Karmadhi

I think it is because the world sees Europe and especially Germany as the big oppressor and murderer of Jews. If the Nakba had happened in Germany and Jews had taken part of Germany to make a country, I think few would have issues with it. But in Palestine Jews and Muslims lived in peace for centuries. They are seen as innocent, or at least far far nicer than Europeans to jews. Therefore, it is unfair for them to suffer the price of European barbarism towards Jews. Imagine I bully you then you go bully some random guy who had nothing to do with it. It would be as unfair as my bullying was. The Holocaust was not a Palestinian action, it was an European action. Europe alone should suffer the consequences of it, not Palestine. See the point?

Because he has often disagreed with me towards this conflict and I did not notice any antisemitism from him. I know antisemitic people so I know what antisemitism looks like.

Israel is an interesting case where they do indeed have a green attitude towards LGBT and veganism. But when it comes to Palestinians, they seem to regress and become classical blue. Hitler was also a vegan and animal lover. So you can be genocidal and also an animal lover at once. I am not saying Israelis are like Hitler, but it is a very clear case of how you can have green attitudes towards some cases and blue attitudes towards others. When it comes to the specific case of Palestinians, I notice a very blue attitude towards Israelis at large. An extreme amount of dehumanization, not taking of any responsibility and little to no empathy. Even towards childreen. To summarize it best, I saw a clip online of an Israeli who lives not far from the Gaza border. He was saying "we love everyone, peace and love to all, all good" etc, your typical hippie green attitude. Then the reporter asked what he thought about the Gaza war His response: "Destroy them all". Israeli morality in a nutshell...

Not at all. He is not Muslim, not Palestinian, nor Arab. Nor does he have some anti Jewish hatred. Meanwhile you are Israeli. It it insane for you to suggest that you two are equally biased when you have so much skin in this game while Leo has none.

To be honest you are the most reasonable and non biased Israeli/pro Israeli person on this forum. I can tell this much.

Do you guys honestly think Ukraine can kick out Russia out of all its territory? Realistically.

Yes, for sure. Gideon Levy and the B'Tselem staff are examples of high moral development. But I fear they represent a small group of people. If Israelis are ONLY protesting for the hostages and not for the tons of civilians dying in Gaza as a result of their military, then sorry but it is not a high moral development society. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/jewish-protest-israel-gaza-washington-dc This is an example of high moral development coming from American Jews. How common is this in Israel? Note: Protesting to end the war because you only care about the hostages, is NOT a high moral stand. It is Blue. Green morality which is the case in Western Europe protests for both your own people and the innocents of the enemy group.

I do not see how that justifies their inhumane barbaric actions to be honest.

I find it hard to believe that you think Israel has the same moral development as a society as Sweden or Belgium. UK had terrorist attacks regarding Northen Ireland. I did not see them do what Israel did to Gaza nor what is doing in Lebanon. Ukraine was invaded by Russia yet they have not treated Russian POWs like Israel has treated Palestinian POWs. So "being at war" or "attacked" are not excuses for a highly developed society to do such atrocities. Fair.

Israeli oppression kills just like Hamas did in Israel. That is what I meant.

The people in Israel which were killed on October 7th chose the Israeli government and politicians. Every citizen in Israel knows that when you oppress others, they will fight back. It was inevitable that once Palestine for obvious reasons wanted to break out from the oppression, innocent people will die. This is my truth based on tons of research and proof.

I thought Israel is a liberal democracy with Western values. I do not see Belgium or Sweden use rape in this way.

By the way does Israel get a kick out of bombing hospitals in every war they fight or? I saw they are bombing hospitals in South Lebanon and killing medial staff there too. Why?

It is interesting that Armenians which went through a brutal genocide themselves during WW1, do not have this victim identity that Jews have from the holocaust. Nor do they get much sympathy from the world unlike Jews. How come? I mean ok, Holocaust was 6 times more people but 1-1.5 million killed is not peanuts. Also similar proportion of the population were killed in the Armenian genocide as with the Holocaust.

Leo do you plan to do a video on "What is terrorism" where you explain this at length and give concrete examples. Perhaps it can be released on your blog if you are scared to put it on Youtube. I think it would hopefully change the attitude of many people on this forum among others that are not on this forum.

You guys made such a huge outrage over the Hamas attack which killed 95% adults (30 kids killed from 1100 overall), yet when Israel kills 30% childreen (15.000 from 45.000) it is "just war". Israel is making Hamas which is quite brutal on its own end, seem soft.

And you still go on about how Israel is a "liberal democracy" filled with Western values. It is in reality more close to countries like Iran, Russia or China when it comes to moral development and biases. Name me 1 thing Russia, Iran or China have done in the last 20 years that is worse than what Israel has done in the past 20 years? I am waiting.

The far right supports the strong and the bully. The far left supports the weak and the bullied. Israel is the strong and the bully. Palestine is the weak and the bullied. Simple as that.

Agreed, good analogy.

Why should the US aid you? You are the one at war, fight it yourself. If you cannot fight it then try to make peace. Bullying others then crying to Big Daddy USA when you cannot defeat the enemy is deplorable. Now you may say, "They keep attacking us"; what choice we got? End the war in Gaza for once. If they keep bombing, then we will empathise with you a bit more. Oh yeah, also kick out these guys and bring them back to Israel. As of January 2023, there are 144 Israeli settlements in the West Bank, including 12 in East Jerusalem.[29] In addition, there are over 100 Israeli illegal outposts (not sanctioned by the Israeli government) in the West Bank. In total, over 500,000 Israeli settlers live in the West Bank excluding East Jerusalem,[60][61] with an additional 220,000 Jewish settlers residing in East Jerusalem.[30][31] Additionally, over 20,000 Israeli citizens live in settlements in the Golan Heights.[62][63] These people there are the equivalent of illegal immigrants. Cant you see how hard it is for us to empathise with you when you keep doing this bullshit.

UN says 66 percent of Gaza buildings damaged since October 7 The UN Satellite Centre (UNOSAT) says very high-resolution imagery collected on September 3 and 6 showed two-thirds of the total structures in the Gaza Strip were damaged. “Those 66 percent of damaged buildings in the Gaza Strip account for 163,778 structures in total,” it said. The last assessment, based on images from early July, determined that 63 percent of structures in the Palestinian territory had been damaged. The damage now included “52,564 structures that have been destroyed; 18,913 severely damaged; 35,591 possibly damaged structures; and 56,710 moderately affected”, UNOSAT revealed. Gaza City has been notably affected, with 36,611 structures destroyed, it added. This is WW2 level destruction here. Are you proud Israel for this?

This thread is 174 pages now. I see as much chance of the discussions on this thread as I do on the Palestine Israel conflict being permanently resolved now.

Are you from Israel or something? You seem quite triggered about the criticism of Israel.

And IDF deserves what Hamas and Hezbollah gave them. Two devils co destroying each other. Win for the world.

So did Hitler about Germans. The two leaders are quite similar in a lot of ways. Bibi version of Israeli security is to wipe out everyone around Israel to ensure Israel has nobody to attack it. Bibi makes Putin look soft in comparison.