Karmadhi

@Nivsch The ratios Israel had before this attack. So no civilians allowed to die for low end and 10 for high end. Also no fucking bombing low end Hamas when they are home. I do not get the logic of this rather than just trying to mass murder people. Waiting for someone to be home to bomb them is insane. Yet their AI did this

Basically US when it came to taking out very high profile people was willing to kill 10 civilians at most. That was their threashhold. Meanwhile Israel was willing to kill 20 civilians for low profile and up to 100 for high profile. 10 times more than the US. That is what I meant. So by this I mean bombings.

US had a ratio of 1 to 10 at worst. So IDF is 10 times more careless

So a convoy that was coordinated with the IDF and was hit not 1 but 3 times is an accident. I cannot believe you are so naive. Again, trusting proven liars is a red flag. You should put everything they say through very heavy doubt and only trust it when biased objective sources say otherwise. In this case it is Interntional organizations. Hahahahahhahahaha Sure, but at what cost?

English is not my native language but bombing someone 3 times seems like murder to me. You can say intentionally killing sure. I am open to correct the term. Saying that is a mistake is as delusional as the Arabs saying Hamas did not target civilians. You can clearly see both sides denial when you have no skin in the game.

To be honest that is how Russia always fights. They did similar stuff to Syria and Chechnya. I was just expecting them to go softer on Ukraine since most in the East are Russians. From a European pov you speak facts. But Europe is not the world. I am talking from a global POV. As an European Russia is definitely a threat. I wish they would become friends but both the US and Russia have massive toxic egos which do not allow it. I read that Russia applied to go in NATO in the 2000s or something and it was not done. Accepting them would have made them friends which could have even helped against a growing China. Turning Russia down was a massive mistake. I do not think he wants more land, he wants INFLUENCE. This war in my opinion is because he was forced due to Ukraine slipping out of Russia's influence. Why is Belarus not being invaded? Why was Georgia briefly attacked in 2008 and once the government changed, they have not been invaded again. Invasion is a way to force influence when negotiations fail. I fear though that Moldova will be next since they are small, not in NATO and they want to join the EU. What?? I was the one saying Russia will NOT invade Poland because they cannot take on NATO and then you said "even with NATO they can take all baltics etc". Now you tell me, that I underestimate Europe? I never claimed Russia can take on Europe.

Ironic considering Israel has been caught lying countless times and is one of the least credible countries out there among rich ones. Standing against lies is fine, then you should criticize Israel lying through their teeth 24/7. Starting from them murdering 7 Western aid workers that were giving food to starving kids and then shamelessly saying it was an accident although it is proved they were hit 3 times. If you stand with Truth, you stand against Israel's bullshit. So you do not stand with truth. If it was just me saying this, then you can make the case that I am biased and a hater. But when Leo, alongisde every non Israeli on this forum has called that out, then it speaks a lot. It is time you reflect.

1. Belgium, especially Brussels is very welcoming. Considering Belgium is a bi lingular country, there is some division within the locals that tends to aid you as a foreigner since everyone is a foreigner in a way. 2. Netherlands for the most part has very open people and everyone speaks English. Also very little pride regarding language, unlike places like France. 3. USA. I mean, the whole country was build by immigrants so. Not much to explain here. Note that this is in terms of easy to integrate and stuff. NOT the immigration LAWS. If we talk pure LAWS, then Germany is by far the easiest to go to in Europe at the moment. But it is not as welcoming people wise as the three countries I wrote.

American politics was a lot more ruthless and selfish in the past to be honest. They basically installed dictatorships all over Latin America. Carpet bombed with Napalm many countries in South East Asia killing literally over a million civilians and much more. If this USA is fascist in 2014 I do not know what you would call USA of the 1960s, 1970s. The only somewhat fascist thing in the USA would be the MAGA group. Even they are partly because at least they are not really warmongerers. Rest are just selfish and opportunistic, classic Orange. Fascism is blue and red. At least classical fascism.

Thanks for your response but I was asking actually @BlueOak. My apologies for the confusion. I know that you Leo are half Ukranian and Russian and American from your previous posts

Knowing Russia it was to be expected but considering it is mostly ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine where there is war, it is baffling to me. I would have expected them to treat them as brothers. Russia lost a ton of points in my eyes with this. I do not get why they do it, it just makes Ukranians fight harder. Stupid both strategically and also morally.

