Karmadhi

I think this represents what is wrong with Israel. People like you would have supported Nazis if born in Germany during that time. Self bias beyond belief. Comical level to the point where I cannot tell if it is troll or not. You seem like your average Ben Gvir supporter. Thank you for giving us insight into how the radical Zionist that supports Ben Gvir in Israel thinks. @Danioover9000 @lina @zazen Check this out. We have a winner for the most biased guy on this thread.

@Samsonov Thank you so much. Your unbiased analysis is needed in a sea of pro Israeli shameless bias. I had one last question. Here you basically described to me why IDF people enroll and why they want to kill Hamas. That I can understand and I find reasonable. What I wanted to know, is why they do things like snipe childreen and other stuff like that which is not related to killing Hamas fighters. Why post videos with women lingerine making fun of it etc. How is this related to killing Hamas fighters which are adult males.

If they do a peace deal they will have much more reason to rejoice when 100 hostages get freed. And nobody would have to die. What is the issue with that?

What unconditionally? Are you blaming Palestinian kids now? Get it over your head. Palestinian kids are equally innocent to those hostages. They got no blame for what Hamas does. None. If mostly Hamas was killed to get those hostages, it would be acceptable. When you kill innocent people that are living their life then basically you create 10x the devilry Hamas created. The issue with you is that you seem to think most Palestinians are responsible which is a genocidal mindset. Sad.

Why is it so hard for the pro Isarelis to realize this? Esepcially the ones that do not even live in Israel but support Israel current actions like some of the people here. I can understand if you actually live in Israel and live in the echo chamber there, but if you live in Europe or the US, why not realize that much? Ironically the most hardcore pro Israeli actions here do not even live in Israel.

No they didnt. There was every year fighting there. Plus who started it is irrelevant at this point. Why dont they do a peace deal to free them? There were countless proposals including from Biden recently. If Hamas rejects all of them your reasoning would make more sense but when there is another solution, then you have no excuse. I should remind you that from fighting there has been a total of 7 hostages freed, meanwhile from a peace deal you had over 100 in November which were freed. So negotiations work better. Truth is Israel government does not give a shit and is just using hostages as propaganda fuel to continue their true goal which is genocide and ethnic cleansing. Which is why he will have an arrest warrant for war crimes soon . Very ethical indeed. I expect you to take responsability and blame your policies as much as Hamas for what happened and put an end to them. Not double down on what created Hamas on the first place. Ask yourself, why Hamas is popular? Also ask yourself, why is the entire world so disgusted by what Israel is doing? Leo said it very clearly, as long as Israelis do not look themselves in the mirror and admit they are devils then this will never end. So I would avoid music festivals in Israel for some time now, because another attack will happen with the new Hamas that this genocidal war will create. "If we had to kill 270,000 to get four hostages we would do that as well". I wonder if you would go around in the world asking people, would you rather have 1 innocent citizen of your country live over 100 innocent citizens of another country, how many would pick the 100. Only in Israel i see this perspective where their own citizens matter more than the entire world. It may sound cute, but it leads to much devilry. The definition of bias.

And they follow Leo s work. Imagine those that dont. Bias times 100.

Exactly.

Fair point. Still Israel has a duty under law not to harm civilians in mass. Therefore they are still to be blamed. Which is why the ICJ and the ICC have cases against them. This argument is used as an excuse for collective punishment against the whole population, most of whom are innocent. What fault do the civilians have that some Hamas radicals end up in buildings close to them? Jewish, anti-Zionist activist describes her experience living in Gaza (youtube.com) Seems like a normal society to me.

Dude, they are starving. See images of them. They look like skeletons. The hostages I saw their footage. They seemed healthy and well fed. Hamas will not kill them. They are useful for Hamas.

@Nivsch Can you explain me how killing 270 civilians is worth saving 4 people and then being happy about it? It is a horrible ratio and a shame.

I think their goal is to basically make all ex USSR states, Russian puppet states or at least friendly to Russia. That is wrong but US does the same. Where I draw the line is when you start invading countries and taking land from them and deporting people. That is totally unacceptable. Which is why I am critical of this war. I want it to end mostly for humanitarian reasons. Mendling in elections, although wrong, is done by everyone so to me it is nothing new.

