Karmadhi

https://www.tiktok.com/@sy.hus/video/7351026964825672992 I dont know about you guys but this does not seem like an advanced liberal society to me. More like a fascist state that bullies kids because they can. I wonder if most Israelis are like this when they join the IDF. Smacking kids around, very honorable for a soldier to do... And to think this is in the West Bank. Before you go "It is necessary for the security to prevent terrorist attacks blla blla". It is not the fact that the kid got checked. It is the whole manner how he got checked, the treatment he got. Everyone gets checked in the airport for example at the security place but I do not recall people getting smacked around while doing so. It is downright child abuse. That is the issue here.

There is 1 thing I honestly cannot understand here. Israel kills THOUSANDS of Gazans through the years and when Gazans celebrate their suffering in their strike back it is seen as anti christ behavior in your eyes. But when Israel celebrates Gazans suffering, from their own strike back, it is seen as ok. I dont get the logic here. To help you, I wrote a comment from the POV of a October 7th Supporter that I personally know so you can gain insight into how they think if it seems too alien. "I spoke with a friend about why he celebrated on that attack. He is Arab pro Palestine. He celebrated because he said "they finally took their land back, Israeli thiefs fled like cowards and they killed soldiers". When I asked him about civilians dead he said "they did not target them. Muslims dont kill civilians". That is how they see that attack. Whether you agree with that perception or not, another story. If you see it that way of course you would celebrate. Killing soldiers of the enemy and taking land back is a valid course for celebration. In most of their minds that is all that happened. Therefore, the massive celebrations even in Europe and USA. To be honest if they just killed 1200 soliders and no civilians I would not condemn it (but not celebrate because I do not see Israel as my enemy, just devils)". So basically denial. Same as many Israelis about what is going on there. Same mechanics.

The post is proapganda showing old data before 2023. It deserves a lash out. This was addressed to the opener. But yeah, sorry. I will hide it.

I spoke with a friend about why he celebrated on that attack. He is Arab pro Palestine. He celebrated because he said "they finally took their land back, Israeli thiefs fled like cowards and they killed soldiers". When I asked him about civilians dead he said "they did not target them. Muslims dont kill civilians". That is how they see that attack. Whether you agree with that perception or not, another story. If you see it that way of course you would celebrate. Killing soldiers of the enemy and taking land back is a valid course for celebration. In most of their minds that is all that happened. Therefore, the massive celebrations even in Europe and USA. To be honest if they just killed 1200 soliders and no civilians I would not condemn it (but not celebrate because I do not see Israel as my enemy, just devils). But also 800 civilians in a war is normal. It always happens. It is when the death toll gets in the tens of thousands that you can say things are getting bad. Especially for such a small country. If Hamas killed 30.000 Israeli civilians people would be looking at this war differently.

Why dont you try to understand them instead of just virtue signaling? Holomodor was done 80 years ago, things move on. When the Nazis invaded USSR, Holomodor was still fresh and you know what Ukranians did? They openly sided with the Nazis and massacred Russians and even close to 100.000 Poles. They also actively took place in the Holocaust and organized massive polgroms agaisnt Jews. Because it was thought that Holomodor was caused by Jewish Soviets. So when they actually went through real shit they became animals. I am not picking on them per say here. Everyone would become one under the certain conditions. It is just that modern Ukraine is an independent country that did not have any hardships like Gaza did so ofc they will act far more civilized than Hamas. In Gaza most families have people that were killed by Israel. In Ukraine it was not the case until 2022. Crimea did not impact most Ukranians. And Ukraine is poor because firstly it is corrupt as fuck and run by oligarchs. Their politicans suck. They got themselves to blame for their poverty, nobody else. 30 years of independence is enough to get your shit together. Even after 2014 revolution they still remained very corrupt. Still are. Abusing money etc. Obviously. Why should they hate Russia that much (before 2022). I have read countelss comments say that they view this as Russian people war and not just Putin war. They say Russians support the war at large and Russia as a country should pay. And from what I have seen many Russians do support the war indeed so they are not totally wrong here. But they are not more virtous that Palestinians when they actually go through shit. It is human nature. I am not making a case of Ukraine here per say. Just brough it up since only there you seem to have human compassion towards childreen. Any population would have done what Gazans did if they went through similar stuff. It is just that the world is so comfortable (including Ukraine) that that need is never brough up. Study history and see how harsh revolts and uprisings were to understand the human capacity for violence if misstreated enough.

