Karmadhi

I really struggle with this, no matter how much i develop my sense of humour, how expressive i become, how much i laugh and smile, girls always tell me that they find me serious and quiet (but fun). God help me understand what the fuck a fun, serious person even means. I can make a girl laugh for 20 minutes straight and still she will think i am somewhat serious and quiet person. I think it because i am a low energy person and i feel punished for it.

IQ has nothing to do with wisdom. What is important to live a good life is wisdom, not IQ. Plus tbh even for the more shallow materialistic type of Orange success, EQ and social skills matter WAY MORE than IQ. I would say wisdom and EQ both outmatch IQ by a mile. Funny thing is that if your EQ and wisdom are well-developed, people will automatically assume you are smart. Happens to me all the time. I never took an IQ test and never plan to, however i think i might be slightly above average but nothing crazy (I scored around 1200 on the SAT). However, because my EQ and wisdom are well developed for someone my age (im 23), people automaically tell me stuff like you are smart etc. It is quite funny, almost like good marketing So yeah, do not worry about this bullshit. Focus on improving your social skills, meditate, read books and develop EQ. IQ obession fundamentally is caused by lazy people who do not want to do any work to improve and grow themselves because IQ is mostly set in stone and cannot be changed. Ironically usually Incels that obsesses about facial aesthetics also tend to focus about IQ a lot. Why? Because they have a deterministic attitude towards everything in life. Do not become such a person.

How is this related to females hating neediness though? Are avoidant men more attracted, at least short-term?

I have noticed that Leo always makes the assumption that we are going for proper hot girls (8/10 in looks or higher) and everything he says is quite correct in that case, especially if you are not a famous or super good looking guy (by default, most of us will not be). However, most guys do not really care about that. Leo says it himself that most guys, even his wings have quite low standards and at the same time assumes we are going for proper hot girls. Quite paradoxical imo. There is nothing wrong per say for wanting a proper hot girl nor is there anything wrong with being content with a decent looking girl. Just depends on personal goals. Just like there is nothing wrong with just wanting to be slightly muscular versus wanting to be on the top 10 percent physique wise. Imagine if you came up to me asking me how to be in good shape, and i tell you "you need to train 4 times per week for 10 years and eat a perfectly clean diet". Yes, if you want to look like a great god then yes. However i asked you how to be on decent shape, not how to be a greek god. Hope you get the logic. Same logic for everything in life, everyone has different standards and goals. Considering that most of these threads and comments are made by guys that struggle with this area of their life, i doubt they really want 8s and shit, so the advice should be tailored for a more "normie" girl.

What is your solution then? The number of incels is growing in a scary rate. And it is definetly not as easy as "just talk to girls" as Leo and others say. I know social guys with good social skills and good circle of friends (both guys and girls) that really struggle with girls. Basically same results as an incel with the opposite sex. Spamm approaching girls as they do in pick up wont work either, especially if scaled in a big degree. I think the only other solution is to teach men how to actually be men instead of this "be nice and kind" bs that feminism teaches them these days. Basically like men were in the old days, strong, dominant, assertive and just went for what they wanted (without turning into a devil ofc). So if values like assertivness, dominance, boldness etc were not demonized as they are these days, but encouraged in a healthy way, it would greatly benefit men (proper integration of stage red). Also, people could stop having these ridicioulous standards of having to sleep with 10/10s and learn to be content with an average looking girl, especially if they cannot really get a hot one for whatever reason. You are not a loser if you date a meh looking girl!. Lastly, removing this lookism bullshit which has infected young men. I doubt men in the 1800s went around giving a shit about how they looked to this obsessive degree that young men do these days. These things should fix it imo.

Well i am not a creative person nor have interest in it to make it a career. So what goods does my introversion give me? Yes, i am introspective, have a natural curiousity and relatively deep thinking about reality and harder to fall into group thinking and ideology than people around me. It does not give me what i want though.

All nice in theory but they are too conceptual. The real tangible results are gained through extroversion: girls, friends, good jobs, status, power, money, etc. An introvert will theorize it, the extrovert will just go and take it. You dont need scientific evidence for common sense.

If he is greedy yes. I advocate people learning to be happy with what they got. If u want a 9/10 go get them in real life. The point of online dating is to make people not starve.

