Karmadhi

What denial? Did I say this is what I think? I am trying to explain to you how people view this so you can understand why people seem not to care as much about the October attack. I never said that "this or that" did not happen except the 40 beheaded babies which is a proved lie. Anything else like rape, beheadings etc I did not say is not true. I explicitly wrote, "even if it is indeed true, people do not believe it for X Y reason". Then I went on to explain them in a simple way. However, I have read countless comments of people saying that they think it is not true. Then I tried to explain to you why that is the case. It would be good for you to be open to understand people instead of just putting the messenger on the same boat.

Its not that we dont care. Its just that the scale of it for a modern war is small. 800 civilians dead happens. I do not see why everyone is making such a big deal out of it. Especially considering some of them were killed in cross fire which again happens in war. Probably the same number of civilians died in the latest Armeania Azerbajan war in 2021 and nobody gave a shit. Only when Jews die people get so outraged. And ironically Armeanians have went through a genocide too, yet nobody gives a shit. To put in perspective 30.000 civilians died in Bosnia, 9000 in Kosovo, 300.000 in Syria etc. 800 is small in comparison. But in itself is quite tragic and if you would ask people I doubt most would not say that it is a bad and sad thing. Israel lying about some of the stuff does not help either. They lied about 40 beheaded babies. That makes people assume that they are lying about other stuff too. Once you are proved as a liar people will think you are lying even if you say the truth. Which is why lying tends to be a bad strategy. Many people claim there was little to no rape, people were not burned alive or beheaded etc. Even if those actually happened. Israeli propaganda shot itself on the foot here. Lastly not showing the footage to the public furthers the disbelief. I saw they only showed some of the harsh footage to certain journalists from Western medias. Since people cannot see the actual massacre footage they will deny most of the atrocities. And I checked Hamas.com but could not find any real footage of torture or rape. No beheadings either. Just people shot. Which happens in war. Israel did tons of it in the past. Everyone does.

Then how come most respectable organizations call it apartheid? Also mostly I refer to west bank here. But apparently Israel proper is also discriminatory towards Jews and non Jews. I am not informed a lot but I read all independent organizations call it such. Especially with the current fascist government. I said that with a new liberal government that could change.

And how did they become blind haters? Israeli behavior turned them. None of the people I know had issues with Jews but they are very critical of Israel and the way they are conducting this war. But cant you see that that is causing Israel to loose tons of support and downright become isolated even from countries which showed it sympathy at first. Killing 7 Western aid workers is the latest development in this course of events. That is because you are a nationalist Israeli. Also, because you are talking about 1 life. I think most would do that. No issue there. However that attitude on a country level leads to devilry which is why international law exists. If a country wants to do genocide and mass murder innocent kids, to save couple hundred of its people then the world should isolate them and basically rip them to shreds until they come to their senses. Issue is that here all this mass murder is just revenge. They could have done the same damage to Hamas command with 1/10 of the death and destruction. Much was just as revenge because in their sick minds they see a 8 year old Palestinian as Hamas or Hamas supporter. I read an article of how they used AI to bomb low end Hamas people at home and kill their whole families with them. So yeah, they deserve to abandoned. Before that attack nobody was talking about a Palestinian state. Now everyone is talking about it. Also this genocide war has made Israel arguably the most hated country in the world and lost tons of support, especially with young people who are the future leaders of the world. Especially with stage green people.

Because what is you said is ridiciolous and it deserves to be laughed at. If Israel lays down their weapons you can make the argument that they will be indeed killed. No disputes there. But Israel has made it clear they want a 1 state solution where Palestinian Arabs will be treated like lesser citizens under a fascist regime. No thanks. Ukranians are fighting for the same reasons. Ironically Russians treat Ukranians in the occupied territory just as bad if not worse than Israel treats Palestinians in West Bank. And that is in case you are not kicked out and your house stolen by some Zionist nut head. Shows you what "peaceful resistance" gets you with Israel. Perhaps one day with a Liberal peaceful government that may indeed work. Until then a state for them is the best and only solution. Living under Israel occupation seems horrible.

The risk of loosing another 50 childreen does not justify killing 15.000. Especially when a good portion are just out of revenge and not to gain anything. No sane person would say that. That is Nazi mindset. Also the attack is Israel fault for their policies through decades. So no complaints there. As Leo says, take responsability.

@Nivsch @Vrubel I love how you guys lowkey blame Gaza overall adult population for the October 7th attack and the war but when Israel does 100x worse back, you just blame the government for it and ignore all the people. Ironically the citizens of Gaza that are being killed are not any less innocent than the citizens of Israel that were killed in October 7th. If you think they are, those are your biases at play. Nothing more.

