Karmadhi

Do you also have teary eyes when you see 12.000 dead? Curious Where is the special status for 80 year old grandmothers detained in Israel as "terrorists"? There were cases of that. They are as innocent as those hostages. Israel started this war by their wrong policies and not giving Palestinians equal rights. Plenty of Israelis including famous intellectuals have given their concerns over Israel policies. Do you expect people to be oppressed indefinitely and not revolt? You are basically going against all International human rights organizations that have criticized Israel's policies countless times. And I am talking about their policies before this recent war began. I do agree it is paranoia but we speak like this because we see the West and NATO as good. That is the issue. We do not see them as a threat. Try to see NATO as a threat and the invasion would make more sense. It is not that I support what Russia did. I was against it since day 1. But I do not see it any less "ethical" than USA invasion of Cuba, Libya or Iraq. So I cannot demonize Russia more than USA. But I dislike Russia, do not think I am a pro Russian guy. Not at all. They do tons of devilry. Yet so does USA. There are endless endless cases of war crimes which can be avoided. Snipers shooting close to 30 civilians in recent days being one of them. Shooting doctors working in hospitals, civilians inside cars etc. You can defeat Hamas and not do these atrocities. They are clearly fueled by hate not military logic. Hitler wanted to raze Poland to the ground, make Warsaw nothing more than a small town with a train station and kill 80% of polish population. Generalplan Ost - Wikipedia Russia does not want to do any of those things. It just wants Ukraine to be another Belarus. That is wrong but different from pure genocide like Germany did against Poland. The hatred Israelis have towards Palestinians in Gaza is far greater than Russian towards Russians in Ukraine. If you actually see the tactics used are quite similar. Unfortunately they seem to kill far far more in Gaza due to density and lack of air defense/shelters in Gaza. But the actual tactics are basically the same. I can name them if you want but it would be a long list. It also bombs areas considered "safe". What is your excuse for that? If Gaza is razed to the ground in the end what matters? You do realize that is done simply for people like you to say "See Israel is not that bad". You think they actually care about civilians there? You know they now block humanitarian aid when Gaza is starving? Biden even said it in live tv he had to convice BiBi to allow humanitarian aid. And all considered, if Russia is so ruthless how come the death toll in Ukraine given the time frame and population is relatively low? I mean Serbia killed like 3x more civilians in Bosnia in the same time frame and Bosnia had 20x less people. Same in the Syrian war. Chechen war was also far more brutal for civilians. Honestly I would expect at least 100.000 civilian deaths in Ukraine at this point but it is around 11.000. Max 20.000. While military deaths are close to 100.000 now. In Syria or Bosnia it was a 50 50 ratio between soldier and civilians. Here it is like 5 to 10 times more soldiers.

Firstly Hamas did give you a peace offer and you get all the hostages back but Bibi refused it. So lets not pretend that Israel wants peace at the moment. Hamas gives ‘positive’ reply to proposal for hostage release deal - The Washington Post Palestine definitely has caused pain and suffering to Israelis. However Israel has caused far far more pain and trauma to Palestinians. I did not see Palestinians take land and kick out Israelis. The death toll, especially civilian is always 20x more on Palestinian side. Not to mention destruction. So scale matters here. Issue with you Pro Israelis is that you downplay Palestinian suffering while overhyping Israeli suffering. Issue is that simple facts reject that reality. Civilian death toll, land ownership via illegal settlements and material destruction are literal things you can see with your own eyes. Give me 1 reason why 1 day people in the West Bank should not gather and kick out and burn all the illegal settlements in there for example. Funny thing if they did that then they would be labeled terrorists in your eyes. And everyone outside Israel supporting it would be labeled anti Semetic and a Jew hater. See how this works. Fundamental issue here I noticed when I saw some old interviews with Nafati Bennet and other Israelis is that they claim all the land there is theirs and their "proof" is religious Jewish holy book. Issue is that in 2024, we do not go with religious holy books in determining such important matters. Religious arguments are as valid as toilet paper. I can also claim Quran or Bible say this and that and lets change the world now again. Ironically the thing that would be the most "objective" would be DNA tests to determine someone's origin but DNA tests are not allowed in Israel. Why so? Israel devilry is fueled by religious propaganda. I am sure most secular Israelis have a much more objective approach on this matter. Which is why they often oppose these religious ideologues that seem to often govern Israel and dictate its policies. This is not me on hating on Israel for say. Iran does the same. Its just that we got no pro Iranian government people here so I do not need to write lengthy essays on Iran's goverenemnt devilry.

