Karmadhi

Probably, but it shows Israel is a criminal state. It greatly damages their reputation, especially among European countries that actually take ICC into account. Also It might affect US elections now that USA is basically backing up a criminal state. Being put on the same basket as Putin (who has also an ICC warrant) is a big blow to Israel. One might say that BiBi is responsible for more crimes than even Putin.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-69038760?src_origin=BBCS_BBC I love how Israelis here ignore this. Now their government is officially a criminal terrorist one Good stuff.@Danioover9000

Neither will destroying Gaza. Hamas will just recruit new orphans and attack over and over. It is clear in Northen Gaza. This war has been a disaster. I do not see how people can defend it. I would like to go to the West Bank and see how people are treated there. I dont care about Tel Aviv, nobody says people get abused there.

It did produce some positive things. Palestinian cause has never been so popular and now hopefully it will lead to a final Palestinian state. Slovenia, Malta, Spain and possibly Belgium plan to recognize the state this summer. Also Israelis have been exposed and their reputation is now in ruins. The invasion of Rahaf, going against the entire world, including their strongest allies, is the nail in the coffin for their reputation. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-69038760?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

Deaths not casualties. So 70.000 dead Ukrainians and 120.000 dead Russians back then. Tons of young males in Ukraine have fled too. So it goes both ways. If Russia keeps the current territory it has in Ukraine (which is majority Russian speakers anyway) and does not take any other I think it will somewhat appease and anger both sides . Like 80% of Ukraine is still intact and it took Russia like 2 years to take it. I would call that a stalemate. Doubtful they would attack again and again. Russia taking the area it has is not the same as taking the whole country. Cant you see how inhumane that is? Dont you think it is more humane for Russians in the Donbass to live under Russia than to force young Ukranians to die in trenches for no reason? Not to mention war entails Donbass being destroyed and many civilians dying as long as there is war. And seems like Russia will take all of it by this year.

https://truthout.org/articles/the-majority-of-americans-now-disapprove-of-israels-genocide-polling-finds/ Seems like US public is becoming more and more angry with Israel atrocities.

@BlueOak Ukraine lied pretty badly about its looses. They say 30.000 looses. USA put it at around 70.000 in August 2023, now it is at least 100.000. Probably 120.000. There is no doubt Russia has more looses overall but the difference in looses is much smaller than the difference in population. Russia has around 4.5 times the population and around 50% more looses. Which puts it in a net advantage. I am just talking soldiers here, not equipment. For example during Stalingrad Russians actually lost almost double the number of soldiers Germans lost but because of the population difference it was a heavy blow for Germany and they struggled to recovered after, even though in 1943 under Speer leadership production rose heavily. They lacked soldiers. The more I see this war unfold, the more it is clear that Ukraine cannot reclaim back its lost territories. In the absolutely best case scenario it will just push back Russia every time that Russia tries to advance in a never ending cycle of war and pointless deaths.

Israelis will never admit that they are partily responsible for Hamas doing what it does.

Hopefully they will get some must needed freedom

You can say that. And what Israel is doing is making sure those bad apples multiply for years to come.

Both societies have bad apples.

Dont you think recognizing Palestine, ending apertheid, ending occupation etc will help Hamas become less and less radical to the point where it either evolves to a legit party or is replaced by a more normal stage blue party. i think it is a better solution. Otherwise you just radicalize new Gazans and it is a never ending cycle.

That is like 1 guy. Jeez... There will always be bad apples.

Israelis also celebrate murder of childreen and all that sick stuff. It goes both ways. For God's sake why do you always ignore that? I have seen countless footage with my own eyes of Israelis being happy that innocent people on the other side are dying, and even before the October attacks. Both sides hate each other to death, Israel is not above this. The difference is that those Israelis that celebrate have not had a family member killed meanwhile Palestinians have. Since the ratio of dead is usually 50 to 1. https://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/ https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/world/middleeast/ali-dawabsheh-arson-death-israel-wedding-video.html https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230510-israeli-settlers-celebrate-airstrikes-that-killed-children-in-gaza/ Here you have proof, not just empty words from me. I cannot imagine how a first world developed rich country can have such cruel people.

How many Afghanis did they kill? Afghanistan is already an established state, they have somewhere to go. Where are Gazans supposed to go? Gaza is not Israel, so why should they be expelled? Pakistan is removing people from its own territory. Israel is not removing people from its own territory. It is going on someone's else territory and removing the people living there, in land that is not theirs. Stupid comparison. What Pakistan did would be like Germany decided one day to kick out all the Syrian refugees living in Germany. What Israel is doing would be like Russia going into Moldova, and kicking out all the Moldovans from the country. It is not the same. If Pakistan went to Afghanistan and started kicking out people living there then it would be a totally different situation.

