Breakingthewall

There's a very seductive spiritual current that says: if you suffer, it's because you're causing it. Stop causing it, and you'll stop suffering. How do you cause it? With your thoughts. The self is only a thought; stop thinking, and you'll stop suffering. Focus on the NOW, and suffering, that error of the human mind, disappears. This is absolutely false, simplistic, and very stupid. Conduct an experiment: torture a dog three times a day for years, terrorize it. We'll see if it's still in the NOW without suffering (do that experiment only in your mind btw). As humans, the energetic structure that forms the self is absolutely real, as real as your physical body. If you have a broken bone in your leg, even if you focus on the NOW, it will hurt and you won't be able to walk, no matter how much Tolle, Mooji, Ramana Maharsi, and their friends tell you that you're creating that problem. If your emotional reality has resulted in a structure that fears, shames, humiliates, limits, coerces, or is inadequate, then that structure is as real as a brain tumor. Both can be reversed, but both can kill you. Denying them, like an 8-year-old thinking they don't exist if you don't see them, will be useless. Worse than useless, it will castrate the possibilities of true reversal, of openness to reality. Denying the self as "just a thought" locks you in, because it's false; it's simplifying the complex by denying it. Surely for Ramana Maharsi, it was like that, because he lacked an egoic structure; he was one among millions, an oddball, not an example at all. And based on that example, which isn't exemplary, many have created a doctrine that sells. It sells because it promises results without real work. It's all in your mind, then, you let it go and...tadah! It no longer exists. No, my friend, if you're terrified of death, you must look it in the face. If you're terrified of others, you must confront them and open yourself to them really. Nothing comes for free! This is reality. Evasion leads to dead ends, aka hell. The real path is direct, harsh, and without shortcuts. Human life is a mission. If you think you're going to fulfill it by staying in a bubble, without real risk, well, a major slap in the face is waiting for you. The end of the mission is opening your heart without reservation, in it is what you are looking for, the absolute, your true nature. To do that all the limits must be broken, and those limits are uncoded in your genes, in your mental waves, in your muscles, in your body, in all your structure. They are real and deep, don't underestimate them, it doesn't work. Internal is interconnected with external, are one, deny the external reality as an "illusion" is a trap.

Most of the spirituality It is based on the denial of human nature. The mind is seen as a prison, desire as suffering, and the ego as the great enemy. This view, even when disguised as non-duality, is rooted in a radical dualism: the real versus the illusory, the pure versus the corrupt, the divine versus the human. The result is a deeply unnatural spirituality. The human being is asked to renounce himself, to nullify himself, to stop being what he is . to cut off all vital direction, every impulse, every expression. At its core, this view conveys the idea that reality has made a mistake , the human being, and that this mistake must be corrected through effort, discipline, and denial. The basis of spirituality usually is the elimination of the ego. Seems that being human is wrong, then we should point to be a plant, that "just be". This is achieved erasing the "falsehood", that is the ego mind. Have the birds ego? Aren't they perfect? Then, why aren't you a bird. Then, we find people trying to be a egoless bird with the giant effort of their ego to stop being humans. They will say: I'm enlightened, now there is not suffering. Well, no, enlightenment happened, and there is nobody here, because who was here was an illusion. It's difficult to be more controller. this vision is false. There is no mistake in human nature, as it's an expression of the reality. The human structure is not to be eliminated, but understood and opened. What the human being needs is not to erase himself, but to open fully to what is. To understand that his form, with all its nuances, is part of the infinite flow. The ego does not need to be killed , it needs to be seen. The mind does not need to be crushed, it need to be open. Desire doesn't need to be erased, must to be aligned. True openness is not about becoming a plant. It is about living without a mask, from within the structure we are, but open to what has no bottom. It means integrating complexity, desire, conflict, and the creative power that is the human being, and allowing it all to dissolve into something vaster, be one with the flow. Or maybe do you think that reality made a mistake and YOU have to solve it?

This thread show me that it's time to abandon this pathetic activity. Shame that this place has become what has become, but this is a fact, a reality. It's time to divorce. Too much toxicity. To low potential to development. I think I tried my best here. But what you find is toxic people, sad people without any real intention of development that make you feel pathetic just for answering. This is the mediocrity. Anyone who tries to do something is humiliated. Goodbye, pathetic mediocrities. Be happy in your pathetic mediocrity if you can. You are a depressing crew, except very few exceptions. Sharing with you send me to the depression.

