Moksha

@Breakingthewall No ideas are what they point toward, but some point to the absolute more directly than others. The idea of solipsism is a poor pointer. Although also incorrect, the idea of others outside of you is still a better pointer than the idea that only you exist. At least it keeps open the way for seeing the same absolute, not only within your form, but within all forms. Sometimes a half-truth is more deceptive than blindness. Few people go directly to the source, and few are likewise enlightened. Still, it is the best path if you are able to take it. Otherwise, find whatever method takes you inward, without calcifying the concept of perspective. @Yimpa You would if you were God within the person using the banana as a pointer @StarStruck Ah yes, the mystic seeing beyond the trappings of Judaism to the glittering truth within its depths. ?

@Judy2 Yes, a moral compass is a good analogy. Judgment is the steadiness of the needle, but it is only useful when an accurate map is being followed INFJs tend to troop off in whatever direction our current level of awareness tells us to go. It may be toward an oasis or off a cliff, but we march with determination to the inevitable end. The "N" in us can be honed to ensure we are carrying the correct map in the first place. As you have realized, behaviors that help us feel safe often cause more harm than good. Of course, we need form survival to continue experiencing the dream, but the truth is that most of what is required can be sustained on autopilot. This realization is especially poignant for people like INFJs who tend to maximize everything, including the suffering of misguided navigation. Instead of losing yourself in attempts to feel safe from external threats, or to secure happiness through external desires, the secret is to find yourself within. When it happens, the light of the absolute will burst through, and you will laugh at former attempts to protect that which can never be harmed. My advice is to find whatever tool that turns your attention inward. Maybe it's meditation, guidance from an awakened teacher, contemplation of writings like the Bhagavad Gita, or ideally direct self-inquiry. It's less about the method than about leveraging whatever method helps you enter the gate of absolute realization.

@OldManCorcoran ⚡Who knew the insight intersection of psychedelics and suffering would be symbolized by a babushka doll @Breakingthewall Why settle for an idea that continues to mislead and confuse people, instead of diving directly into the source? When people read "you are infinity", they conflate "you" with their form perspective. They believe that only their awareness is real, and that the rest of the cosmos (even family members) is their imagination. They don't understand that their form is equally being imagined, and that the absolute is imagining itself through countless other forms, including those that they encounter within the dream. It is a false perspective that leads to a deeply egoic sense of loneliness and annihilism. I've never read the writings of a mystic that endorses this false idea, nor has it ever occurred to me. I may be mistaken, but solipsism seems to happen most often to people that have tried psychedelics. Not to say the idea can't eventually be dropped, but why perpetuate it in the first place?

Completely agree. This forum seems stuck in a perpetual struggle with solipsism, which devalues the dream and leaves people feeling lonely and feckless. It's an insidious snare, and needs to be called out whenever it whack-a-moles itself into yet another thread. The cosmos, including each form engaging with this forum, is here for a reason. Awakening doesn't diminish the beauty of the dream. To the contrary, lucid dreaming enhances the vibrancy of every experience. It is the highest and deepest adventure. Your quote from Ken Wilbur said it more eloquently than me, I can only fully endorse what he said.

I'd say you're right Suffering and enlightenment are opposite ends of the same stick. The absolute rarely manifests an anchored form. Apparently we prefer the oceanic adventure, first outward toward the enticing horizon, and finally back into the serene port of ourselves. Beliefs and even realizations are insufficient to stop the ship and reverse course. Only integration, which is abandoning the swashbuckler's song in favor of silence, brings us home.

@Schizophonia Religious dogmas were the source of my indoctrination. I was spiritual before religion, during religion, and after religion. Religious beliefs added an unnecessary conceptual layer that obscured rather than facilitated absolute awareness. I used to bother too much, but not much bothers me any more. @Judy2 I wouldn't be surprised, given that "J" personalities are more likely to judge themselves or others, with the collateral damage that ensues in its wake. Judgment is a megaphone. Initially it amplifies the voice of misidentification, but after realization, it amplifies the inner voice. We are seers and prophets in the making In a nutshell, a couple years ago my suffering reached the critical mass necessary for me to break. I realized that the lies my mind had told me about what was necessary for happiness and peace (hyper-vigilance, perpetual mental processing, harsh recrimination for minor mistakes, etc.) had led to just the opposite. It was unrelenting torture that only became worse with time. I remember this image of white-knuckled fingers clinging desperately to the ledge, and willingly letting go to fall into the void. I didn't know what would happen, only that anything was better than the hell I was in. My awareness plummeted deeper, and the absolute within caught itself and kept it safe. That was my awakening. There are more chapters than that, but it gives you a glimpse which I hope is helpful in some way.