The irony is that the group of the people that probably treated Jews historically the best (Arab Muslims), are the ones getting the worse treatment by Jews. They took you as refugees and historically did not put you in ghettos or mass murder you like European Christnians did. Yet, European christians are the "good guys" for Jews and Arab Muslims are the enemy. Contemplate that Jews lived next to Arabs in the land we call Palestine for centuries with far far less problems than in Europe. The hatred against Jews came with the creation of Israel which Arabs saw as a illegitimate theft of land cause by the great powers of the time (UK, USSR, USA). If Jews started oppressing Germans, that I would understand. But with Palestinians, it seems very unfair. What do you think?

‘The machine did it coldly’: Israel used AI to identify 37,000 Hamas targets | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian Read this before making claims like that.

His point is that just like Israelis called all Gazans "responsible" for the Hamas attack, you can also flip the switch and say "All Israelis are responsible for the atrocities that lead up to the Hamas attack". It is a flawed logic that just dehumanizes people and rationalizes collective punishment. I am sure that just like many Israelis find all Gazans responsible and complicit, many Gazans found those Israelis that Hamas killed responsible and complicit. I know you personally do not find all Gazans complicit but I was referring to the larger phenomenon here. If someone thinks Gazans at large are any more guilty than the Israeli civilians at large that Hamas killed, then they are delusional and biased. Both sides are equally innocent (or guilty however you wanna see it).

‘The machine did it coldly’: Israel used AI to identify 37,000 Hamas targets | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian Read this. It is from a Western media too, using leaked information from an Israeli newpaper. Tell me after reading it, if Israel is actually trying to minimize civilian deaths.

What is best for Gazans and Israelis is that right wing people including Bibi are punished and replaced with more liberal green people. The current Israeli government is stage blue, a stage green would benefit everyone.

You do realize the "significant unjust damages to Gazans that isnt necessary" is what we call war crimes and is punishable under international law. Especially considering the scale of the conflict here, it entails literally thousands of civilians, hundreds of children's and countless buildings destroyed which was not necessary. So that part alone which we both seem to agree with is enough to arrest him on fair grounds. I see, to be honest you know Israeli internal politics much better than me since you are from there. I would be curious, I saw countless protests recently wanting him not to go to Rafah and accusing him of failing to bring back the hostages. So many dont want him. Where does his support come from? From the far right radicals? Because I remember you saying they are not more than 5-10% of the total population. What am I missing here?

Bush was the president of the US. The biggest superpower of the world. BiBi is a prime minister of a small country with 10 million people. There is 0 reason for him not to be trialed. And the ICC did launch an arrest warrant for Putin. I doubt you can make the claim that Israel is any near as powerful as Russia is. All it has going for it, is USA support which can be cut off if the US feels that Israel and especially the BiBi government is becoming too much of a burden. Note that here I am not talking about US abandoning Israel but more about abandoning BiBi and his radical right wing government so they can be replaced by a more moderate government that would benefit Israel and the Middle East at large. It does not seem to me so impossible to do. I dont know what you think.

Bibi with his other war criminal croonies must be punished according to international law. Regardless of whether it is a genocide or not, it is beyond question that collective punishment and countless war crimes have happened. People responsible must be properly punished for this. Otherwise, it sends to the world the signal that if you are diplomatically supported by the West, then you can do whatever you want. That is not the world anyone wants to live in. Just like you Israelis want the Hamas leaders that did the October massacres punished (I totally understand the sentiment), the other way around works as well.

@Merkabah Star To think Palestinians need to deal with lunatics like that guy on a daily basis in the West Bank. Imagine that lunatic also being backed up by the army. Then they wonder why terrorist attacks happen. Not that I support the attacks but against such lunatics you do not have much choice I fear, especially when the law and army are against you. I feel like that guy's mindset is very common for the settlers in the West Bank which is where the violence happens. Nobody cares if Tel Aviv Israelis are peaceful since there is no settlements there.

I have read that the ICC is making a case to arrest top Israeli officials for war crimes. Do you think that should happen and do you think it will actually happen? I think most of the IDF elite and key Israeli politicians like Ben Gvir, Gallant and Bibi himself should be trialed for war crimes similar to how top Serbian officials were trialed for the Bosnian and Kosovo war crimes. What do you think?