Karmadhi

I mean you can say the same for the October 7th attack. It was mainly caused by bad Israeli policies. If you justify the brutality going on there by "final explosion after 30 years", we can also say Hamas brutality was the "final explosion after 75 years". Palestinians have suffered far more from this stupid conflict than Israelis have overall. Can you give me some historical examples as proof? What makes you think this? A historical example is Ireland with the UK and UK did not do anything like this even after Ireland bombed it. Also we have Spain with EPA terrorism. Even the USA did not go as far when they invaded Afghanistan in 2001. I checked and 10 times less civilians were killed out of a much bigger population (1500-2000 civilians dead compared to like 20-30.000 here). And they did admit that even that was going too far.

So are Hamas. There are hurt people behind them, people lost their loved ones in ways the spoiled IDF staff that never faced hardships in their lives can never understand. Since you put so much mental effort into empathizing with the IDF, it would be good to also see things from your average Hamas fighter pov. Not the billionaire corrupt leaders that use people as human shields. They are scum of the earth and should be hanged. Just your typical 17 year old Hamas fighter, these people I cannot help but feel empathy for. I guess Leo was right when he said "Green feels compassion and empathy for Red (Where I would put Hamas)" but viewing Blue as heartless and lacking compassion (Where I would put the current IDF in Gaza personally).

Would you consider a family living in the same building a hamas official lives as also Hamas? If out of 30.000 you have 25.000 women and childreen (according to the us minister of defense). Then a lot of women and kids are Hamas according to Israeli logic.

The AI claims i said IF true. The ratios are factual, not much to discuss there.

Man this is huge!! This is 21 century version of Nazi industrial genocide. Now instead of factories we use AI Straight out of a black mirror episode if these claims are true. But I think the ratio is quite common knowledge. Even Leo said it. They killed once a senior Hamas guy and 80 civilians in the process and proudly booasted about it. Sick. And to think like 1/3 of them are kids. This is cartoonish level of evil, reminds me of Frieza and other anime villains

Being appalled from watching every atrocity imaginable in real time cannot be put at the same league as SJW that cry about people missgendering mushrooms and cats. Humanitarian justice would be a better word. Virtue signaling I would say so yes.

Dont you think taking hostage 2 million innocent people to save 134 is too much?

Yes but we are looking at the context here. Horrible war crimes that cannot be justified. Funny enough, if I want to look at the context I can also justify Hamas attack you know. That goes both ways. Zionism, especially the toxic one in Israel at the moment is a version of Nazism. It just replaces "Aryan" with "Jew". It is not as harsh of course but for 21st century standards it is quite dangerous and gives room for atrocities. And for the last time, Nazi Germany killed like 10 times more civilians than it lost. So for anything, they got off very easy. Look at WW2 statistics.

Well you seem to downplay and rationalize away tons of devilry being committed by Israeli government and the IDF command. And it is not just me saying this, even Leo challenged you on it.

What would that be?

But from what I have read from him, he does not seem the type that would support the current Israeli fascist government. Sure he can identify with the country, but certain governments are so toxic, it is a patriotic duty to go against them. Best example I can give is the Germans that tried to kill Hitler in 1944. Ironically if you truly love your country and want the best for it, you will be the first to go against them for taking your country down a bad path. There is fundamental difference between supporting the people of Israel and endorsing the actions of the current Israeli government and military.

@Nivsch Why do you defend Israeli government and the IDF so much? I dont get it. Nobody is saying all Israelis are inherently bad or anything. Does it occur to you that perhaps at the moment Israel is lost and is in a similar position that Germany was under the Nazis? A true German patriot would realize his country has been hijacked by people that are only hurting it and push forward for an improvement. Most Germans were also in denial about Nazi atrocities until years after the war ended. Now Germany is a good country that took a lot of refugees and has done a 180 change. Why not wish the same for Israel? I recommend you to read some of the commentary from Yuval Harari (Author of Sapiens). I learned a lot about Israeli situation from him and he seems to me extremely objective, Yellow type of person, at least when it comes to politics. Personally if I was Israeli I would be out in the streets right now protesting about the country's situation. PS: I am not saying Israel is in such a bad spot as Nazi Germany was, but it is an example most people would understand since it is common historical knowledge.

Issue with this thinking is that it is the same rationale terrorists use. 9/11 had the same logic, "ALL Americans are responsible for Arab mess". Even Hamas, when they killed civilians in October 7th, they probably said "These people live in our land, they are thieves that never did anything against Israel that kills us, they are also responsible and therefore should suffer and die". It creates evil.