@Water by the River Beautiful quote from Ken Wilbur, thanks for sharing. ? We sometimes think of the human form as a single-layered container, but it is more like a babushka doll: It is a composite of nested forms, progressing in refinement from the gross (physical) to the subtle (mental) and finally to the supra-subtle (soul). Each of these forms is also made of maya, but progressively brings awareness closer to its formless state. When realization goes deep, even beyond the soul, there is only pure awareness. The witness and the witnessed conflate into the absolute reality beyond both.

@Yimpa @CARDOZZO @QQQ I'm happy it's helpful. Even though the journey is unique, sometimes the absolute sees itself more clearly within a form by sensing itself within the form of others. @Razard86 You began by agreeing that everyone is sincere, and concluded that people must take accountability for their actions, with which I also agree. What is accountability, other than the absolute beginning to direct its awareness inward toward itself? It does this through various spiritual practices and teachings, which gradually clear the haze of its confusion and return it to the clarity beyond the inner gate. @Breakingthewall Who is choosing to be stupid, the human or the absolute within the human form? It seems that the more complex a form becomes, the deeper its capacity for both thought-entrapment and realization. It's like a swinging pendulum, between the extremes of external and internal identification. Simple forms are nearly still, or move in narrow arcs. The more evolved the form, the larger its arc becomes. To deeply realize itself within the cosmos, the absolute must also grapple with the intense gravity of misidentification.

This interaction, and every other experience you have, is the absolute preparing itself for awakening. The sooner you see this, the easier it will be when the time comes. To the extent you can, prepare for it without preconditions. The soil is fertilized, rain falls upon the tree, and when it is finally ripe the apple falls. Awareness goes where it is needed. It responds when it is called. It enlivens, ripens, and savors the fruit of its garden. The careful Gardener grows us with its light, until we are heavy and sweet for harvest. When we are ready, like a full apple, we release our attachment from the tree. Thudding into the earth, we spill our seeds into the soil. Awareness is here, tending the seeds with its light. The shoot of an apple tree erupts from the surface, new life in the abundant garden, and Awareness is here.

Memory will not help you be awake, nor will anticipation. Either you directly realize the absolute in this moment or you are lost in the labyrinth of thought.

@Breakingthewall The purpose is the journey itself. Beyond the journey, there is no need for purpose, only effortless effulgent being. The absolute is the well of light without dimensions. Eventually each of our apparent forms dissolves as we awaken to the limitless love and glory which we actually are. We spend so much of our lives in fear; seeing your true nature is so joyful that it banishes fear and sets you free, even while still within the dream. Enlightenment requires the deepest sincerity, and often the absolute cultivates this sincerity by causing its form to suffer. With each challenge, the roots grow deeper. There are no shortcuts, only patiently following the inward path that must be followed. No reason to worry about getting there faster, the absolute within is fulfilling its design in its own way through each form, and it will not be denied. The part of you that hopes there is more game will receive what it desires. It's only when you have flown through the dream long enough, and your wings grow weary, that you will be ready to let the game go and return home. @CARDOZZO Too many to list, but in rough order by milestone each of these has been luminous in its time: Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach Genesis/Psalms/Proverbs (old testament) and the teachings of Jesus (gospels in the new testament) Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl Stages of Faith by James Fowler The Story of Philosophy by Will Durant Eckhart Tolle Tao Te Ching Bhagavad Gita The Mind Illuminated Alan Watts Mooji Being Ram Dass Upanishads Dhammapada Dark Night of the Soul Untethered Soul Nisargadatta Maraj Ramana Maharshi Next on my list: Rig Veda I don't follow many contemporary teachers, and tend to dive into the original mystic writings. It takes me a long time to work through pondering a book. I savor and integrate every insight. It's more about the unconditional light flooding through as I contemplate, than about any particular realization. It dissolves and sinks me into the absolute. As I said earlier, each of us has to carve our own path, but I hope this helps in some way.

It's been a journey for sure. Seeing through the lies of my religious beliefs was helpful early on. It liberated me from the shackles of indoctrination, but not from self-judgment. I've always had a deep intrinsic desire to align my life with truth. The ego is so insidious that it perverts even a pure desire like this into perpetual shame, in the pursuit of perfection. It took decades of suffering before I finally realized that my desire to be good wasn't doing any good. I had to be prostrated by own karma of continuous anxiety, OCD, guilt, depression, and seeing how my suffering was causing those I love to suffer, before I was finally ready to surrender. If only I had surrendered sooner, but better late than never. @funkychunkymonkey I stutter as well. Just one in a trail of easter eggs that I hid within this character's life, as a pointer to deepening awareness.

@Breakingthewall Exactly right. The spiritual journey is a rocket launching into outer space. Its initial engine takes it to a certain height, and then the rocket body is released to plummet back to the earth as the capsule continues its ascent at even greater speed. Eventually the absolute breaks through the sound barrier to deep realization. When that happens, resistance shifts and the minimal form is free to travel by its own momentum. Enlightenment is moving through the dream and enjoying experience, while remaining anchored in absolute awareness. Form survival becomes a whispering automatic process in the background, and there is no longer the distraction of doing anything at all.