So you are saying we do not really know what is going on there since people cannot go there. Therefore you do not know whether there is genocide or not. It may be or may not.

@Vrubel 1. I am talking about childreen here. 5 year olds. They did not kill anyone, nor hide behind anyone and are too young to even understand what is going on. They also did not elect Hamas. Yet you seem too cold about their deaths while crying about Ukranian kids dying (although 30 times less in scale). You basically went on a rant about how bad Hamas is yet my comment was about childreen, not their parents. 2. Of course Ukranians will be way more chill. They were not raised on a prison neither did they suffer under Russia. Ukraine has been an independent state since 1991 and was treated fairly well under USSR by Russia after Stalin's death (Nikita for example was Ukranian). Most young Ukranians have no reason to hate Russians per say. Meanwhile Gazans have been killed in the thousands in the last 10 years alone (over 2000 in 2014 alone). You seem to fail to understand the significance between your brother being bombed in his house. Considering Gazans have huge families even 1000 civilian deaths (like in 2014) affect tens of thousands of people. I am starting to see Ukranians support bombing of Russian cities and even were happy about the terrorist attacks in Moscow so the hatred is starting to boil up now. However it is still a 2 year war, this is a 75 year old conflict. Hamas is basically the far right wing armed forces of Gaza which due to the conditions has grown a lot. Ukraine due to them living fairly comfortable lives and no real reason to hate Russia hardcore (until 2022) did not have a hardcore right wing military. However, I have read that they had this Azof Brigate composed of right wing fascists which did war crimes in the past. They are mini Hamas in a way but less cruel and smaller. 3. How exactly will Hamas fight in the open field? Unlike Ukraine, Gaza is super super small, they have no air defense nor tanks etc. Ukraine has all the West support, millions of men and tons of empty land for a normal warfare. I dont like tunnel warfare but given Gaza size and density you cannot really fight there "like men" as you say. 4. How do you know how many were cheering on October 7th? How do you know whether those people were aware of Hamas atrocities? You probably just saw some clips on Tik Tok and now say "they are all happy about it". I have also seen countless clips of Israelis cheering on about Gaza being bombed even before this attack so it goes both ways. And considering Israelis are rich boys that never lost anyone from war (given the low number of civilain deaths in general historically) then how do you justify that?

What genocide? Show me some numbers to prove that absurd claim.

13.000 people dead in 1 year compared to 35.000 in Gaza in 6 months. Not to mention that Sudan is way bigger population. If you consider that genocide than Gaza is giga genocide. Do some research before spreading your propaganda here. And intentionally deciding to bomb people with AI when they are home which results in their whole families dying is not "consequence of war", it is mass murder. Everyone involved with it should be shot.

@Vrubel There is definetly a deep dehumanization of Palestinians in Israel. You yourself show it here with your total disregard of 13.000 dead Palestinian childreen while only focusing on 50 Israeli childreen. But ok, perhaps you can say that "my country people's are more important than others", fair. But however you seem to be very disturbed with 600 dead Ukranian childreen and you are not Ukranian. Hence to me it seems that you do not care about Palestinians specifically. I read your comments when the War in Ukraine started and you seemed very SJW like regarding it and even called Leo too cold on Ukranian suffering. Meanwhile when Gazans suffer 100x more you tend to be the one that is too cold about it. Why so?

Yes that is true. However for some reason when it comes specifically to Palestinians they seem to revert to stage blue level of thinking which leads to horrible abuses. In other matters it is definitely orange to green society. Like even secular Jews seem to have a blue attitude towards Palestine often which i find disturbing. I say this because like 80% of them support the horrible crimes in Gaza. Genocide or not, any sensible human would say this has to stop. And for the hostages, but for THOSE people's sakes that are suffering there. For the childreen. "All Gazans support Hamas" tends to be the thinking in Israel at the moment which is as blue as it gets on a frequency. And why are not these addressed? If they been going on for years now. That is what I meant by my comment. I am happy you acknowledge this is a thing, it is very unbiased for you to say this. However, I fear that after the october attacks that attitude has expanded to moderates as well. And as I said in a previous comment it does not matter as much as ur typical soldier attitude as much as the high command people's attitude. Soldiers follow orders. If the high command has the right wing attitude you say, it will result on horrible crimes. But I seen countless videos of IDF soliders boasting about destroying houses, stealing women's clothes, saying "we killed 10 kids today, it was a good day" and other horrible comments. Like dozens of such videos. Then why did the Israeli government aid Hamas when they are the main group that does these attacks. I saw clips of the PM saying he used them as a tool to divide Palestinians. How is this helping Palestinians go towards a more peaceful which will also make Israelis safer? This is just adding fuel to the fire instead of actually solving the issue. Why are not people angry about this back in Israel?