Putin has challenged the monopoly that the West had. When a monopoly becomes an oligopoly than of course things will be roughed up to some extent. I cannot say whether a monopoly of the West is better off for the world but looking at the Middle East and how the West destroyed it (firstly with colonialism, then a criminal split of the land and later with countless invasions) to me I cannot call them a force of good in the world. Maybe for Europe, but not globally. And to be fair threats, blackmail, espionage etc is done by everyone. It is not a Russian thing. Why so? I have read that he said that cannot be done back. "It was a shame USSR fell but wanting it to be became is crazy". They just take the first part and create a false narrative. Putin does not want USSR. He wants to be a second US. An oligopoly not a monopoly. It is not about land. It is about power and influence. Ukraine is getting invaded because they choose the West. Interesting how there was no invasion until 2013 when they had a pro Russian government. It saddest me to say it but if that government had stayed, this would have all been avoided. If you are next to Russia, you are forced to be its bitch. If you are next to the US, you are forced to be its bitch too. That is how the world works. Sochi for example.

Fair points but you seem to be more chill with Arabs dying than other groups like Ukranians dying. And that is a dangerous mindset. Liking a culture more is fine but caring more when kids from a specific culture suffers shows insane bias. That is what I meant. I will tolerate you caring more when Jews die since they are your people and therefore you will prioritize them. Everyone will prioritize their people. I cannot hold you to such an insane standard not to. But when you start caring more about X group than Y group when neither are your people, that is when things get disturbing. And I have met plenty of Arabs and they are some of the kindest warmest and most chill people ever. Just like Iranians are. Their cultures are super super similar. But that is my personal pov, you can disagree ofc.

To see a genocide happening in real life and people even that follow Leo's work to be ok with it shows you how bad Israel society is. I cannot imagine what ur average right wing person must think. I have seen some Israelis call out the war and genocide so it is not like there is nobody that has that view but it is such a minority it is scary.

A Palestinian state recognized on the 1968 borders and kicking out all settlers would be a good start.

@BlueOak Just calling half the US fascist is oversimplified to me. Leo's explanation is quite accurate but I would elaborate a bit deeper on it. It is not just the Iraq war. It is basically most if not all wars in the middle east for decades. Libya, Syria, Afghanistan too. Americans are tired of war and when they read 2 trillion dollar bill of "War on terror" that barely did much they say "Fuck this, let us go now on our own path". Just happens that Ukraine is on the unlucky moment to be on the receiving end of it. Its not personal against Ukraine. But the reports of Ukranian corruption with the money (whether true or not) have also hurt the American desire for more funding. Go online and read comments. "America first". "60 billion dollars there meanwhile my health care is super expensive" etc etc. These are not really fascists comments. They just prioritize themselves over countries far away. You can call it isolationist or selfish but not fascist. You need to understand that those MAGA hardcore people which may indeed have fascist tendencies do not represent the average American which you call fascist. The average American which you call fascist thinks the way I wrote above. Also of course they do not think deeply about consequences. And if I may ask are you Ukranian?

I do not see Russia attacking NATO. Why would they do it? They cannot take on all of NATO, also NATO has nuclear weapons. They attacked Ukraine because Ukraine is far weaker and has no nuclear weapons. Also it is not in NATO and therefore NATO is not obliged to help it. Americans are tired of war and will use Russian lies and propaganda to rationalize it. I think that propaganda is used cleverly by Republicans to earn votes on a war tired general American public. "America first, fuck random countries" gets you votes. Politics is firstly about votes. Trump definitely is somewhat pro Putin because as Leo has said, they operate on the same level on the spiral and maybe they have some shady deals together. However, I cannot say the same about all politicians there. Just like the West is backing up Israel genocide in Gaza that is as bad if not worse than anything Russia has done in Ukraine. Countries tolerate illegal stuff when it comes to their economic interests. Iran and China gain from Russia, hence they tolerate their bs. So does the USA for tolerating Israel's atrocities. The West is just as corrupt and fucked up as BRICS when it comes to supporting and tolerating terrorist barbaric countries. Agreed. Like 50 billion worth of military aids seems a lot to me... Not to mention aid from other countries. Countless stuff I have seen shows otherwise. If you have personally been to every Russian city then ok. Economic growth wise both countries were quite similar in the last 20 years. Russian GDP per capita is like 5 times larger. You cannot discount this. Lets see. So far they seem to do fine but who knows.

Not really. They just despise Israel as much as Iran Never heard of Iranian supporters that were not very religious people. Meanwhile countless not religious Palestine supporters.

@Danioover9000 Vrubel seems to have a lowkey racist undetone where he sees Jews as more worthy of a group of people to have land and have their way. This line of thinking is why Zionists have such a bad reputation throughout most of the world. The belief itself is inherently racist.

