Karmadhi

I think the fundamental issue is that she was not that into me. If a girl is into you then you will not get friendzoned and can get away with a lot of shit, talking from personal experience here. Solution: Go out with girls that are into you properly .

From my experience that is not the case. All the chances i ve had were because the girls found my good looking. Which will happen via massive volume, at least 1/50 girls will find you handsome. However, it is a really low number to count on and therefore some skill is needed. The skill is not just being social and talking to them as a normal person but it is the sexual frame and flirtation and even then u can still get friendzoned. I got friendzoned even after making out with a girl on a fucking date. Tough luck

If it only was that easy man. The fundamental reason is because they dont see me sexually. Holding a normal conversation does not make a girl want to fuck you. I have shared here personal dating experiences and you just called it "bad luck". So it is not that i suck at having normal convos with people. I just get friendzoned a lot even if i make moves, i dont give that player vibe thats my biggest issue. Even when i try to be one it comes off not congruent, like a puppy barking loud trying to act like a pitbull.

1000 seems like overkill to me. 100-200 should do it (200-400 individual nights out).

Last weekend i went out both on friday and saturday. So yeah idk what ur talking about

The fact that the most toxic and selfish people get laid the most shows clearly that attraction requires some degree of toxicity and selfishness.

I am always talking about getting a girl to fall for you. Not how to keep a girl in a relationship after she has fallen for you. And i am not talking about pick up kind of attraction which happens within 60 minites as you say it but more generally which includes other venues. Yes, for relationships being loving and stuff is what works.

Actually i did not want to believe it until reality forced me after countless examples and self denials from my part. To me a developed person is empathetic, caring and kind. Can you be attractive even if you dont create drama and treat girls well and with respect? Issue is most guys i know do these things in a very toxic way. Ghosting a girl randomly to me is toxic. Becoming cold for no reason and creating conflict out of nowhere is also toxic to me. Can you be fun without being toxic like this?

You yourself say girls are attracted to detached guys that do not care about them. How is removing all empathy and kindness helping you to be a more selfless loving person? To me being good with girls and being a good loving selfless person are opposites. The only solution to me at least, is to become high value to the point where a girl wont loose attraction for you even if you treat her well and care about her. Yes, if a girl finds you high value you can get away with all sorts of shit (personal experience ). Aka social value.

@Federico del pueblo omg that was a typo lol. Should have been girls, my mistake

How do you manage to get hot girls then? You re probably more spiritual than 99.99% of the people that do pick up or males your age in general and still you posted pics of a hot girl you slept with. Pretty sure u were spiritual even in your early pua days, at least compared to the average person that is not spiritual much in western countries.

@Leo Gura I am 23 years old you expect me to be that selfless? Honestly though, some advice on how to balance these two things would be appreciated, i am sure you had the same issues when you started this stuff. If i just wanted to get what i wanted i would just be a devil and problem solved. However, i am trying to avoid that and be more loving and selfless while having my needs met. I think it is not asking much to have a balance on this stuff.

I get attracted to guys that hit my biological attraction switches, so do you. A guy ignoring you and not being interested in you is not an attraction switch, is just nothing. You probably got attracted to something else than him not being into you.

Plenty of guys hitting all your attraction triggers that would be into you. You are just making excuses for continuing to date people u shouldnt. So you re telling me there are no funny, confident, cute, smart guys out there that are into you that do call you back? Not 1?

Like all girls out there, not suprised at all. Humans want what they cannot have, not what is best for them. I expect people on this forum to be a bit wiser than this though.

That will depend on what is more natural for you. For some people going on a saturday walk might be more "natural" and during that walk they can do a daygame session. They are technically living their life naturally and stumble on a bunch of girls. For another person it can be a night out with friends for fun and they stumble on a bunch of girls. You can make the arguments that going on a club just to pick up girls is also "needy". Keep in mind a lot of people, including me and Leo do not really enjoy clubs per say. If i go in a club just for fun it will not be more than once every 2-3 months. Any extra time i go it will be for pickup alone. I dont enjoy clubs as a place for socializing. I basically have to go out of my way to go to a club is what i am trying to say. For some people clubbing is part of their social life and they would go there often even if they had no intention of pickup. For them great. I am not like that though. If you are then great for you. I do agree that going out on a club or busy street/mall JUST for pickup is quite needy but this is how you get good. It sucks. Which is why a lot of guys complain about girls having it easy. They dont have to do shit.