With Israel atrocities reaching new heights to the point where they are killing foreign citizens (Polish, American, British etc), it is becoming harder for me to understand why they are willing to tolerate this to no end? We have seen countries that are not Western openly go against Israel. Examples would be starting a genocide case against them and cut ties with Israel. Now, I am not saying that Israel should be military attacked by the West, however it should get the Russian treatment based on them breaking all international law. That would entail sanctions, cutting of relations and expulsion of ambassadors. My question is, why is this not happening? How exactly does Israel, such a small country benefit the West so much that it is willing to abandon all its principles to support it without restraint? And this has been going on for decades, not 5 months ago. These days, the West, especially US has pretty good relations with most Middle Eastern countries like Saudi, Egypt and UAE. Israel is just making the West look so bad, loosing tons of support for their values, exposing them not only as hypocrites but downright cowards when their citizens get murdered and they do not do anything about it. Not to mention funding Israel costs. Seem like a huge burden. Is it because of the Holocaust? USA nor UK were not involved (biggest Israel allies). Also, I have not seen any empathy for other groups that also faced equally horrible genocides like the Armenians, the Tutis in Rwanda, or the Slavs during WW2 (especially Belarus loosing over 25 to 33% of its population to Nazis). Is it because Israel is their only ally in the region? Perhaps in the past yes, but these days as I wrote above, they tend to have good relations with other big players there. Is it because of subconscious racism? Western Europe especially is mostly Green now, this should not be the case anymore. They took so many refugees for example. So out of reasons I would like some arguments from you guys. And please, do not start using conspiracy theories to explain it. Stuff like "Jews own all the media, they own the West, Illuminati, Elites". Thank you in advance.

How come Russia which is considered a very immoral army has killed 10 times more Ukranian soldiers than civilians. Ukraine civilian death toll is around 10-15 thousand compared to close to 100.000 soliders. And Russia has also bombed the shit out of Ukraine, yet their bombings kill little civilians in comparison. I am genuinely suprised about this.

How come then the military of Russia, USA, UK, Israel all break international law in different degrees when they fight in wars. I have not seen USA, Russia or UK do man made famines for examples in the recent wars they fought nor kill multiple times more civilians that soldiers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war You can see in all these wars involving Russia, France, UK or USA you had more soldiers killed than civilians. In Gaza it is like 5 times more civilians than soldiers.

What priorities? I am talking about their actions before this war. Like killing peaceful protestors in Gaza some years ago because "We could not put them all in jail". Countless stuff like this, which I do not see happening in any Western country. I did not see UK do anything like this to ireland for example. Why?

If having free elections is all that matters then ok. Personally a country that does not respect fundamental human rights is not Western value based but as you said that is subjective opinion on what is a democracy or not. But from I have seen it is objectively clear that Israel does no near respect human rights compared to Western countries. There is not much up for debate there. At least regarding West Bank.

Not evil but I think Western leaders, especially the older ones have a subconscious tolerance for colonialism and ethnic cleansing since they come from countries that did it historically at a grand scale. All Israel hard allies either were colonialist powerhouses or are built on colonialism itself (USA). How come Ireland for example that was a victim of colonialism itself is such a firm attacker of Israel?

You definitely abandon an ally that is commiting genocide and broken all the norms that you claim to have built your society on. Not to mention totally damaging your reputation and downright murdering your own citizens. Israel is a middle eastern country with a right wing government that is on the edge of fascisms. If the West cared about democracies then it would cut ties with Israel until they got their shit together and elected a liberal democracy that respects human rights and respects international law. Not to mention putting people in jail for social media posts against its narrative or shutting down media they do not like. Fundamentally its support should be based on behavior not on "we are democracy". A democracy that does not respect any international laws is worthless.