@Nivsch Do you think Israel should go through a major change in policy and education just like Gaza probably will? I feel like they need to abolish Zionism, at least hardcore one and become a secular state and see Palestinians as equal instead of human animals. To me Zionism is the root of all evil when it comes to Israel. I see it as 21st century version of Nazism and is destroying Israel. If you can explain me how is Zionism healthy or helpful would appreciate.

How is Hamas an existential threat to Israel when they just killed 800 civilians, many of whom were killed in crossfire? Since you are talking numbers. Hamas is 1/10 of the IDF size, not to mention lack of equippment.

I meant that other groups that have been subject to genocide do not get the same sympathy like the Armenians. That is all I meant. My apologies if it came off as too aggressive that was not my intention.

What denial? Did I say this is what I think? I am trying to explain to you how people view this so you can understand why people seem not to care as much about the October attack. I never said that "this or that" did not happen except the 40 beheaded babies which is a proved lie. Anything else like rape, beheadings etc I did not say is not true. I explicitly wrote, "even if it is indeed true, people do not believe it for X Y reason". Then I went on to explain them in a simple way. However, I have read countless comments of people saying that they think it is not true. Then I tried to explain to you why that is the case. It would be good for you to be open to understand people instead of just putting the messenger on the same boat.

Its not that we dont care. Its just that the scale of it for a modern war is small. 800 civilians dead happens. I do not see why everyone is making such a big deal out of it. Especially considering some of them were killed in cross fire which again happens in war. Probably the same number of civilians died in the latest Armeania Azerbajan war in 2021 and nobody gave a shit. Only when Jews die people get so outraged. And ironically Armeanians have went through a genocide too, yet nobody gives a shit. To put in perspective 30.000 civilians died in Bosnia, 9000 in Kosovo, 300.000 in Syria etc. 800 is small in comparison. But in itself is quite tragic and if you would ask people I doubt most would not say that it is a bad and sad thing. Israel lying about some of the stuff does not help either. They lied about 40 beheaded babies. That makes people assume that they are lying about other stuff too. Once you are proved as a liar people will think you are lying even if you say the truth. Which is why lying tends to be a bad strategy. Many people claim there was little to no rape, people were not burned alive or beheaded etc. Even if those actually happened. Israeli propaganda shot itself on the foot here. Lastly not showing the footage to the public furthers the disbelief. I saw they only showed some of the harsh footage to certain journalists from Western medias. Since people cannot see the actual massacre footage they will deny most of the atrocities. And I checked Hamas.com but could not find any real footage of torture or rape. No beheadings either. Just people shot. Which happens in war. Israel did tons of it in the past. Everyone does.

Then how come most respectable organizations call it apartheid? Also mostly I refer to west bank here. But apparently Israel proper is also discriminatory towards Jews and non Jews. I am not informed a lot but I read all independent organizations call it such. Especially with the current fascist government. I said that with a new liberal government that could change.

And how did they become blind haters? Israeli behavior turned them. None of the people I know had issues with Jews but they are very critical of Israel and the way they are conducting this war. But cant you see that that is causing Israel to loose tons of support and downright become isolated even from countries which showed it sympathy at first. Killing 7 Western aid workers is the latest development in this course of events. That is because you are a nationalist Israeli. Also, because you are talking about 1 life. I think most would do that. No issue there. However that attitude on a country level leads to devilry which is why international law exists. If a country wants to do genocide and mass murder innocent kids, to save couple hundred of its people then the world should isolate them and basically rip them to shreds until they come to their senses. Issue is that here all this mass murder is just revenge. They could have done the same damage to Hamas command with 1/10 of the death and destruction. Much was just as revenge because in their sick minds they see a 8 year old Palestinian as Hamas or Hamas supporter. I read an article of how they used AI to bomb low end Hamas people at home and kill their whole families with them. So yeah, they deserve to abandoned. Before that attack nobody was talking about a Palestinian state. Now everyone is talking about it. Also this genocide war has made Israel arguably the most hated country in the world and lost tons of support, especially with young people who are the future leaders of the world. Especially with stage green people.