I'm tired of this forum. It's a absolute loss of time and energy. Be here is humiliating to me. I feel pathetic sharing space with you. As I don't like feeling so loser and so pathetic, I have to find another place to share, or just write for myself and let's see what I could do. Here, the vibration is so sad. So loser. Good luck, nothing to do here.

Yeah , it's not just in the mind, it's in the body, in all the energetic system

Perception is always relationship. It is the flow of reality relating to itself. Without contrast, difference, or movement, there is no perception. There is not false perception, there are degrees of openess. Total openess is the flow of reality perceiving it ultimate nature, that's limitlessness. The flow of reality is being, that is relation. The being can perceive itself as the totality of relationship, infinite relational flow that is, what's called Brahman. It's real, there are no limits and the being perceive it. Then it perceive the impossibility of death in sense of stopping being, because it's limitless. Also there could more closed perceptions, for example perceive that everything is shit. It's not false, it's just a closed perspective, contracted

Yes I understand that. You meditate, and the sensation of the body disappears. There is no form, there is being. And being manifests as brilliant in the sense that it stands out, and full because it lacks nothing. This is the quality of what is. But there is one more step. Sat chit Ananda is still limited in one dimension: it is. It's positive, do you understand? There is another step, the total step. Absolute openness, limitlessness, the cause of being. It is not thinkable or definable. It is an absolute abyss that you look into and dissolve into. It is a total action, and in doing it, you realize from form that your ultimate nature is openness, limitlessness. Beyond being. Take the possibility like possible

Well, when there is a forum, there is a forum. Same with the self. Imo the category "illusion" is a closure. According to what I've read in your posts, it seems that in meditation you achieve a state of openness, right? Pure being, the total plenitude of what is, what in Advaita Vedanta is called sat chit ananda. Sat, what is. Chit, which stands out in itself. Ananda, full, total, without lack. But this is the character of the reality, then it's the flow of the reality, it's form. The form is not illusory, it's an inevitable manifestation of the absence of limitations. What you could say it's illusory is the meaning that we give to the flow, but it's not illusory, it's just a vibration of the flow , a form. It's a closed perspective, can be more open: flow, and more open: substance, pure being. And more open: just openess. No one is false. Are facets of the reality

I perceive the second, of course. But it's stupid to get triggered by that in a forum. To your other questions, I answered you in private Anyway, I deserve some kind of advice, it's important to talk with equanimity in the sense that not attacking other philosophy. But as I tried a lot that idea of the meditation where you are the screen and that and I realized that it's impossible, it's a mistake, I talked like aggressive. That's not the way if you want to communicate . Aggressiveness is a mistake in many senses, a manifestation of insecurity in many cases

Sure , argues happens , it's normal. It's like pathetic get triggered but it's also normal. Every tense situation is an opportunity to see yourself and improve. See yourself is the key.

Anyway, from now on, I'm going to do my best not to get triggered or emotional. I understand that we all fall into narcissistic self-affirmation here, and I do it too. It's something that's essential to avoid, but there's a fine line between authentic expression with the intention of clarity and expression aimed at self-affirmation. No one is a pure saint, so let's all try to work together in the right direction

You can't because you are that belief, the emotion that happens, It's an expression of your entire energetic structure. If you attempt to observe your thoughts or beliefs as the immutable screen on which they appear, what you're doing is focusing on a perceiving center,. creating a duality, which is precisely the self that meditation attempts to dissolve If you are one with your thoughts and emotional vibration, you become one with the flow of reality, which is taking the form of you having a certain thought. By doing so, the meaning of the thought is deactivated. The flow sees itself as flow, and the observer is the form that the flow is now taking, and clarity happens. You might think: So why did you behave emotionally before? These are automatic reactions of the energetic system that you are, gradually equalizing. Pretending to be perfectly equalized is absurd; you are what you are. What means a self? There are many possible interpretations of what the self means. For me, self is the energetic structure that reality is currently taking on in the form of a body/mind system, which is emitting a constant energetic frequency. Maybe for you is the center, or the idea that you have of yourself as a social being. Those are expressions of the system that you are. Naming them illusion is meaningless in my opinion, they are real in its own dimension Maybe I should doubt more and be less arrogant, but I see clear , wrong or right, then I express in a way that could be irritating

Thanks,. that so kind advice from both. At first I took it like condescendence and mocking, crazy right? It's clear that both of you are true and noble. But I already did for many years. spent about 2,5 years meditating for several hours a day and I still meditate every day. I also went on psychedelics hundreds of times. I did 5meo DMT hundreds of times in high doses, specifically contemplating the self. I also dedicated about 10 years to rock climbing, sailing, and gliding in the most extreme conditions, contemplating the nature of fear. I also did a lot of combats in boxing in quite high level contemplating the nature of the dynamic of ego, submission, fear, domination. Was extremely useful. I also started 4 business from zero, 3 with success, contemplating the nature of uncertainty and faith. But anyway, you are very kind, I will do more contemplation following your advices.

