have yet to experience, the whole dating/relationship thingy.

@hyruga Yes i have my strenghts for sure. But my strenghts are not related to me getting laid. Deep thinking, good understanding of reality for my age (im like 23), not being ideological or dogmatic, decent emotional mastery and high integrity and honesty (again for my age please dont compare me to gurus haha). These things are nice and shit but they do not get you laid ;(

Stop being so picky for God's sake. You re all like spoiled Gordon Ramsays that need triple A food or you spit it on the ground. You think most guys would not want to fuck a supermodel girl but settle for something less because it is better than nothing?

@Leo Gura I will teach him not to touch big tits if the girl with those tits is a scumbag gold digger no worries. This shit goes both ways. Looking and touching tits are different things I dont care about sleeping with dozens of hot girls anyway so i doubt i will ever be corrupted, i will quite consciouss about it mostly thanks to your work Yes!!!!!!!

@Leo Gura It matters to me more than you think, to the point where it is hard for me to get laid because i actually care about the girl's agenda instead of just pushing my own. A huge part of learning to get better with girls for me is to turn off this and just focus on results. Honesty and empathy does not get you laid much you know, especially if you are not some super handsome naturally cool guy. You did the same i am pretty sure. I am not advocating being a scumbag or liar ofc. If i ever have a daughter i will teach her well not to fuck guy's just because they are "fun" but to actually screen well for quality of character. It is just foolish girls that he preys on. I doubt any of the girls on this forumn would go home with him. Yes, attraction may not be a choice but going home with someone is. Learn to ignore it if you know something is off just like i ignore eating junk food even though i crave it. High consciousness people operate with wisdom despite what they crave.

@Leo Gura I dont understand why that matters so much when it comes to learning game. It is not like you are asking him for relationship advice or anything. Attraction is attraction. If girls had 2 cents about picking right guys John would probably still be a virgin.

I hate that part of him too, i just dont watch those stuff or just watch it for fun, not taking it seriously. Yes that is what i said. He saw you when you were still in your early phase. May i ask what you mean by hard case newbie? What makes one as such? You use the term a lot.

I did not. The comments about him were not made by me at all. I just made a comment for this clownfest to stop

I saw right now the interview part where he talked about you. He said you were a nice guy but bad at pickup, too intense and creeped girls out. I mean that is his opinion, nothing "bad" per say. Maybe he watched you game at the beginning when you were actually bad or his standards for good are very high and he calls 99.9% "bad". I thought he dissed you but the way he talked about you had no hate nor content like he usually does. Probably becuase you do not claim to be a dating coach unlike others.

How about just learning from John Anthony how to lead and how to handle objections which he is quite good at and ignore the toxic parts? No need to adopt someone's teachings fully. Just take what they are good at, adopt it in a non toxic way and use it to grow yourself.

How about using Tyler for inner game and John for outter game? I have seen videos of both and tbh Tyler inner game stuff is amazing and John Anthony outter game tacticts are spot on. He is the best i have seen when it comes to dealing with logistics which is really important! Some people call John a sociopath but why does that even matter honestly? If his shit works then just use it and stop crying.

@Leo GuraSome of the things i have been actively doing for the last 2 years or so. Working out regularly Meditation regularly for 15-20 mins every day Watching your videos alongisde other channels that deal with self improvment from orange to yellow (too early for turquoise stuff) Working on my studies aka towards my career Trying to be social and talking to people, trying to go on dates, improving small talk and comfort on social situations etc Developing my playfulness, flirting, sense of humour Becoming more positive, understanding and non-judgmental Letting go of anger or hatred. Trying to improve my confidence, self-esteem and self love Learning about things that interest me Anything else i could add? Towards raising value.

@Medhansh I have that also @tashadwoodfall You just feel insecure i guess.

@Nahm I did not understand your comment

@Ulax Thank you, i will try. Appreciate the kind words. I have already done plenty of hard shit in my life though. But i do see your point Well yes i agree but there is some objectivity to it though. If a guy looks like a male model i cannot compete with that. Simple. I am present when i talk to girls, it is just in between that makes me feel bad.