@Holykael It's true, the only will is the absolute, which is the only reality. Everything else is the dream, or the absolute in disguise, which also dances to absolute will.

@Breakingthewall Seeing through the gate is different from abiding beyond it. When surrender is deep enough, the mind is no longer at risk of returning to the burden of its conditioning. Until then, suffering continues to serve its purpose. @CARDOZZO Spiritual paths are as diverse as the humans that take them. They are informed by each person's unique predispositions, but they all lead to the same absolute destination.

Weakness: Self-judgment, which has been my deepest source of suffering. Strength: Spirituality as the natural state.

Most people aren't ready to climb to the summit of perpetual awareness. They may temporarily see it from a distance, through psychedelics or other spiritual experiences, but the peek is not the peak. They lack the stamina to make the spiritual ascent. It's not because they are insincere or inept. They are staggering under the accumulated burden of destructive habits. This burden always returns after the peek experience, by contrast even heavier than before. Each of us walks the trail of life, collecting rocks (physical and mental habits) along the way. These rocks are formed from fleeing fears: mental trauma, physical abuse, broken relationships, etc. or chasing desires: pleasant experiences that entice us, or have come and gone, or are clung to in the desperate need to keep them from ever leaving. We carefully place each rock into our ego backpack. We believe that by containing each rock, we can control it, but it only adds to the weight we are carrying until it becomes unbearable. How do you sustain an arduous hike under such a burden? It's impossible. You can only ascend when you realize that the rocks must be removed. They are not only the source of your suffering, but are the reason you have not been able to attain the summit. This realization is the turning point in your spiritual journey. Usually, it only happens when you become so self-exhausted that you cannot go any farther. Life slams you hard enough and long enough that you finally open your eyes. You realize that all this time, fleeing fears and chasing desires has been the cause of your own damnation. Suffering, when leveraged, is the greatest grace. Initially it only adds to your burden, but when applied to the spiritual journey, to deepen your surrender of external pursuits, it will ultimately set you free. Whatever path you take (self-inquiry, meditation, yoga, renunciation, devotion, service, psychedelics), it can only bring you to the inner gate. Passing through to the other side, which is being absolute awareness, requires surrender. The ego, with its bulging backpack of lies, must be dropped to the ground, so you are small enough to fit through the narrow way. It is the final step of trust, which is the deepest love, that reunites you with yourself. The absolute realizes that all this time, it has been fooling itself by casting awareness externally, into the cosmos of its imagination. It has completed another night journey away from and back to itself. Awareness has traveled from twilight to darkness, and finally to dawn within the dream. Now, just before the sun ascends to its full glory, you are free to enjoy the receding stories of the dream, no longer being bound by them.

@KGrimes You're right that the mind is tricky, and are wise to be wary of it. It takes deep inner insight, yoked with sincere integration, for the mind to become domesticated. There are good therapists out there, but you have to keep looking until you find the right person for you. It's true that most therapists aren't awakened, but all you truly need is someone that can provide a safe space and ask questions that help you find the answers within yourself. There's a reason one of the traditional paths of awakening is bhakti, or devotion with the guidance of a guru. It is all the same summit, just different paths of getting there, based on the individual dispositions and strengths of the aspirant.

@Carl-Richard Spiritual spelunking You have to face the darkness and descend into the dragon's lair before being granted access to its hoard.

The prospect of such a sacrifice can scare people into dropping the pickaxe and running back to the entrance of the spiritual cave. So it goes until they finally tire of running, and strike gold.

Exactly. Love is you trying to realize itself, and it is others trying not to realize itself. Regardless of realization, it is still inevitably Love. When you understand your essence, you can't avoid understanding the essence of others. The apparent boundaries separating you from them begin to dissolve. It is all the same essence. Realizing this, how can there be judgment? It is all the absolute, losing and finding itself within its dream. It's ok to distance yourself from toxicity, until you are no longer defined by it. When the absolute awakens itself within you, it will work through you to awaken itself within others.

Loneliness bound by perspective is the lie of solipsism. Love beyond perspective is the absolute truth.

Einstein did

@KGrimes Good for you. Spirituality is therapy. We all have traumas that eventually dissolve in the light of unconditional love, which is your absolute nature. The best therapist walks cowled at your side, encouraging your progress along the inward path, until eventually you arrive at the gate of yourself. You pranam as you leave them behind, enter the gate, and realize that all along the face beneath the cowl was your own.

Every step of your path requires judgment. Eventually you realize that not only are others following the inevitable trajectory of their existence, but you are doing the same. Love is the absolute resonating with itself, within and between the apparent forms of its creation. When this is realized, there is no judgment of the self or of others, only unconditional grace.