Moksha

It only takes as long as you need to realize that "you" are temporary. You are infinite, and we are all You. Nothing that is real can be threatened. ?

? Realizing not only that your thoughts mean nothing, but that they are the enemy of Self-realization, is the beginning of wisdom. Nothing can be known, and nothing needs to be known. It sounds cliche, but it really is about being. Hope you enjoy the book, bro!

The ego hungers, insatiably, for security. Have you practiced being present, in insecurity? Can you be at peace, not knowing anything? Great reading, if you are looking for a stable alternative, beyond psychedelics (author is guilty as charged, but gets it): The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for an Age of Anxiety - Alan Watts

Running the conceptual hamster wheel is exhausting, and it will eventually wear you out. I'm not much into models, including spiral dynamics. They tend to point people toward thinking, encouraging egoic comparisons, rather than Self-realizing. That said, ask yourself what you really mean by "understanding the existential dilemma". Understanding is intellectualizing. It is not about understanding. It is about being. You are already enough.

It relates to the question I asked you earlier. I trust my intuition, because it doesn't let me down. I don't demand an immediate answer. I just ask the question, and trust that the answer will come. Often it is surprising, sometimes it is even frightening, but I am thankful for it, and I respond to it. There is an infinitely vast intelligence, which is the Source of who we ultimately are, that we can access, even in the world of relative reality. Ironically, the more we let go, the easier the answers flow.

In the realm of relative reality, you define everything. Given that (major) caveat: I define intuition as pure intelligence, which arises from Consciousness. It doesn't insinuate, let alone require, guruism. Children can intuit, probably more readily than adults, because their mind is less conditioned. A few minutes ago, unrelated to this conversation, I was learning about Vipassana, which is insight meditation. I have never practiced it, but it resonates with my understanding of intuition. It is not conceptual, and it is not even emotional. It is spiritual.

My intuition tells me that it defines itself differently than your intuition

God is strange-loopy that way ?

The Bhagavad Gita teaches that God is the abode of the cosmos. What does that mean? The cosmos is not just a dream to be discarded. It is the manifestation of God. The Atman is not just an illusion to be dispelled. It is the incarnation of God. Try getting away from God. You can't, because You are also, mysteriously, God. The cosmos abides within God, yet God is greater than the cosmos. All of it, ultimate reality and relative reality, is God.

Thanks all for the warm welcome ?? This forum was a haven for me when I first emerged from the cave, and I am grateful to help keep the fire burning bright ?

My biggest flaw is self-judgment. It was the greatest source of my suffering for a long time, and even now, it remains my ego's favorite weapon. It is only when I am Consciously present that the judgment is dissolved by love.

That screaming chimpanzee is your conditioned mind, trapped inside its conceptual cage. Intuition arises from Consciousness, as direct insight. Notice that your examples are all forms of judgment: beautiful girls/high positions/athletic champions are superior. Judgments of superiority/inferiority are a sure sign that the ego is at the helm. When you abide in your true nature as Consciousness, there is no judgment, only love, because you see the sameness of Yourself in everything.

As with every truth, verify only through your direct experience. Most of the unexplainable things I have seen or experienced, I choose not to share, because they are personal, and it is unlikely to help someone along their spiritual path, in any case.

Has your intuition ever, even once, led you wrong? By contrast, have your thoughts ever, even once, provided peace?

That's my instinct. I see them as potentially dangerous distractions from the path of enlightenment. For Sadhguru to have a restricted, commercial forum discussing these things makes me suspicious. He wouldn't be the first guru, awakened or not, to fall for material attachments.