You seem to project a lot regarding daygame. Daygame and nightgame both work and are legit depending on your personality and style. Since you are talking about creepyness, yes it is true that it is easier to creep girls during daygame but does not mean you cannot talk to them. What matters is where YOU FEEL more comfortable. Personally i am 10x more likely to creep out a girl during nightgame than daygame simply because nightgame environements make me so uncomfortable that i will become creepy. No matter how much i expose myself to them, i always feel like i am a shadow socially of what i can be in other settings. So in MY case, daygame is a better option. For you might be different, everyone is different. But saying this is creepy and this is not is a very simplyfied view on it. Plenty of guys kill it with daygame, i know some of them. Just like i know others that kill it with nightgame. What is the trend i have noticed? Everyone games in the environement they feel most natural and comfortable at. AG Hayden and Natural lifestyles are great daygame channels, John Anthony lifestyle and RSD are great nightgame channels. I do not see any of them being creepy .

The fundamental difference between rejection for guys and girls is the fact that guys go through a lot more of it due to the fact that they are usually pursuers. Also i have noticed girls usually get rejected from the top guys while guys get rejected by ALL girls. The average girl has 10x more power in the dating market than the average guy, if a guy is not a top guy he is kinda fucked and begging for scraps.

These days men have become equally or close to as insecure as women about their physical appearance. The whole incel and even MGTOW movement is pure proof of that. Just google "how much do looks matter" and you will see 90% of the stuff that comes up is about guys. We live today in the Tinder/instagram/online era where dating happens more and more online hence the increase of importance of physical attractivness of guys. And it will get more and more important as people use online shit more and more regarding dating and even judging their value (instagram for eg). Also does not help when women talk about looks in guys 24/7 (especially young ones), regarding what they care about. Even if it is not true hearing it every day 24/7 takes a toll on your self-esteem.

Hey guys, so i have done some nightgame recently and even though it has potential i do not really see myself in it. I feel like my social skills are greatly reduced and in general it is not a very enjoyable experience. From the loud music, to the great importance of physicality, to dealing with friends and girls never solo i would like to find some new avenues to meet girls. Interesting enough, i thought girls were going to be super receptive in night game but apparently they always tend to stick with their groupie and it is not easy at all to get convos started (not easier than it would be in a gym or park for example). This suprised me a bit. Just some information about myself for those that do not know me. -I am a natural introvert with decent social skills. I excel in 1 on 1 communication with a chill, laid back atmosphere around it. -I am not a big fan of heavy physicality from the start, i prefer to use my verbals rather than my physicality at the beginning. -My natural standards for looks are not that high. Every time im out and about (i have an active lifestyle), i see at least 4-5 girls worth approaching. So the situation that Leo describes where he has to walk for a few hours to find 3-4 girls worth approaching does not apply to me. - I want to get better and have the ability to get a girl if i want to as long as i am wiling to work for it. So with these charactersistics, which place would you reccomend? I assume daygame would be the answer, but where exactly? Where does daygame work best?

Because people there are in groups and it is super weird and not socially acceptable to just join in. It annoys people, especially if there are girls and guys there. Imagine you go out with your cirlce of friends to have a good time and some random guy wants to join you. If there are 2 girls for example it can work great if you are with another guy but that requires you to have a wing. You cannot rely on having a wing 2 times every week. In clubs you can do this, in bars not. At least where i live these are the social conventions. I do not mind silent environement, i just mind the horrible stigma it has. It makes me feel like i am being weird, desperate etc. It goes against my identity as a "normal" guy according to society standards. I have definetly have done that by going to social events by myself and forcing myself to talk to people. I love meeting people through social events, it is by far the best way to meet people imo because everyone there is super friendly, it is a chill enviroenemtn and not weird. However, there are not enough of them unfortunately. I agree with that totally, i have personally made massive imporvements in socializing.

Personally i do not think it is creepy per say if done right, society sees it as creepy and conditiones you 24/7 to think it is desperate, creepy and weird. You are basically going against all social norms which ofc are fake in an absolute sense but you feel them in the relative survival sense. How do you condition yourself not to care about society norms?

So i have watched some of his content and noticed that he says that most guys can get good with girls much faster than RSD or other companies claim. He says his students get good with girls super fast, they dont need 2000 approaches because they are given an optimized results-proof system. Personally i find his logistics advice to be the best in the internet but the claims seem a bit far feched to me. Like virgins getting 5 lays within the first 8 weeks of using his programs. John himself has probably legit game and his gfs are super hot but im unsure about the claims when it comes to his students results. Would like to hear your opinion about this. Here attached is the video (sceeenshot since i am on my phone atm) of the video where he makes the claims

@Leo Gura It is just that daygame and hitting on girls randomly on the street has a horrible connotation because mostly really creepy people do it and it is considered weird by society's standards. This really holds me back when it comes to doing it. Also a lot of girls when by themselves wear headsets and seem unapproachable af in general. I am talking mostly about the street here. In a park for eg it is different. What about libararies? They have a lot of nice girls there but it is usually a quieter environements, people are busy studying. You ever did approaches there?

@Raze His response