USA has overthrown relatively liberal governments in countries like Chile and putin hardcore dictators in their place. In Latin American especially. They got no qualms keeping Saudi Arabia dictator for example in charge. I assume its because USA wants other countries to be their bitch and bow down to them. If they do then they are safe regardless of how democratic they are. Sweden and especially Japan are USA's minions when it comes to foreign policy. That is why they are safe. I think they fear their society getting into LGBT, immigration and other liberal stuff which Putin would consider "corruption". I find it silly personally to think like that as a Green but for Stage Blue it means basically death.

Why doesnt Putin simply open democracy in Russia then? I always assumed Putin keeps Russia a dictatorship because it is simply the best way to govern Russia given its level of development. If Russia would thrive as a democracy then why doesnt Putin do so? He is loved by most Russian and has totally transformed Russia since its disastrously 2000 economy so he would have a decent shot of keeping power. I always assumed he cared about Russia most to the point of killing others for it.

At the cost of 70-100 civilians including young children's from what I saw. That many were killed in recent bombings in Rahaf. Can you tell me if they care about their hostages so much why did their president reject Hamas offer to end the fighting at the expense of releasing all the hostages? Feels to me like their goal now is to cleanse Gaza and build settlements there with their new operation to Rahaf instead of "releasing hostages" only. Hamas has been crippled at this point. It is childish to believe they have the power to carry out another powerful October 7th style attack in Israel. And their main leadership lives safely in other countries so no matter what you do in Gaza they will not be affected.

I understand that for Russia style of leadership is totally incompatible with EU political system and values. But in case of Ukraine for example. Would it be possible for Ukraine to be a not corrupt democracy with decent rule of law while at the same time being in good terms with Russia? Putin's grip for power would be satisfied with a pro Russian foreign policy Ukraine while Ukraine kept its democratic non corrupt institutions for the internal affairs. Assuming Ukraine keeps its sovereignty and all. I think it is too late for this now but I am asking this hypothetical scenario to understand the dynamics here. Could this have worked or am I being naive? Genuinely curious.

Is it possible to be pro Russia while being a democracy? You can be conservative but still a democracy. How exactly does being pro Russia linked with authotarism? I am simply asking here due to ignorance not making any statements.

USA tried to invade Cuba in 1961 when Cuba became an anti USA pro USSR country and the invasion failed. Also they put an embargo for decades on Cuba. Cuba can be considered technically a neighbor to USA. So is USA really above this? Would you say Communist Cuba was more of a threat back then to USA than NATO member Ukraine is to Russia these days?

@Vrubel I can tell you care far more for Israeli dead civilians and hostaged over Palestinian dead civilians and hostages though. Can I ask why? Are you anti Arab or anti Islam? Just curious Also since you shame me about lacking nuance, i can also say the same about you when it comes to the Ukranian war. From what i saw in comments you tend to ignore the Russian survival agenda and just blindly support Ukraine while ignoring all the nuance in the conflict. Nuances Leo has often brought over. Why are you more grounded and cold calculating in this war over the Ukrainain war? I mean that war is far more conventional and less civilian suffering so it is easier to analyze it with more objectively and less emotion. I am just asking not accusing you of anything. For some reason you seem bit more personally involved in that war while in Israel palestine war you keep a more grounded pragmatic pov, which I cannot keep unfortunately.

I can flip the script and say France, UK, Germany have a blindspot for colonization, ethnic cleansing and genocide because they did some batshit evil stuff on innocent non Europeans for centuries in the past.

It is not just Ireland. Also Norway, Belgium etc have supported Palestine quite decently. Countries like France, Germany and especially UK are historical genocidal warmongering colonizers so I do not expect much national empathy towards these stuff. Hard to call an ex murdered and thief to feel empathy.

@Vrubel I think if the whole West gave Israel the same treatment Ireland is giving Israel currently (you can google it for details), this would be solved. I think it shows a lot that the country in Europe that went through colonialism, ethnic cleansing, oppression and even genocide, Ireland, is one of the few ones that support Palestine. While countries that have oppressed, colonized and commited genocide themselves like the UK and France support Israel. Shows a ton.

@hundreth Other religions are more evolved since they came later. Also most of the issues with them come from bad practice not the religion being inherently racist. You can argue Islam is inherently mysogonistic by today standards

Fair. Cannot disagree with that. Palestine definetly needs leadership better than Hamas. Leadership conductive to peace. So does Israel.