I have friends from Ukraine and they told me that in general Western Ukraine never liked Russia much. Eastern Ukraine before the war was more chill about them. To be honest, I can understand the sentiment. I am just surprised it is only towards Russia. My guess would be because Ukraine stayed with Russia during USSR. I am only refering before 2014. Now I would assume the entire Ukraine hates Russia and that is normal. No no. I was saying they should have done a referendum before this war started. Ideally in 2014. Before all the fighting. An honest referendum observed by the UN and see how people felt. Just like they did in Scotland. Depending on the results they would either stay in Ukraine or join Russia. Instead a war started in 2014. That was wrong. I do not expect now those regions to be much pro Russia considering the shit Russia did there. If it is such an European war how come Europe is barely providing weapons to Ukraine and US is the main provider? USA is much involved in it. It will appear like a US issue when the news are about "US decided or did not decide to give aid to Ukraine, without US aid Ukraine will loose etc etc". It paints a picture that basically the US decides the fate of Ukraine. Europe is not doing enough military wise. They should be the main weapon provider to Ukranine.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/6/8/hospital-overwhelmed-with-victims-of-israeli-attacks-on-central-gaza This is the price paid to release 4 civilians in Gaza. Only a sick twisted mind would consider this a victory and celebration material. It is a price too high to pay.

Name me some colonialism happening right now except that? You could argue with what Russia is doing in Eastern Ukraine but there is also tons of outrage about that. The Roman empire did indeed kick them out. But humans in time change and evolve. They may come from the land, but after 2000 years it is irrelevant where they came from. They no longer are from there. By that logic we all came from Africa. This is silly. By 1947 Jews were European and that land was Arab land. You could argue you had Arab Jews but that is something else. The truth is that Europe did not want Jews in it anymore so they just dumped them into Palestine because it was their colony so they could. Everything else is just bs they say to look like the good guys. I feel sorry for those Jews but 2 wrongs do not make a right. So because they got killed does not give them right to steal land and kill others. Point is that you do not use history from 2000 years ago to justify land grabing now. Imagine if the entire world started doing that. That is exactly the argument Putin uses in his illegal unjust war in Ukraine. He says "Russia and Ukraine were 1 unit 800 years ago so Ukraine does not exist, it is Russia. We need to take them". That mindset leads to devilry and war and bad things. You can blame the Roman Empire for kicking out the Jews 2000 years ago but it is not the current Palestinians living there in 1948 fault that it happened. Therefore their houses should have stayed as theirs.

The fault is with most of the world treating them like they are special. The West should sanction the shit out of them and cut all diplomatic ties, enforce visas on their citizens etc , that will force them to wake up and improve their ways. A spoiled brat will stay a brat.

Please stop with this cringe bias. Both sides have hatred and sick people. I dont like Hamas. Tell me where I liked Hamas. Most people do not like Hamas. But the truth is that Israel is the one killing people. During the Second World War there were huge resistance groups against the Nazis in the occupied countries. Examples being in Belarus, Poland, Yugoslavia. They would attack the German occupiers and the Nazis responded by killing thousands in repriasal attacks. Yet, people do not say "It is the fault of the resistance fighters for attacking Germans because that lead to the Germans killing civilians in response. The fault is on the resistance fighters not the Germans, because they knew how the Germans would react yet they still did it". Nobody says this. Germans are blamed and nobody says anything about the resistance attacks that triggered the Germans to massacre the civilians. Why dont you hold the same standard for Hamas? Because they do tons of war crimes and unnecessary murder. When i see footage of a child head being blown up by an Israeli sniper I will blame Israel. No reason to kill that kid other than pure hatred. I hold Hamas fighters to low standard because most are orphans whose lived have been destroyed by Israel. I do not expect these people to act like saints. You are the one that holds Palestinian civilians in Gaza in a low standard because you believe they support an open genocide towards Israelis. I do not think that. I think most are decent people that want their own country and to live their lives at peace. Hamas fighters do not. For me Hamas fighter and Palestinian civilians are worlds apart. Most of the times at least. There are exceptions. I do not hold Israel in high standard. They are the most ruthless army in the 21st century competing with the Wagner group in terms of brutality. There was news coming that they tortured the people they abducted and interrogated with electoshocks and some died. Now UN put them in the list of countries that harm childreen. Nice job Israel. Another piece of shame in their already destroyed reputation. I dont know where you live but here in Western Europe all the youth is totally disgusted by what Israel is doing. Regardless of where they are from. It is truly baffling how different people tend to be united now by their disgust of Israeli actions. So their reputation is gone now. No you dont. You say "they all celebrated october massacre and therefore I have no empathy for them". As if you read the minds of 2.2 million people. How do you know that? You saw some footage on Youtube of 50 people celebrating. Wow...

And they even seem to justify it. Shameless...