His attitude can embolden people to commit atrocities. For example a 12 year old boy throwing a ballon or something was shot by an Israeli soldier. That was clearly unacceptable. Instead of apologizing, Ben Gvir literally congratulated him to the point where it angered even BBC. That gives the message that killing kids is rewarded and gives you an applaud from a key government figure. That can embolden soldiers to act more carelessly knowing they will not face any consequences nor condemnation from their higher ups. The fact that that soldier is not in a military trial for possible child murder (arguably the most unforgivable crime someone can commit) shows how messed up Israeli army and society is. Humans have been conquering and kicking out people since the dawn of time. "These people were here before you" is a dangerous way of thinking which only leads to further conflict. Truth is we do not know for sure who was there 5000 years ago. Many can make an argument that most of current Israelis are White Europeans that should not live in land populated by Brown people. It can also start becoming about race too, not just religion. So this whole thing is a mess. Ironically this is the same logic Putin uses. He says that 1000 years ago Ukraine and Russia were 1 nation and therefore we can make Ukraine part of Russia again. That may be true but it does not justify Russia annexing Ukraine because they were the same people 1000 years ago. They are separate countries now. Israel says that 2000 years ago we used to live here before Palestinians and therefore we should live here and not them. You cannot use that as a reason either to take most of the land there and treat the remaining locals like shit. It is a dangerous mindset which has caused 2 horrible wars. And countless before hand. Balkan is also full of these land driven conflict. Personally it is irrelevant who lived there 2000 years ago. I have no issue with jews having a state in that land but as long as it is done by accomodating the people that already lived there for centuries. The UN partition plan gave Jews like 2/3 of the land while being a minority which is why Arabs probably went to war against them. I have even read that the Palestinians living there used to be Jewish and the European Jews are phonies. But I did not see much proof for it.

Those are fair points. Personally I do not agree with the statement my friend said. Seems quite biased to me. It was to give you guys insights into how people from that region see this conflict. Regarding Bennet I did not comment on whether he is healthy or toxic blue, just that he is stage blue. But his interviews with Piers Morgan and some other journalists make me think he lowkey views all Gazans as responsible and he is ok with them all being killed. To me that is quite toxic blue. Ironically Hamas think the same, all Zionists are responsible for the situation in Palestine. It is toxic thinking which leads to war. Also I read that he made some racist remarks against Arabs which he was attacked on in an interview some years ago. But to be honest I do not know him much. So I will take your word about him. You may call Ben gvir just a nutcase but he is the one making a lot of important decisions about Israel, not Bennet. So if Ben Gvir is a nutcase= Israeli actions will be that of a nutcase. At least on the areas he is responsible for.

Regarding religion, the West are Christians while Israelis are Jews. Not the same religion. Christians murdered and persecuted Jews probably as much if not more than they did Muslims historically. There was no historical love for these two religions. Why now? Regarding values, it is true that Israel is a democracy but for countless years they violate human rights all the time and even have been accused of apartheid. The way they are prosecuting this war goes against all Western values and International law. Why does not the West realize at least now that Israel is not 'one of them" but instead a much more brutal selfish state and decide to distance itself from it. Why give them a blank license to do things, they themselves would not do or do not believe in? I did not see Western countries trial kids in military courts, put people in jail without trial, shoot journalists etc. These are stuff dictatorships do, not democracies. I have seen some Western countries like Ireland, Spain and to some extent Belgium, Norway take concerete actions to distance themselves and denounce Israel harshly. Especially Ireland and Spain. Why dont the other big Western countries like France, Germany, UK, USA do the same?

I did not want to make this about Hamas/ Israel but I will try to give my analysis. To me their are mostly stage Red while my comment was about stage blue which is 90% of Muslims. Keep in mind most Muslims are not like Hamas. Hamas represents the most radical parts of Islam. ISIS to be even more precise to me are pure Stage Red Islam. But these are almost gone now. Hamas is a bit tricky because to me their thing is about land and resistance more than just spreading radical Islam like ISIS for example. If Israel was magically gone, their cause would be also gone meanwhile the same cannot be said for ISIS. Iran I would put Blue, with Saudi Arabia too. They represent classical fundamental dogmatic blue religion. Toxic blue. Countries like Egypt would be more moderate blue. Talebans are mostly red with some blue in them. All toxic of course. Their guiding book may be Islam but their ultimate cause is about land. At least the Hamas that is portrayed to the world and what most of its fighters believe in, I do not know their top leader agendas. With Israel I find most of their government including their PM, classic stage blue fundamentalists. Perhaps Ben Gvir could have slights of Red due to his bloodthirsty remarks but in general it gives me a blue vibe. To me he represents the most radical part of Judaism. I can tell nobody in this forum likes him. That is enough proof. The reason I mention him so much is because he is in a key governmental position. I believe you that he represents maybe 5% of the most radical people. But so did Goebbels. He was the most radical of the Nazis and probably 5% of Germans at large would fully agree with his views. Yet, many of atrocities of Nazis are attributed to him. 5% when it rules can make decisions on behalf of 100%. Bennet also seems typical blue to me. I am not familiar enough with past Israeli politicans except the one that got killed by radical Zionists (that were part of Ben Gvir group) so I cannot comment on them much. I think some were more Orange and maybe even Green but I see stage blue dominating Israeli politics. Not that I blame them. They picked to live in a part of the world that hates them guts which keeps them from evolving towards green. There is some truth to them saying that its only when Jews kill Muslims that they get so mad, while Muslims killing Muslims is somewhat ok. It is indeed a double standard. I asked a close muslim friend of mine and his response: "When Muslim Arabs fight, its like brothers fighting within the same household. When Israel gets involved, its like a stranger picking a fight with one of your brothers".

