Karmadhi

Fair

Can you please send me the links where I can see footage of Hamas doing anything to civilians that is not shootings, beatings or rape? I tried and could not find. You talk about their most barbaric acts. I want to see those livestreams. And regarding setting houses on fire, I read on many sources that Israeli tanks did fire on houses during fighting and also during their employment of the Hannibal doctrine. I believe a credible Israeli source claimed the Hannibal doctrine was implemented. So the issue is that the whole thing seems fishy. I do not think beating people with hammer sounds ridiciolous if you think IDF is as ruthless as Hamas is. It only sounds crazy if you think they are some sort of ethical army.

Ideally you need to give specific cases or examples of biases and double standards. I tried to do it with the Wagner hammer comparison only to be labeled stuff. Only when Boby intervened, did Vrubel elaborate and gave his version. Lets try on this forum to actually give examples and elaborations when we call someone biased. Since this forum is focused on Leo's epistemic work, the biggest boggyman is the word "bias". It has become basically a meaningless slur to say to those that disagree with you, without proper backup of why the term is used. I have also been guilty of this, will not deny it. From now on, I will try to always give examples or proof when I call someone biased. PS: Calling Leo biased against Israel when he is neither Arab, neither Jewish, neither Muslim, neither Zionist, neither SJW, neither pro lobby, neither Would be good if everyone here started doing it.

Dont forget the 10.000 under the rubble, mostly civilians. With them included it is around 50.000.

Leo has been quite supportive of Ukraine and has said openly that Russia violated international law and has done war crimes. I have not seen him be biased against Ukraine. And Ukraine is also a tricky situation and a Western allied nation. He is critical of Israel because they corrupt USA through their lobbies and influence the media to suit their agenda. Leo's greatest value is Truth and Israel tries hard in the West to distort truth. I have not seen Leo support Hamas either, just understand their perspective and not paint them as cartoonish evil terrorists like Israelis do. So calling him out as biased is quite unfair.

Thank you. To be honest there I wrote a very polarizing thing on purpose, but on the longer replies I try to be nuanced and objective. There I was not being serious. I will admit that. This is not me being serious. A serious note would be: They seem to employ similar tactics and total lack of care for international law.

@Vrubel I remember you used to call out Wagner for smashing someone s head with a hammer yet you stay silent when IDF beat up an innocent man with hammer. Raze sent the clip. IDF makes Wagner look soft these days.

Yet you believe Hamas put babies in oven and decapitated people and other stuff. Why so? There is 0 proof of any of those. Yet you doubt IDF being equally barbaric? At this point they got more proof than Hamas. If you got proof please send me. I looked for hours and all the proof I found was some go pro videos of people getting shot with a gun. Also some people beaten and cases of rape. No beheadings, no burnings. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9drj14e0lo Meanwhile here you have proof of IDF barbarism.

This thread reached 100 pages too.

So both Arab Muslims in Israel and Jews in the new Palestinian state can either choose to live where they want or have to go to the other state. Of course I support equality here.

All Slavs come originally from 1 place, perhaps 3000 years ago. They are called "Slavs" for a reason. Go back enough in time to see. I will repeat it since you seem to not get it. I am talking about a time frame of 1000 to 2000 years here. What war are you talking about? Was there a specific war on 200 AD I am not remembering? Maybe another one 1000 BC. This is the timeframe I use. Not 1920. So when I say Russia and Ukraine originated from 1 place, I am saying they did probably 2000 years ago for example. As a secular citizen, I do not look into Bibles or Qurans when it comes to borders. I look at the international law. Bible is irrelevant to me. The world does not operate on Bibles. We use codified civil law in 2024. If want holy book governance go to Iran or Afghanistan. If you want Israel to become the Iran of Judaism, then at least tell me so I will reply to you in a different manner. I am replying to you as as secular orange person, not a blue fundamentalist. No, I meant tons of our land was taken from us in the past, Poland too. We are not trying to illegally take it back because it was ours at some point. Israel is with West Bank.

@Nivsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba It is clearly defined as ethnic cleansing.

Israelis kicked out illegally 700.000 Palestinians, so it is perfectly realistic to kick out those Israelis that do not belong there (In West Bank) and are in principle violators of international law (aka criminals). Nobody is killing them. If you build a house in an area that you cannot built, it is governmental right to demolish it and not reimburse you. Go build in Central Park and see what happens to you for example. You can apply the same standard here, if you want to actually respect the law as the democracy you claim to be. And if you really feel so bad for them, Israel can reimburse them or build housing for them. Regarding "not secure borders physically", perhaps you can elaborate on that because I am not clear.