And Judaism claims non Jews are inherently lesser than Gentiles, it is inherent in the religion too. Islam is more developed than classic Judaism. Mostly because it came later and built up on previous religions. Judaism was the first and therefore the least developed. I am not shitting on it per say since most people do not practice it but I find it extremely dangerous, compared to the other 2. The reason people find it "ok" is because so few actually practice it hardcore compared to other religions. And I am personally none of them.

Yes that is sad. Many Jews around the world are being victim to it for no reason. Issue is Israel and their horrible policies not Jews living outside Israel. To show you how wrong Israel is here, many many Jews that live outside Israel have openly protested about the war. Well you also ignore the basics that lead people to have such views. Arabs did not worthship Hitler before Israeli terrible policies. Jews and Arabs lived at peace for centuries. There was none of this hate. Their hate came from a source. The source are those policies. The hate will not disappear until the policies change. Start talking some responsability.

The average moderate Israeli yes. The hardcore Orthodox Jews are not.

Dont confuse application from the manual. I am talking about what the holy book says for each of them. I am not saying that in real life Islam never harms civilians or Christianity treats all the same. In Judaism it is clearly written that Jews are more important than Gentiles, in Christianity are the same in front of God. That is what I meant. Sorry if it came wrong. There have been polls where most Israelis said "not enough force has been used on Gaza". So dropping 3 Hiroshimas worth of TNT in a small dense area is not enough. There are Israelis trying to block humanitarian aid to enter Gaza. It is sick.

It baffles me how Israel has completly lost all reason and morality just from loosing 800 civilians. Countries in history lost so much more and kept their cool. Ukraine has lost 10.000 at least and still is not as genocidal as "civilized" Israel. Insane country.

@zazen The issue with Zionism is that it glorifies hardcore Judaism which is a toxic genocidal racist ideology. No issue with moderate Jews but Judaism unlike Christiniaty and Islam is fundamentally racist and genocidal. Since it was the first religion, it is the least developed and Christinity and Islam which came after corrected a lot of its flaws. For example Christianity says "All are equal before God", in Judaism basically Jews are superior and the rest should serve them (Racism). In Islam it is not allowed to kill women and childreen, in Judaism genocide is embraced when it comes to protecting Jews (Seed of Amalek). This is the issue with Zionism, it builds on this ideology/religion which can cause atrocities and apartheid (like it is happening currently). Note: No issues with moderate Jews. I think most Israelis are secular Jews, here I am talking about hardcore religious people. This information I got from recently reading Yuvan noah harari s work.

Issue is that this devilry in Israel does not go punished. A civilized country would punish and make an example out of this. In Israel it does not happen. Hard for it to be punished when half the government are right wing fascists'. Moderate Israelis like yourself cannot do anything, Ben Gvir can. That is the issue. Also I can make the same argument that within 2.2 million Gazans there are couple thousands which are radical savages that kill people and torture them. Yet Palestinians are all called terrorists now.

There is a photo circulating online that has been called "deeply disturbing" by USA of a totally naked Palestinian guy tied to a chair and a IDF soldier is standing in front of him holding a spear (from what I could see). He has a wound on his leg (evidence of torture). Can you explain to me how this is justifiable? EVEN if he is Hamas staff this is totally barbaric and inhumane. Civilized world does not torture POWs and proudly take pictures of it and broadcast it to the world. And we do not even know if he is Hamas. Under all international laws not only torture of POWs is illegal but proudly broadcasting it to the world shows that IDF is not much different from Hamas at this point. Hamas also tortured people and then broadcasted it proudly. And this is 1 case that was actually published. Imagine the dozens and dozens of non published ones. Just see it for yourself, it is really distrubing. I remember leo said once that torture shows the level of development of a country. Highly developed countries do not torture people. Apparently Israel is not much better than Russia at this point. They even proudly show it. Baffling.

Not justify, you seem not to be able to read. I said it was bad. But what Israel has done and is doing is far worse. What is interesting is that Israel has historically killed far more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. Yet Palestinians are supposed to be chill with it. But when Palestinians inflict 1/10 of that back to Israelis, they are ok with ethnic cleansing and genociding them. This alone shows how egotistical they truly are. In 2014 alone Israel killed far more Gazans than Hamas ever did. Why do you ignore this?

Well Germany apologized about it many times and did their best to change their ways. Israel not only does not apologize but they elect right wing zionist fascists and double down on their atrocities. No peace will be possible until Israel recognizes decades of oppression. First step toward peace is apology.

Their illegal land theft is part of the policies... It does not matter. When you murder and kick people out of their house they will hate you. It does not matter that there is a big arab dessert next to it. It baffles me how inhumane you Israelis are...