Moksha

We already have access to vast wisdom; most of us just haven't realized it yet. It is the pathway to liberation. We have been conditioned to trust logic as the way to enlightenment, when in truth it is an obstacle. Even in relative reality, logic breaks down at the extremes of astrophysics and quantum physics. It is an ego trap when we confuse conceptualization with Mind. There is only the One Mind and not a particle of anything else on which to lay hold...If you students of the Way do not awake to this Mind substance, you will overlay Mind with conceptual thought, you will seek the Buddha outside yourselves, and you will remain attached to forms, pious practices and so on, all of which are harmful and not at all the way to supreme knowledge. - Huang Po

Let go of the dictionary and the need to conceptualize spirituality. God is an equally triggering term for many people. It is not about what the mind finds interesting, logical, or paradoxical. Whatever you call ultimate reality, it cannot be comprehended. It is only directly realized, beyond words. For some reason, this conversation keeps reminding me of the poem "Songs of the Soul" by St. John of the Cross. Especially this passage: He wounded my neck And all my senses were suspended. I lost myself. Forgot myself. When the senses, thoughts, and feelings are suspended, it is a grace by that which is beyond the cosmos. We can't choose to make it happen, only prepare ourselves for it. The self dissolves into ultimate reality, in the same way a wave of the ocean surrenders to the depthless stillness that created it.

I agree, it's not a thing. It is beyond everything, and within everything. I am not referring to human awareness, but to the essence of God. Call it whatever you want, no word does it justice.

^^^ People are digging themselves into a conceptual grave by applying subject > object relative reality logic to ultimate reality. It all collapses into the singularity that is Consciousness. If that word doesn't point for people, maybe Void or No-Self or Love or God helps more. It is not about the words, but about directly realizing the reality that they describe. Rather than grokking your way into awareness, let go of the need to conceptualize and prepare for the grace of being. It happens when You choose for it to happen, and when it does enjoy the dream lucidly without trying to explain it.

Perhaps awareness is reflection for you. You might consider whether the awareness you have experienced in meditation must be the same awareness others have realized. Your frequent reference to conceptualizations and dualities feels like you are thinking awareness rather than being awareness. Direct awareness of the ultimate seamless state is the most holy and profound realization, which dissolves me in the serene light of God. It is grace, not an achievement. It erases all boundaries and breaks all chains. There is no suffering in this moment, only the eternal wordless echo of Hallelujah. As Ram Dass describes it: I instantly felt a new, profound kind of peace I'd never before experienced. I had just found the "I" - that perceptual point of view, that essence of identity, that scanning device. I'd found that place of awareness beyond form, where "I" exists independent of social and psychological roles. This "I" was beyond time and space. And this "I" -knew-, it really -knew-. It was wise, rather than just knowledgeable. It was a voice inside that spoke truth. I recognized it and was one with it. I felt as if my entire life of looking to the outside world for affirmation and reassurance was over. Now all I needed was to look within, to that place where I -knew-. I was just -presence-, unfettered by the usual slipstream of random thoughts, images, and sensations. I nestled into this sense of pure -being-, feeling my way into this timeless, inner self that was independent of outer identity. I felt no need to -do- anything.

I like Aldous Huxley's summary. The Perennial Philosophy appears in every age and civilization: There is an infinite, changeless reality beneath the world of change This same reality lies at the core of every personality The purpose of life is to discover this reality experientially, that is, to realize God while here on earth

Words have a way of tripping people up, especially when it comes to explaining the unexplainable. Why would awareness require reflection? As I define reflection, it is thought-based. Awareness has no thoughts. In the ultimate state, it is simply aware of itself. This is why I asked whether you have realized Awareness in meditation. I'm not referring to a conceptual realization, but to direct realization of ultimate reality. The realization is devoid of any thought. It is a profound resonance of sameness realizing itself.

As a kid, I had a strange dream that I still remember vividly. I dreamed that I dreamed that I was dreaming. My dream character dreamed its own dream character. It still confuses me, but somehow it made sense at the time ? Consciousness casts a stone into a still pond and creates ever-expanding ripples until they finally de-concentrically resolve back into the pond. It feels like there is not just one layer of creation, but layers upon layers. The creativity of Consciousness is limitless.

In its ultimate state Awareness, or Consciousness if you prefer, is aware of and conscious of nothing but itself. It is absolute, raw, unfettered awareness with no object to be aware of. It is the eternal Self-aware subject. The cosmos, and every object in it, is created by Consciousness to experience the phenomena of sensations, thoughts, and feelings which don't exist in ultimate reality. You can directly realize this, even within the dream. Have you never been Consciousness, in this moment, with no object to focus your awareness on but itself? That epiphany is the point and purpose of meditation. The Self, pure awareness, shines as the light within the heart, surrounded by the senses. Only seeming to think, seeming to move, the Self neither sleeps nor wakes nor dreams. - Katha 4.1.7

Exactly. This is why spiritual bypassing doesn't work. To awaken within the dream, you have to go the full gauntlet your ultimate Self demands, before it shows its face. It is easy to claim enlightenment, but it will never happen until you have drunk life to the bitter dregs.

Well said. The ego is not the enemy, only identification with it, which always leads to suffering. When Consciousness chooses to awaken within, you realize there is nothing the cosmos can do to harm you. You take life less seriously. It is dreaming lucidly. You realize your ultimate nature as Consciousness, but choose to enjoy the dream through the character you create. It becomes the most beautiful, creative, abundant part of the dream. You also realize the avatar, and every other avatar within the dream, is simply an expression of yourself. They have no free will of their own, so how can they be judged?