I am talking purely from a military POV, MAD is what kept the Soviets from storming in and taking all of Europe during the Cold War. I do not know Putin reasoning fully. I think partly he does not want Ukraine to be in NATO because basically it will Russia open to a huge front and having its sworn enemy at its door. I am sure USA would also loose its shit if Russia made a military alliance and put Mexico or Canada in it. Last time they tried with Cuba, Cuba ended up getting invaded by the USA. So that alone is enough for Russia to invade Ukraine, their security concerns. But I think also historically Ukraine is seen as an extension of Russia. Since Ukraine started to ally itself with the West, it was seen as a betrayal by Russia and this war is partly revenge of that and partly an attempt to keep it within Russia influence, even if it has to be done by force. I fear that Ukraine 's destiny due to its location is bound to be tied with Russia. At least until Russia becomes a liberal democracy and embraces the West. Until then, it will be a Russian puppet state and its bitch whether they want to or not. The Ukranian government acted very carelessly in my opinion. No only they started openly embracing the West but they doubled down on anti Russian policies, banning Russian language and even questionable military action towards Russians living in Ukraine. Most of it is boosted up by Russian propaganda but I think after 2014, there was a policy change towards anything Russian in Ukraine. And that was a deadly mistake which lead to them being invaded and destroyed. Geopolitics is not fair, you need to pick a superpower and stay with it. Like picking a gang to protect you in prison. Ukraine picked the wrong gang, the West which could not protect it against the gang that actually can destroy it and get away with it (Russia). I have a lot of empathy for the Ukranian people but I fear when this war is over they will be either half gone or all gone as a sovereign country. I hope they loose as little as possible which is why I am unsure whether prolonging the war would just allow Russia to get more and more of their land.

I truly believe that when the world transcends Stage Blue application of religion. It will be a better place. Here fixed it for you

Islam, like other major religions has tons of wisdom on it but the way it is practiced in real life are so dogmatic that it may seem so to you. Leo made a good video explaining Islam. It is not a function of Islam, it is a function of ALL religions when performed DOGMATICALLY. It is not like Christianity nor Judaism are much better. Even Buddhism can lead to devilry if unproperly managed. It is like saying medicine is bad because it can kill you when done improperly. But when done properly, it can heal you. Your critic of Islam is about Stage Blue application of Islam which is indeed problematic. But it is not about Islam per say. Judaism, Budhism and Christianity are as much or more toxic when applied by Stage Blue. But that is not the fault of the thing itself, just of the level of development of who applies it.

To be honest I am currently going through a journey into green (I was quite orange when I started watching your videos) so probably you are right. Give me a few years to burn through the SJW karma. Note: Are you lowkey agreeing now that what Israel is doing in Gaza is becoming a genocide or did I misunderstand you?

That was indeed wrong. I am talking about the fact that Israelis claim their vengence in Gaza is understandable because they lost 800 civilians on the terrorist attack by Hamas but for some reason they find the Hamas attack "unprovoked" even though Israel killed 3-4 times more civilians in Gaza before that attack throughout the years (mostly 2008 and especially 2014). Do you see my point? What it boils down to is that Israelis expect Palestinians to suck it up when their civilians get killed but when Palestine does the same back, they loose their shit and get mad. Double standards at its finest. And during the second intefata I think 3 times more Palestinians were killed so its not just attacks on Israel. But again that was indeed wrong.

Dont you think the 1500 civilians including 500 kids killed in 2014, 1000 civilians killed in 2008, countless other killings all the other years are a factor? Perhaps what you say is also a factor but you cannot discount this. In 2014 alone Israel killed I think 2 times more civilians than Hamas did on October 7th. That alone is enough fuel for them to want to carry out that attack. Why do you ignore it? 'The world stands disgraced' - Israeli shelling of school kills at least 15 | Benjamin Netanyahu | The Guardian https://blackfriday.amnesty.org/ You expect Gazans not to hate Israel to death after such atrocities? Seriously? One of the many war crimes commited during 2014 by the IDF. And in 2014 although rockets were launched from Gaza to Israel, almost no Israeli civilians were killed. No "Hamas killed 1200 of us" excuse.

This all makes rational sense and it ties up a lot of how the death toll especially civilian is so huge. But it is so sick and evil I choose not to believe it. An advanced society cannot do this, at least I want to believe so.