I've only seen a handful of Sadhguru's videos, so maybe I got lucky. I agreed with everything I heard. I did get the same sense as you that he was a little condescending/pretentious at times, but the basic teachings were sound. Have you looked at Mooji? I've only seen one of his so far, but I loved it. He seemed authentic. Since my last awakening, I have become much more open to the possibility of energies, such as siddhis, which in the past I would have dismissed as nonsense. As a scientist, I have always said: "Put it in a lab, under controlled conditions, and prove it." Now I'm less rigorous about the scientific method being the only pathway to reality. I do know there have been numerous experiences in my life, which I would call spiritual, and cannot explain objectively. In the same book I just quoted (Being Ram Dass), he mentions two siddhis with two different gurus. With his first guru, he was told numerous details about his life, which his Harvard Professor mind could not see as being knowable. With his second guru, he had an experience of his soul flying, and was later asked by the guru how he enjoyed the flight. Even Tolle talks about siddhis, although only rarely. He sees them as solar flares of Consciousness, just another way of it creating. They are not inherently good or evil, but they can be used to either end. From what I've experienced in my personal life, I see them as a real possibility. Which is funny if you think about it, because all of what we are talking about is only relatively real

Here's a nice quote on the hierarchy of sensations, perceptions, thoughts, and spirit: The senses are higher than the body, the mind higher than the senses, above the mind is the intellect, and above the intellect is the Atman. Thus, knowing that which is supreme, let the Atman rule the ego. - Bhagavad Gita 3:42-43

@Breakingthewall Lol, I haven't seen that one. The few I did see, including a nice one in the canyons of southern Utah which I've visited, were relatable. Just had a synchronicity ⚡ with this thread a few mins ago. I was reading, and came across this quote from Ram Dass: Spiritual power can lead one astray. The nineteenth-century Bengali saint Ramakrishna said, if you get siddhis, psychic powers, on the spiritual path, don't use them. They get you in trouble. He meant that if you identify with being powerful, you can get caught up in a spiritual ego and forget surrendering and merging into God.

It resonates with me, but maybe because I see God as Love, which is the sameness and interconnectedness of everything. Also, much of my spiritual growth has come through scriptures like the Bhagavad Gita, which are rife with divine references. The challenge with terms like "God" is that people tend to associate particular religious beliefs, due to whatever upbringing they may have had. It can be hard for them to separate dogma from spirituality.

Realizing that you are able to observe your thoughts, and therefore that you are not your thoughts. However, it is not what I call spiritual awakening, or directly feeling the sameness of yourself in everything else, and realizing the interconnectedness and oneness of it all.

@sleep ? Integrity, courage, and commitment will take you a long way. You may be farther along than you think. Learning not to take anything too seriously is one of the deepest realizations "one" can have

For a long time, I avoided using labels like "God" because they tend to be so dogma-driven. But then I saw a lot of solipsism and nihilism, where people were having conceptual awakenings, without realizing the divinity of their true Selves (from my personal perspective). So now I speak more in spiritual terms. For the forum, people are welcome to use God or other religious references, as long as there is mutual respect, and the discourse doesn't devolve into religious debate.

It depends. Skepticism and constant questioning are generally healthy traits to foster. Any experience that can't withstand scrutiny is unlikely to be authentic. Ask yourself what purpose is being served by the doubt. Does it disable, depress, and demotivate you? Or does it drive you deeper inward, toward the Truth that you are? The ancient gurus questioned everything. Neti Neti, not this, not that, until only Awareness remained at the core. Don't take their word for it. Do the work yourself, and see what you discover.

You are wise to distinguish between the identity of enlightenment, and actual enlightenment. The ego is nefariously sneaky, and will strike the grandiose pose of someone who is enlightened, and take offense at anyone who doesn't agree. Enlightenment isn't an identity, nor is it an achievement. It doesn't make someone better than another person. If you find yourself looking down on "less enlightened" individuals, there is good reason to doubt your own enlightenment. In the moment of awakening, there is no doubt. However, the ego doesn't die just because you woke up. It will come through the back door, when you aren't looking, and pull you back into the centrifuge of your conditioned mind. For most people, this is an ongoing process, and it takes dedicated effort and meditation to catch the ego in its act. It can be done, but it requires long term vigilance and commitment.

Experience based on relative reality, even if it is your own experience, cannot be validated. How could it be, when it changes based on who is doing the perceiving? Maybe this what your intuition is recognizing. The only reliable experience is direct experience with ultimate reality. When your eyes open, and you directly realize who You are, there is no doubt. How could there be, when there are no thoughts? There is only pure Awareness.