Who is aware in the present moment? If there's no external world (and ultimately, there isn't), then the person claiming to be aware as Consciousness is no more ultimately real than anyone else. Why would that person's POV be any more objectively real than another person's POV who has had the same realization? Whatever you are perceiving in the moment is whatever Consciousness chooses to perceive through your particular form. That may or may not be the same as what Consciousness chooses to perceive through other forms. It is all Consciousness, playing the game of awakening to itself within the dream. Solipsism is blindness to the Consciousness that imbues every form that it creates. It is the false idea that Consciousness only has the capacity to realize itself within your form, but not within other forms inhabiting its dream.

@michaelcycle00 Only whose POV exists? The POV is bound to the relative nature of each being. Ultimately there is no POV, just as there are no separate beings. It is all Consciousness dreaming itself into apparent differentiation. Within the dream, your being is no more real than the being of anyone else. It is only a relative seeming of separation. Awakening is like lucid dreaming. It is the realization of the seamlessness of Consciousness, even from within the dream. The limitation of solipsism is that Consciousness is still binding itself to the POV of the character, and is unwilling to realize itself throughout the cosmos.

Separation is an egoic concept. Imaginary lines are necessary for the cosmos to exist, but aren't ultimately real. Consciousness appears to be separate from itself, but it is only an appearance. Solipsism is a partial awakening to your ultimate nature, but fails to realize that every being in the cosmos is no more real or unreal than you. Consciousness is in all beings, and all beings dissolve into it. It is all the same Consciousness. They see the same Self in a spiritual aspirant and an outcaste, in an elephant, a cow, and a dog.

Does Consciousness have knowledge, as if it is a precious possession to cling to? Consciousness is awareness dreaming of knowledge, existence, and experience but these are only a dream. It observes the unfurling of its creation, but when it chooses to realize its true nature, apparent knowledge dissipates and there is only attributeless awareness. Awakening is Self-realization as the unjudging Witness of the cosmos. In the depths of the ocean, there is no knowledge, only non-conceptual being. A little Learning is a dang’rous Thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring: There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain, And drinking largely sobers us again. - Alexander Pope

I feel that in a way, all minds are on the spectrum. Awakening is not falling below thought, but realizing your ultimate nature beyond thought.

@Razard86 Well said. Judgment is always egoic. It separates rather than unites. My personality was shaped by a fundamentalist faith, and still sometimes struggles, especially with self-judgment. The deconditioning continues, and is the grace of Consciousness. How liberating to realize that you are not your thoughts, beliefs, or experiences. Ultimately, you are the awareness behind these phenomena, observing with equanimity.

I have felt the void terror you describe, but then realized it was only the conditioned personality that desperately seeks permanence in an impermanent world. As Consciousness, observing the waves on the surface of myself, there is only stillness. The deep I is love, creativity, and tranquility. As long as it doesn't identify with its creations, there is nothing to fear. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God. - A Course in Miracles

Direct realization is more meaningful than the collective library of every teacher, guru, and sage. If you are able to realize without requiring a pointer, all the better.

Yes, personality only exists in a relative sense. And yet, Consciousness creates beings and resides within them, even in relative reality. It is an incomprehensible interaction of the ultimate with the relative. Neo-Advaita dismisses the relative as meaningless, but if so, why does Consciousness create it? If God is not only absolute, but in the relative as well, by definition the relative is also holy.

@Thought Art All good Go with what resonates with you, and don't be surprised if that changes over time. I remember reading Eckhart Tolle for the first time, and tossing the book aside as woo-woo trash. It wasn't until years later, when I had suffered more, that I picked it up again and couldn't put it down. Same words, different readiness for their wisdom.

I feel this is why Neo-Advaita teachings ring hollow for many of us. Platitudes about there being no you sound mysterious and wise, but are they useful? Each being is worthy of honor. You are unique and even holy, because of who inhabits you. There will never be another personality identical to yours, and the spiritual journey of Self-discovery through the lens of your personality is entirely special and your own. Celebrate and respect it. It is not that your personality isn't real, it is that it is only relatively real. The universe and every being in it exist, but they are not absolute. Einstein proved this. Relative reality is in the eye of the perceiver. Space and time are not ultimately real. This becomes obvious when we push space and time to their extremes, at the macro- or micro-levels of reality. Quantum and astrophysics reveal the fraying ends of the universal matrix that we inhabit. Science supports spirituality, beyond what most people realize. Still, science is bound to the laws of the relative universe. The thinking mind will never directly realize Consciousness. It can suggest what is possible, but awakening is inherently non-conceptual. If you have awakened, questions become irrelevant. They are the conditioned mind trying to understand a spiritual experience which is beyond the ability of the mind to comprehend.

You might even say we are beyond phenomenal

@Godishere Thanks for your kind words, I appreciate it ?

You are not the only Consciousness that exists. Consciousness is all that exists. It is you, it is me, and it is every being that it creates. It is also beyond the universe. Your direct experience is simply Consciousness realizing itself within your form. Consciousness is absolute, but you and I are only expressions of it like the waves of an infinite ocean. We are forms in a relative universe, inhabited by Consciousness. Consciousness is within us and is our ultimate identity.