You are talking about last 100 years, I am talking stuff from 1000 years ago. Since for Israelis, history from 2000 years ago is relevant, I am using that time frame. Obviously in the last 100 years Ukraine and Russia are not the same thing. But at 500 AD from what I saw they were same tribes. And why did Jews get like 60% of the land when they were 2x less? Why not give them 30%? Also in 1947 there were tons of Jews put there, if you see in 1920 for example the ratio was like 10 to 1. But even if we use 1947 demographics, it is still an unfair split. I think tons in Poland were salty about it but could not do anything. Also I saw they list slightly more than they gained. Including historical Polish cities. It is Israel fault for that. They funded and pushed for Hamas and tried to sabotage the more moderate Palestinian parties. There is concerte proof of that. So maybe ask Bibi to start supporting moderate Palestinians over Hamas. He did that so you can tell me here that "Palestinians are violent and they do not want peace blla blla". https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ A compromise is a proper Palestinian state within 1967 borders. If they start war again as a soverign state, then we will not cry here about war crimes as much. Your logic is: Let Palestinians live in terror and oppression so Israelis can live at peace. Not only that is super biased, but that attitude leads to terrorist attacks and Israelis do not leave at peace even. Loss loss. Support a Palestinian government that is pro co existance and two states, give them full independence and support and you will have a proper solution. But that will entail tons of illegal settlers being kicked out which Israel does not want. They want peace and to steal land. You cannot have both.

Bro they are the same ethnicity, Slavs. Same religion too. Even langugages are similar. They come from the same place, wherever it is. Too similar they are. We call them different now because things change throughout the times. Bro no Christian countries left. Only some hardcore Islam ones like Iran and Saudi. Even countries like Egypt, Morocco etc are secular. They have civil law, not Sharia law. And all Christian countries have civil law. There were like millions living in the land called Palestine which Jews kicked out in mass in 1948. Two state then. Sure Never claimed otherwise. I just challenge your proposals that is all. Gaza and West Bank are not Israel. Israel has clearly defined borders. If you want to expand them, then you are breaking international law and are an invader. You think other countries do not have land that historically could have belonged to them? Half of Poland was given to USSR, half of my own country was stolen by our neighboors and the natives got kicked out or assimilated. We are not starting wars and illegally annexing land. Nether is Poland. Israel is fine as it is.

@Leo Gura However, I also heard about another argument. It says that the main reason that caused to Hamas to attack Israel when they did was because of the Abraham accords which were forged under Trump. Those accords did not take Palestinian statehood into account and therefore they attacked to avoid their signing. Using this argument, Trump is a big factor that the attack happened in the first place. So, it is a mess. One side blames Biden, another Trump Sorry, this part I posted when you were replying so maybe you did not see it. I am not aware of all the details. I am writting here the arguments I hear Pro Trump people use a lot. Even people from the Middle East want him to win because they think he will make the region safe again. I guess Trump got lucky with no wars starting under him and now he uses that chance to take the merit for it even if it is not his. I really wonder though how Trump would have reacted if Putin invaded Ukraine under his watch. If he would have pushed Zelensky to accept the peace agreement in Istanbul in 2022 which was mediated by Turkey and Israel. Mearsheimer talks often about it.

They are doing it with Russia, they froze like 300 billion dollars worth of assets and are using it to fund Ukraine.

The argument I heard is that Biden unfroze billions of frozen assets to Iran and overall Iran started to do better under Biden economically. Under Trump Iran was heavily struggling economically. And Iran funds Hamas which enables them to do an effective attack. However, I also heard about another argument. It says that the main reason that caused to Hamas to attack Israel when they did was because of the Abraham accords which were forged under Trump. Those accords did not take Palestinian statehood into account and therefore they attacked to avoid their signing. Using this argument, Trump is a big factor that the attack happened in the first place. So, it is a mess. One side blames Biden, another Trump.

At this point, maybe it is better to let Russia have those lands of Ukraine it has and end the war once and for all. But I am unsure about it. What do you think about what I wrote?

Yes. But under Trump the attack maybe would not have happened. Now for Gaza Trump will be worse. Unsure about Ukraine.

To be honest Biden handling of both Ukraine and Gaza war has been absolutely horrible. With Gaza he has supported mass murder of civilians and with Ukraine has damaged with relations with Russia to 1960s levels risking a war with Russia, not to count prolonging a war that is killing endless.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-republicans-god-intervention-00168108 Guys is this for real? Please some American here explain to me, do american POLITICANS really believe in this shit or it is just being used for political support?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-megachurch-sermons-00168146 Not gonna lie, when they tried to kill Hitler in 1944, he was convinced God protected him and he was the chosen one, making him even more stubborn than before. Same seems to happen here. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-republicans-god-intervention-00168108

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-megachurch-sermons-00168146 You guys were right, he is being elevated to Prophet status now As a non American, this is hilarious to me

THANK YOU Leo I thought the same watching his debates, they really got into me as very biased.