Dude that is how all Palestinians feel now in Gaza. They do not have control over being bombed. I would say hostages might be safer because they are in underground tunnels which are immune to bombing. And they are not starved nor beaten or tortured. Nobody is saying it is not a bad experience but you need to look at all the factors here. And ok, lets say being a hostage is the worst position, I am open to that statement. The number of hostages is still too small compared to all that have died in general. You are having selective empathy here. I understand when you have skin in the game but when you look at it from an outside POV it seems ridiculous. "Lets kill 35.000 because of 200 people". "We saved 4 by killing 200", what a victory and happy moment for us". As an outsider makes you very creeped out by the bias and selective empathy. At the very least can you say something like "We rescued today 4 of our hostages. A very high price was paid by this from Palestinians, we are very sorry for that. However, we have a duty to our people and we will keep moving forward until we have fulfilled that duty". War is hell". This is still biased but at least a statement that I can somewhat respect. Now compare this with the Israeli official statements. Night and day difference.

And Hamas would not have grown if the Israeli government didnt fund them and treat Gazans so badly. Israel is equally responsible here. Goes both ways. Yet you are too blinded by hate and bias to see that. Hamas is a direct result of Israeli policy. It is very obvious when you do not have any skin in the game. Dude, people that were killed mostly did not fuck with Israelis. They minded their own business... They were living their lives and woke up one day and saw the terrorist attack happened in Israel and then immediately had to start moving not to be bombed. I can easily flip the script and say "You dont fuck with Gazans" after October 7th attack. How would you feel about that? But I am not doing it. That is true but Israel had a peace deal proposed by the US. They rejected it. People protested even in Israel about it. They have options but they chose this. So it is not an excuse. They could have chosen peace and negotiation but they chose violence and death. They are also responsible but Israel is the one actually killing people after rejecting peace deals from their allies. If Israel would do anything for life then accept Biden peace deal. They want the hostages and want to have it their way. The result is 200 innocent civilians dead. So Israel is at fault here. If Hamas said "no peace no matter what" then I would understand.

Based on what proof? All hostages I have seen do not have any missing limbs, any bruises or hardcore physical abuse scars. You know Hamas could easily torture them daily and they choose not to? I saw that 8 year old Emily irish girl, she said Hamas did not touch her. Being a hostage is indeed a horrible experience, no doubt. But Hamas could easily have physically tortured them if they wanted. The hospitals in Gaza are full of burnt, blown away, injured people while the hostages bodies are fully intact. They do not even seem to have lost a lot of weight. Look at Ukranian hostages which Russia releases and compare. They look like Holocaust survivors. You can make the case for the men. But women and especially kids do not have a say in that. Even if you take kids only, you have probably 80 kids which are truly innocent. So it seems still horrible ratio to me. Exactly. If Hamas was not open to any deal than I would understand but Israel prefers to mass murder civilians over a deal which would have them compromise a bit. Pure selfishness. That is the issue I have with Israel whole approach. They are so selfish and ruthless that even when something good happens, it is done at a price so high that it is hard for you to see it as a good thing anymore. Like 4 innocent hostages being released should make people happy. It is a good thing. Then you see 200 civilians were killed for that to happen and you start asking yourself if it would be better that it had not even happened. If you see all life equal then you would prefer 200 people to live over 4 people. And it then becomes sad news over happy news. It is messed up. The hostage exchange in November was great. Nobody got killed and both sides had happines come to them. That made me smile.

@Nivsch Apparently they had to kill 200 civilians to get to them. It is good those 4 people are safe now but is it worth the price? Seems like too much to me. Not worth it. Those 210 are not less innocent than those 4 hostages. I understand Israeli citizens have priority over other nations but where do you draw the line? It is much better solution instead to just make a deal with Hamas and those hostages are released without force. Like the 100 last year were. Israel obsession to destroy Hamas even though that is impossible is the issue here. US urged them to do a good deal with them but they refused it. ISIS or Al Qaeda were never destroyed, they were just weakned to the point where they stopped being a threat. Hamas right now is not capable to be a threat. Biden said the same recently. Even if you kill their top leaders in Gaza, someone else will replace them. Seems more like stupid revenge to me than anything else.