Well, sure we are all one from a mystical perspective and all that, but I'm speaking from the normal perspective where you don't want to be hit with a hammer on the head, but you don't mind if they hit the stone with a hammer. The self is an energetic structure as real as stone; it's stable and structured with mathematical precision at the genius level. The thing is, self structures are dynamic; they can change. But if you have a fear of heights, it's not enough to simply let go of the thought of terror; that's a lie. You'll have to practice climbing for five years intensively to retrain your brain. And if what you want is to not react if you see your five-year-old children being tortured, then it's probably impossible. These are the foundations of the self, and you have to see them as they are, so you can align that real self so that it's fluid and transparent, to the extent possible. If the idea: the self is just a thought, it's an irreal illusion created by human imagination, gets installed in you, you will get frustrated trying to silence the self creating a duality, the screen where the thoughts arises, without achieve nothing but a kind of anesthesia that have a price: castration of the alive flow that you are

You can be meditating and the being manifests in its totality, as you say, only the being is real, brilliant, and full. Sat chit Ananda. It's one facet of reality. Then you can perceive the incessant living flow of absolute intelligence and be one with it. This is another facet of reality. And then you can cut off the hand of a guy who put it in your pocket to steal your wallet. This is another facet of reality.

Exactly, appreciate the assessment, which is true, humility aside. It's another thing to disagree or point out errors. Any of us who expound on a topic of metaphysics will do so with exaggerated certainty, since to expound it you must have thought about it a lot and come to a final conclusion. You're not going to expound it by saying: Well, surely what I'm saying is stupid, but maybe the self is real? No, you say it with certainty; that's not arrogance. Nor is it arrogance to refuse to accept unfounded replies. Arrogance is doesn't accept real replies by ego, because admit that you are wrong let's you down. But if you are sure that you are right, not for ego but because you really believe it, you will show it

Anyway, to finishing: it's absolutely, totally obvious, and it's incredible that there is the slightest doubt (sorry for the arrogance but it's obvious), that the self is as real as the body or as a stone. The idea, taken almost as dogma by modern spirituality, that the self is a mental construct, that thoughts create emotions, and that ceasing those thoughts is enough for the emotions to cease, is false. Emotions are the foundation of thoughts (even thoughts feed back emotions), their structural basis, and are determined by neural pathways created over millions of years of evolution. These pathways are dynamic, constantly changing, just like any other reality, but you can't "drop" them, and enlightenment, which has always been the case since it is simply reality, manifests itself, as Ralston says. Simplifying like this traps you, it closes you off. It's a basic error. The consequences are a mind splitted and closed. The opposite than we are looking for

Man, seriously, if you think you weren't trolling and really do you think that you answered properly, one of us is in a parallel reality

Next thread: narcissism and spirituality. With equanimity, humility and kindness

Still waiting for any reference about the topic of the thread. If you don't agree, just explain why.

If I express an idea and you come and counter it with logic, I'll see that my idea wasn't well-formulated, or had some flaw, or was completely wrong. But if you come and say my idea is stupid because such-and-such a teacher says the opposite, or because you simply find it stupid, then your argument won't seem valid to me.

If you read the whole thread, which I don't think you will because it's long and pitifully stupid, you'll see that I've responded dozens of times to hostile and insulting messages with complete equanimity and patience, with thoughtful replies explaining the points as thoroughly and accurately as I can, but there comes a time when frustration wins

Yes, all of them were that my understanding is low, just theory, mimic or real spirituality. But nothing else. When I asked: where is the mistake in what I said? You just say: go to contemplate! Or anything like this. I'm absolutely aware that im totally retarded getting triggered about this situation, but I'm 3 days contemplating this topic obsessively, asking Chatgpt about all the spiritual traditions in relationship of this, wasting hours. It's stupid? Could be or not, it's what I did those days, just a bit of passion about this topic.

Say anything about the topic or about anything, not just insulting and sarcasm. You didn't exposed a single point. Can you do? Talk about the self. Let's see what are your ideas , if you have any

Sure, my reaction is dumb. I can't avoid because I put all that I have in every post (the posts about spirituality, not this argument). I contemplate hours about it. When I said anti human spirituality is the tendency about saying that the self is a thought. I explained in the thread, you could read if you want