@royce Damn, even one of the few redeemable things I thought Israel had could be not true? I know their current fascist party is probably down for discriminatory policies against non Jews but is this historical? I think their current Neo Nazi party government will soon be gone and replaced by a more moderate one. By Neo Nazi I am talking about Ben Gvir, smotricht, bibi etc.

Thats great but I never claimed here Israel treats the Arabs living in Israel poorly. Issue is how they treat West Bank and Gaza. That is where they do genocide and illegal settlements. I am sure in Israel life is good. Although I did read a scary report of Ethiopian Jews being given contraceptives' without their consent which could dictate racism. Also I have been told that many Israelis are very racist by friends of mine that went there. However this is just reports of a few people so cannot take it on face value. To be frank Arabs are also quite racist so it is how that region works. But never saw them give contraceptives, that is too much. Racist attitude is a thing though. The Ethiopian Jew thing is proved though (and firstly denied like always by Israel) Ethiopian women in Israel 'given contraceptive without consent' | Israel | The Guardian

Are these Arab Muslims or Arab Jews? Apparently 8 foreign citizens were killed while performing humanitarian aid work for starving people. Latest IDF war crime

Finally something we can 100% agree on. Now you understand why Hamas is so cruel. 75 years of occupation makes them hate all Israelis because they see them all as Zionist murderers. You have some insight now into the Hamas psyche which is not much different from that of the IDF.

Also Israelis as Leo said call everyone working in Gaza as Hamas. That makes more sense than Israeli propaganda. A surgeon operating on kids is Hamas to IDF.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeasHwFW/ They re making the Nazis seem soft

They seem to be the norm in Gaza unfortunately. I can also say some Hamas people kill civilians too. Not every Hamas is like that etc same logic More reports https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeas6tas/ It seems they switch from targeting Hamas to targeting healthcare staff

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeap2pQv/ Hmmm @Nivsch https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeagwavn/ Tell me, how is this better than what Hamas did?

@Nivsch It was in tik tok. I have it on my phone but I use this on pc. If I find something similar I will send it here no worries.

So every international organization is lying because you know couple of guys? Dont make me laugh I saw a clip on Tik tok of a young guy in Gaza, maximum 14 year old. He had 1 arm and looked like a skeleton. From Al Shifa Hospital. He said he was beaten and abused a lot by the IDF. Regardless of what he says, when you have a 14 year old kid missing an arm starved you know this is some evil shit. Words are not necessary. Also how come you believe baseless Israeli claims some 40 decapitated babies yet ignore Al Jazeera for being biased. Dont you think Israeli is also biased here? And Al Jazeera is not even Palestinian.

There was also footage about Hiroshima but people thought it was ok. You do not need to be a genious to know civilians are suffering when a nuclear bomb explode over their heads. Neither you need Tik Tok footage when you read that a whole city has become a sea of fire and 35.000 people have died. Its just that back then it was considered a necessary evil, now it is just unacceptable.

I expected people on this forum to be above this. It seems they are not. I have seen many videos of Israelis protesting about what is going on in Gaza, also they have human right organizations denouncing the crimes there. So there is no excuse to not speak up against it. It is just that they have been heavily brainwashed with the idea that ALL people in Gaza want to kill all Israelis and hence they are ALL seen as either the enemy or future enemy (the kids). Now some do, but not all. Just like some Israelis want to wipe out all Gazans but not all Israelis. Both sides have some extreme elements and many moderate elements but each side thinks the extreme elements represent the majority when it does not. There also is plenty of footage of Israelis cheering when missles were launched to attack Gaza (before 2023). So this celebration when the other side suffers goes both ways. It is not just the Gazans that celebrate when Israelis get killed. This whole thing gives me Prisoner dilemma vibes where each side thinks the other wants it dead and hence they increase their brutality 100 fold. It also explains why Hamas is so brutal on Israeli civilians. They probably also think Israelis want to erase Palestine. And this current conflict has made it much worse since extreme components of both sides now are celebrating when the other suffers. Both governements are extremely toxic and composed of those hardcore groups that actually want to wipe out the other group. First step is for them to go and be replaced with more moderate ones. I see Hamas is being slowly destroyed but I do not see much hope that the current hardcore fascist Israeli government being replaced with a moderate one. A radical Gaza government with a moderate Israeli governement will likely result in more terrorist attacks and war. A radical Israeli government with a moderate Gaza government will likely result in human right abuses and borderline terroristic behavior from Israel (like shooting the 12 year old child in West Bank for a ballon). Hence BOTH need to go. Regarding IDF i keep seeing horrible stuff, many of the ones operating in Gaza, are basically pure blue and even indulging in Red behavior.