I dont like ethnostates and colonialism. That is all. Since Jews are doing it then I will hate on them. Its not inherent hate on them, its hate on their actions. Dude cant you see that dumping million of Europeans in an Arab land is wrong? We live in 2024, people are sensitive to colonialism. I do not have issue with Jews having a state but it is a dick move to make it by kicking out natives of a land. Especially when those natives treated Jews very well. You see, historically Arabs were much nicer to Jews than European Christians. Jews in Europe were unwanted, put in ghettos and finally killed by Europeans during WW2. It would be fitting for Europe to give them a state as compensation. Issue is that they did not do it in their land, but instead picked a land which they controlled where people lived that had nothing to do with oppression of Jews through the centuries. I call it flawed because basically Palestinian Arabs had to pay the price of European devilry. If Israel was made in Germany, I would have no issue with it. It would be very fitting. But Palestinians were much kinder to Jews than Europeans and they did not deserve it. Imagine if an innocent person was treated like shit by a group of people and that had nothing to do with you. Then that group of people felt bad and to make the innocent bullied person feel better, went to your house and told you "this guy been through bad shit, give him half your house". You would be like "wtf dude". There were indeed Jews living in Palestine but they were a minority. Probably many more Jews lived in Europe even after the Holocaust than in Palestine. This is why they keep expanding illegal settlements in the West Bank. Does not seem like "wanting to be left alone" to me.

Jew is someone born in a specific group which relates to Judaism. It is inherent. Zionist is a political movement, an ideology that anyone can support which states that Jews should have an ethno centric country which should be in their holy land etc. The reason Jews get most of their hate nowadays is because of Israel which is seen as many people including myself as colonialism and fundamentally flawed in its design. Therefore, people that support this idea of an ethno Jewish state are called Zionists. No issue with Jews having a state per say, but it should be done with consensus from everyone and not at expense of others. Also people living there should have equal rights. Israel is done without consensus, at expense of the Palestinians which lived there for millenia and non Jews do not have the same rights. Hence the hate. A Jew does not need to be a Zionist per say. A non Jew can also be a Zionist. Zionist is a political ideology like fascism, communism etc. Judaism is a religion and is inherent. Zionism is not. At least that is how I see it. Hard core Zionist would be someone that is against a two state solution and say "The Entire Palestinian Mandate of 1947 should be Israel because it is our holy land etc". So using religious nonsense to justify land grab and ethnic cleansing of indeginous people.

@Nivsch Amnesty International stated, however, that the volume of civilian casualties and damage to civilian infrastructure suggested that Israel was not just trying to target Hezbollah fighters. An AI spokesperson, Kate Gilmore, said that "[t]he pattern, scope and scale of the attacks makes Israel's claim that this was 'collateral damage', simply not credible".[307] "The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of power and water plants, as well as the transport infrastructure vital for food and other humanitarian relief, was deliberate and an integral part of a military strategy," Gilmore said. On 24 July 2007, Haaretz reported that the official Israeli inquiry into the war "is to include the examination of claims that the IDF committed war crimes during last summer's fighting."[308] A 6 September 2007 Human Rights Watch report found that most of the civilian deaths in Lebanon resulted from "indiscriminate Israeli airstrikes", and found that Israeli aircraft targeted vehicles carrying fleeing civilians.[309] In a statement issued before the report's release, the human rights organization said there was no basis to the Israeli government's claim that civilian casualties resulted from Hezbollah guerrillas using civilians as shields. Kenneth Roth, Human Rights Watch executive director, said there were only "rare" cases of Hezbollah operating in civilian villages. "To the contrary, once the war started, most Hizbollah(sic) military officials and even many political officials left the villages," he said. "Most Hizbollah(sic) military activity was conducted from prepared positions outside Lebanese villages in the hills and valleys around." Roth also noted that "Hezbollah fighters often didn't carry their weapons in the open or regularly wear military uniforms, which made them a hard target to identify. But this doesn't justify the IDF's failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants, and if in doubt to treat a person as a civilian, as the laws of war require."[310] On its final report, issued on 30 January 2008, the Israeli government's Winograd Commission concluded that the Israel Defense Forces did not commit violations or war crimes, as alleged by the Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and other NGOs. The Commission claimed that the evidence shows that the Israel Defense Forces did not target civilians, in contrast to Hezbollah and to denunciations by NGOs, and explained that terms like "war crimes" are without basis.[311] This report also acknowledged that Israel used cluster bombs illegally, stating that "Israel must consider whether it wants to continue using cluster bombs in the future, because its current manner of employing them does not conform to international law."[312] Found this from the 2006 Lebanon Israel war. Why is Israel like this? It seems it is in their blood to do collective punishment against the entire civilian population, it is not just against Hamas or Palestine. Are they generally ruthless or only against certain countries? I am not disputing that they should defend themselves when attacked but why target civilians like this? Why not keep it strictly at military targets?