@something_else Yes exactly this and to remove the horrible stigma they have. Very important! Considering 50 percent of all relationships are formed online, removing online stuff as an option would greatly cause people to be more social in order to get their sexual and intimacy needs met. Hard to do when dating is done online mostly. Either ban the apps or regulate them in a way where everyone gets results based on their level instead of 15 percent of guys getting all the girls. Would it not be cool if a 5/10 guy could match with a 5/10 girl in these apps?

If society gave the same care and attention to incels that they do to MeTOO cases and feminists, this issue would be solved quite fast. There is a huge biased on the west against incels. Disgusting imo, they need help more than anyone else. The minimum society can do is to see them as people that need help instead of judging them and calling them losers, terrorists etc. I am talking here about most incels, not the radical ones that are shoot up schools. And this is not easily solved by pick up, it does not scale well. If there is 1 thing i would do would be to ban or at least somewhat regulate dating apps and websites, i feel like they greatly influence incel growth.

Something that bothers me sometimes though is that when i am out and about i see usually on the streets or on social media, physically attractive girls with physically attractive guys. It is often the same attractivness level (give or take). It is rare for me to see an unattractive guy with an attractive girls. I am talking here about proper couples, not stuff that happens in clubs. So proper girlfriend basically. I know it is a limiting belief but it makes me feel a bit bad ngl.

Could also be lack of chemistry. It happens, which is why i would reccomend to get a feel for the girl before you go out with her. If you meet her before hand in another setting talk to her for at least 10 minutes before you decide to even ask her out. You should get a general feeling if you have chemistry with her or not. Experience of talking to a lot of girls helps you developing that feeling if you do not have it naturally. But if this happens constantly then it is a issue of being too platonic. I used to have this and still do sometimes but i am getting much better at it. What really helps as Leo said is to get in touch with your desire for her and feel 0 shame about it. Your insecurities will be the biggest hinderance here. Persoanlly i would just go on some dates with girls you are not really attracted to much just to handle the basic kino escalation and kissing. Trust me if you do it a few times it will get A LOT easier and natural. Then you can proceed with more attractive girls that you would actually be into. The issue of trying to escalate with girls you are really into is that you will lack the experience of escalating and it will be quite hard becuase you do not want to mess it up. If you are not into the girl much and the process becomes much easier. Then that experience transfers to the girls you like. That is what happened to me.

I am not talking "advices" from them. I just find it weird. Why would not they say they like confidence but they say they like looks? 0 reason for it. Sometimes when i am with girls and they mention hot guys i legit tell myself that they re full of shit and do not know what they are talking about.

Most of the times the guy would be objectivelly good looking when they say "he is so hot". Guys you would easily tell.

@Leo Gura From my experience that is true however there is 1 thing that always baffles me. Whenever you hear females talk about guys that they find attractive, they usually say stuff that relates to their looks. I almost never hear girls saying to others stuff like: "He is so confident so i find him attractive". It is always something physical. Why this imbalance between what they are attracted to and what they talk about ?

Most of my friends have slept with basically the same number of girls they have been in relationships with. How is that possible? I am always talking about normal typical dating, not pick up. So not the paradigm where you do pick up in clubs and talk with a lot of girls and do one night lays and stuff. I am talking about "normie" dating which is like 95 percent of all dating. It would be unfair to talk pick up dating which is a very small percentage of all dating.

What do you want out of this pick up stuff? What is your goal? If it is sex with a lot of girls or even to casually date a lot of girls then avoid attaching to this one. If you want 1 great girl then keep her but i would also talk to others just to avoid screwing up with this one until it is clear u guys can be exclusive.

Yes but sex is not what i really want. I could use it as a tool to get to what i want, but i am not needy for sex. The mechanics are the same as if i was needy for sex? By results here it would mean a lot of girls wanting me to be their bf, if i gotta fuck them first then so be it.

How do you deal with love neediness rather than sex neediness. I do not care about sex much but i care a lot about a girl geniounly wanted to be with me, feeling desired, wanted etc.