Because what is you said is ridiciolous and it deserves to be laughed at. If Israel lays down their weapons you can make the argument that they will be indeed killed. No disputes there. But Israel has made it clear they want a 1 state solution where Palestinian Arabs will be treated like lesser citizens under a fascist regime. No thanks. Ukranians are fighting for the same reasons. Ironically Russians treat Ukranians in the occupied territory just as bad if not worse than Israel treats Palestinians in West Bank. And that is in case you are not kicked out and your house stolen by some Zionist nut head. Shows you what "peaceful resistance" gets you with Israel. Perhaps one day with a Liberal peaceful government that may indeed work. Until then a state for them is the best and only solution. Living under Israel occupation seems horrible.

The risk of loosing another 50 childreen does not justify killing 15.000. Especially when a good portion are just out of revenge and not to gain anything. No sane person would say that. That is Nazi mindset. Also the attack is Israel fault for their policies through decades. So no complaints there. As Leo says, take responsability.

@Nivsch @Vrubel I love how you guys lowkey blame Gaza overall adult population for the October 7th attack and the war but when Israel does 100x worse back, you just blame the government for it and ignore all the people. Ironically the citizens of Gaza that are being killed are not any less innocent than the citizens of Israel that were killed in October 7th. If you think they are, those are your biases at play. Nothing more.

With Israel atrocities reaching new heights to the point where they are killing foreign citizens (Polish, American, British etc), it is becoming harder for me to understand why they are willing to tolerate this to no end? We have seen countries that are not Western openly go against Israel. Examples would be starting a genocide case against them and cut ties with Israel. Now, I am not saying that Israel should be military attacked by the West, however it should get the Russian treatment based on them breaking all international law. That would entail sanctions, cutting of relations and expulsion of ambassadors. My question is, why is this not happening? How exactly does Israel, such a small country benefit the West so much that it is willing to abandon all its principles to support it without restraint? And this has been going on for decades, not 5 months ago. These days, the West, especially US has pretty good relations with most Middle Eastern countries like Saudi, Egypt and UAE. Israel is just making the West look so bad, loosing tons of support for their values, exposing them not only as hypocrites but downright cowards when their citizens get murdered and they do not do anything about it. Not to mention funding Israel costs. Seem like a huge burden. Is it because of the Holocaust? USA nor UK were not involved (biggest Israel allies). Also, I have not seen any empathy for other groups that also faced equally horrible genocides like the Armenians, the Tutis in Rwanda, or the Slavs during WW2 (especially Belarus loosing over 25 to 33% of its population to Nazis). Is it because Israel is their only ally in the region? Perhaps in the past yes, but these days as I wrote above, they tend to have good relations with other big players there. Is it because of subconscious racism? Western Europe especially is mostly Green now, this should not be the case anymore. They took so many refugees for example. So out of reasons I would like some arguments from you guys. And please, do not start using conspiracy theories to explain it. Stuff like "Jews own all the media, they own the West, Illuminati, Elites". Thank you in advance.

How come Russia which is considered a very immoral army has killed 10 times more Ukranian soldiers than civilians. Ukraine civilian death toll is around 10-15 thousand compared to close to 100.000 soliders. And Russia has also bombed the shit out of Ukraine, yet their bombings kill little civilians in comparison. I am genuinely suprised about this.

How come then the military of Russia, USA, UK, Israel all break international law in different degrees when they fight in wars. I have not seen USA, Russia or UK do man made famines for examples in the recent wars they fought nor kill multiple times more civilians that soldiers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war You can see in all these wars involving Russia, France, UK or USA you had more soldiers killed than civilians. In Gaza it is like 5 times more civilians than soldiers.

What priorities? I am talking about their actions before this war. Like killing peaceful protestors in Gaza some years ago because "We could not put them all in jail". Countless stuff like this, which I do not see happening in any Western country. I did not see UK do anything like this to ireland for example. Why?