For sure. I think people had an issue with the distribution. 1947 partition plan had Jews get 60% or something of the land and historically they were like 5% of the population I read. They only started growing in early 1900s when UK started dumping Jews there from Europe. The historical Arab Jews were a minority and when they get 60% of the land, people get pissed about it. I think that is what I found unfair about it personally. No issue with Jews having a state if they lived there historically but I see no reason why the land distribution should have been like that. The Jews from Europe should not have been a factor since they did not live in that land.

@Vrubel I did give lengthy replies to every argument you made with me so i think I respected what you said enough to reply to it. Meanwhile you skip tons of stuff I write. You seem very eager to criticize Palestinians harshly for celebrating murder of civilians but do not say anything about Israelis even when confronted with proper proof. When you told me that Palestinians celebrated I did not ignore it nor deny it. I just said it is not the majority.

I do not either. But the study I sent is from Human rights watch and is far more extensive. It seems the most accurate number. Keep in mind both Ukraine and Russia will not be honest on this. Russia will downgrade while Ukraine will inflate the numbers. They do the same regarding soldiers dead. You do realize if this keeps going on the same pace, there will not be an Ukraine to add in NATO anymore. They did kick them out because Russia was sucking at first and was over extended. They had a small invasion force relative to Ukraine. Of course they will be kicked out. Now their army is growing while Ukraine is shrinking due to Russia having 4x the population. Also take into account that defending is always easier than attacking. Ukraine tried to take land back in 2023 WITH A LOT of NATO equipment yet it failed horribly. Russia managed to create amaizing defenses which stopped Ukraine. Those defenses are still there. Even with the US aid it is doubtful that it will be breached considering a NATO armed Ukraine failed to do it less year. And Ukraine is now weaker (less men) while Russia is stronger. All NATO aid will do is not allow Russia to take further land from Ukraine. Which can be resolved with a peace deal. Worst case it will give Ukraine time to dig in some good defenses and arm itself (assuming Russia wants to go on for another war in a few years). I agree that Russia is very corrupt but no offense, it is still richer than Ukraine. Their GDP per capita is like 4x that of Ukraine. Economic wise I think it is better off. Corruption wise I would say it is pretty similar. Ukraine is also super corrupt (some say the most corrupt country in Europe). Freedom wise I think it is worse than Ukraine. I do not know how democratic Ukraine is but for sure it is more than Russia. Ukraine takes it when it comes to political freedom and freedom of speech. It is deeper than that. American public is tired of war and spending on stuff that is irrelevant to them. Middle Eastern fail wars and the retarded war on terror have heavily depleted the will of the common American to support spendings on stuff that is far away from home. Not to mention the current situation in USA with housing infrastructure etc. The conservatives use this to gain support but the core attitude is already there. To be honest taking care of Ukraine is more of a Europe job than USA job. Ukraine is in Europe, not USA. The EU economy is same size of USA so no reason for them not to aid more. I think they just use it to further their populist agendas feeding on a war tired American public. I doubt they believe that propaganda. Probably Kremlin also funds them like AIPAC funds them when it comes to tolerating Israel bullshit.

That is a nice way of white washing killing 13.000 childreen (mean age being 5 year old according to a norwegian study) and creating a man mad famine that is affecting 2 million innocent people

@Vrubel I sent a clip of Israelis celebrating the murder of a Palestinian child before this war yet you ignore it. Seems you only seem to care when Palestinians celebrate the murder of Israeli civilians. Self biased at its finest.

I am not a pro Russian supporter. I support Ukraine and I think what Russia is doing is wrong. However I do not like the naive idea that "Ukraine will win and take all its land back", especially in this long atriction war so they should try to do a peace deal and cut their looses now. I am looking at this from Ukraine's interest. Russia would loose from a peace deal now because they are on their way on annexing more land. Ukraine would win as it would stop the taking of land. But their overly nationalistic government is pushing for "absolute victory" which is quite toxic in the current situation where they barely have any more aid and running out of men. I find it disturbing that just telling Ukraine to cut their looses makes you "pro russian". Ironically being Pro Russian you should want the war to go on since it will mean Russia will take more land from Ukraine. You need to be pragmatic about things. Futile resistance will only get you killed. Ukraine lived for decades under the USSR without much resistance. They are not new to this thing. Being dead is worse than living under Russia. You sent an article about Gaza. I am talking about Ukraine civilian deaths here. https://ukraine.un.org/en/253322-civilian-deaths-ukraine-war-top-10000-un-says Meanwhile 10 times more soldiers have died. Mauripol has no clear death toll but there was an independent study which I think is the most accurate and it put it at around 8000. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-8000-killed-during-2022-mariupol-siege-human-rights-watch-2024-02-08/ I am not very informed on that. Maybe you are right. But I did read they did some crimes. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/