Hello guys I have noticed a trend in myself that i would like to correct. Some background information: I tend to have the anxious attachment style (with a bit of secure but still the anxious has more weight), i would be around stage orange 2/3 and 1/3 green and on the achiever stage of the ego development with some pluralist elements on them. My personality is ISTJ/INFJ (not sure). I am naturally introverted but i have done A LOT of socializing on the last 8 years or so and improvement my social skills massively. I am very social but bit low energy, i still smile, make jokes, laugh etc so i am not serious per say. I am 23 years old and male. So the trend i notice is that whenever i get interested in a girl, especially a girl that i find potential in, i tend to get attached a bit fast. This becomes even more prevelant if the girl is also somewhat interested and i see that it could lead to something. I have little interests in casual hookups and even if i try to fuck a girl i do it with the end goal in mind of keeping her around. Sex is just the next step towards that. The isse of course with this attachement is not only that is basically unhealthy but it also hurts your chances with the girls a lot. I have being treated quite badly by these girls, treated like i did not exist and gotten barely any respect. It felt horrible every time. I do not want to feel like that anymore. How do i become more detached? Especially with girls i percieve to be great girls, rare girls that i do not meet often. By a great girl i mostly talk about personality. I find it much easier to find physically attractive girls (my physical standards are quite low naturally) compared to a girl with a personality that i really vibe with and like. I have noticed that the girls i did the best with were girls i barely cared about, those were the girls that were most attracted to me. I would like this to happen with girls i also like and am into a lot (both physically and emotionally). The weird thing is that even if i percieve a girl around my "level" ( i hate using that word, it is so orange but i have to in order to express myself clearly here), then i still get attached. It is not just with girls i percieve about myself like Leo often says "stealing sexual value" which is very true. I also feel it with girls that are around my percieved "level". This i find a bit weird. Maybe i am a bit arrogant and automatically percieve a girl to be great if i see her at my level since i subconsciously percieve myself to be great? Some of the things that make a girl great in my eyes are her feminine energy, sense of humour, swetness, knowledge, natural curiousity, interest in self development, spirituality, ambition, wisdom, positivity, integrity etc. I know some of you guys will tell me to date multiple girls at once. However there are 2 issues with that. First it is quite hard to find the time to date AND get those dates in the first place. Even if i magically got 3 dates a week, i just dont have the time for it. I am very busy with other things at the moment, i just want a nice girl in my life and nothing more than that. I barely care about sleeping with hot girls or having harems. Second, even if i had a rotation of girls i dated, i would just focus on that one girl of the rotation that i vibed with the most and barely care about the others. In the end i would not get what i really wanted anyway. So what practices, mindsets, exercises etc would you guys suggest me in order to basically be detached in this whole process. Detached in a healthy way ofc, not just closing your heart and becoming a robot. Thank you

I wanna be like my detached friends. They got basically not that much experience but they just dont care. I want to be like that. Makes life much easier. Any sources to learn that except Leo's video on it? I usually get attached with girls i percieve to be great, those are really really hard to find. I do not mind being alone at all. However i want to experience all of life and this domain is a big part of it. I do have those, no worries. Friends too!

This is exactly what i wanted to know. How to work on it internally. Any advice for it?

Most guys inherintely dont give a fuck, they dont do this. However lets assume im different and i need to do it. Issue is that i tend to get attached to great girls, not to girls in general. Most girls i dont care much tbh. So the solution is to try with girls i really like and get better in time? Where can i find such an abudance of high quality girls? What advice would you give me? I dont show it externally, it is internal especially after we meet. During the meeting i am not really attached, it is after that you start getting attached.

@Gili Trawangan Are you a girl? Look i did that and it did not work. All i got is a bunch of friendszones. Being flirty and shit came so not naturally to me i had to basically change a lot to make it more natural. Actually i was not interested in girls for 21 years and yes nothing happened to me suprise suprise!!!! All players see it this way, only girls dont. Which is why i asked u if u re a girl. Also where am i supposed to find a shit lot of girls? I dont get harassed on social media by girls like girs do with guys. Im nothing special looking either so my female attention is quite low.

Ok a few more things i should have added: I kinda ignored dating for the first 21 years of my life and made most of my progress in the last 2 years or so. I have plenty of friends (both guys and girls), i workout regularly (i am in pretty good shape), i have things i enjoy doing like hobbies etc. I tend to do self development (meditating every day, reading books, watching Leo's and other youtubers videos, introspecting) and overall i would say my life is pretty well put together if i ignore the female aspects. I also am striving on starting working so i do have a clear purpose and goal in my mind right now and motivated towards it. However in order to fully actualize myself i need to fill this gap on my maslow hierarchy of needs otherwise it will be a problem.