Breakingthewall

Great, something interesting. Agree , most of spirituality is evasion, that's what I'm trying to point when I said the the self is real. It's real as a self, same than the body is real, they are energetic structures that exists. Current spirituality is seductive because it denies the self as nonexistent, an illusion. You stop thinking, and that's it, there is no self. This is false. The energetic/emotional structures created in any human are genetically encoded and are built according to life circumstances, just as a plant grows according to its environment, but based on its genetics. Entering into spirituality to deny the self, see Nisgardatta or all neo-Advaita, does not work; it is evasion and spiritual ego. I just try to have conversations about spirituality without putting the ego as a main character. If I say that I think that Huang PO is basically wrong, you could try to explain why I'm wrong, but if you say that I'm ridiculous telling that about a master that millons accept and I do that because I need my mother or other nonsense, then you are putting your ego and your emotions in front. It's absolutely legitimate to analyze and point the mistakes of any master, if not you are someone without criteria who follows the mass. Then spirituality is closed , and as we want to open our frame, it's legit to say that nisgardatta was wrong in the most that he said and people worship him because his charisma, to put an example. If you are not agree, your arguments against are welcome, but if you say that I don't believe nisgardatta because my wounded ego, it's just a projection.

Seems that you didn't read. Let's repeat: I can stop the mind easy because I did a lot of meditation, I can go walking in the street and stop thinking, and if I do sit meditation, more easy. I already told you in the previous post, but if you didn't read, let's see if now you do. Then, I easily perceive that under the layer of the structured thought there are many layers of closure, innate structures that build the human psyche, there is where the real meditation starts, when you see what you are. Then , let's see if this time you get my idea: the thoughts are just a consequence, stopping thinking is not the real deal , it's just superficial. I'm telling it because I did meditation and psychedelics for years. Anyway, let's stop those conversations, if you can't do a real conversation , do your thing to feel good.

Even he didn't smoke it's obvious that he operates from a closed frame and tried to seduce and appear interesting I think it's very easy stop thinking, if you use to meditate you can stop the thoughts easily. If you really trascend the conceptual level you would perceive that there are many levels in the psyche, they are in your cells, energetic structures absolutely real and very strong. The real work starts here, when you see beyond the conceptual. The conceptual is just the surface.

The question would be: if you find a wallet with 5k , you would call the owner or not? If you would do, why exactly?

I understand your point, since he's famous, it's crazy that I dare to say he's wrong. That's why you smile. It's good that he smoked 80 cigarettes per day, it shows he was enlightened Then action is not love? Or thoughts? Aren't they love?

Humans are social beings, without the hive we are nothing, language and conceptual thought comes from the relationship with others. A human is a part, then solitude use to be sad except for some people very special and not necessarily spiritual.

Nisgardetta is interesting but very vague, limited, and frustrating. It completely denies form and self as nonexistent. Mystics who claim that the reality of form doesn't exist are very toxic; they instill in people's minds ideas that close their minds. Look for example that quote, it's designed to sounds great, to sell. It's meaningless. Nisgardatta was a guy with some natural openness, charismatic but swallow. And a compulsive smoker. Someone who needs intoxicating his body all time operates from the lack. But maybe you think that this is just a thought? Who has that purpose? Why there is a purpose? A purpose implies intention to achieve a goal, then implies lack, because it's done to get something that you lack.

When the mind is empty of thought many things can be there, fear, lack, sadness, desire. The real barriers are energetic not just conceptual thought. It's not difficult empty the mind if you use to do meditation I didn't use the word infinity. Ok, then, when your mind is empty and you are enlightened as you said, what is the reality? Try to explain it

Yours aren't beliefs? Seems that your goal is disempower the others to empower yourself. So, the other guy shouldn't believe what he said because are beliefs but he should believe what you said because are truths? Where is the difference?

Exactly, the experience is the only thing that exists because experience=existence. But the reality, the absolute, is the nature of the existence. Existence or experience is the movement of the reality. It's always existence because non existence doesn't exist, but the absolute is the nature of the existence not the existence itself. The existence is movement, becoming. Do you see what I mean? Imo is absolutely essential to see that point to free the mind

I think it's better don't use word to define the absolute, but if we have to use some it's better to use words that are open. Anyway the point in spirituality is understanding what closes and understand that the push has to be towards openenss and dissolution What I see is that in modern spirituality the word conciousness is used as sinonimous of absolute reality and it's extremely confusing because conciousness points to a relative idea, being concious of. If you start with a confusing base then everything grows is confusion

You could say open, bottomless, alive, truth, total, everything, limitless, you. But conciousness is like....closed. Anyway it's just the effect that the word conciousness makes in my mental structure, like limited

A psychedelic can help you do it, not do it. To do that, you must be willing to dissolve into reality, an act of true surrender. The only way to see the absolute is to be the absolute. You can't see it from the outside, so you must let your human structure disappear completely and be one with the total. If deep down you don't want to, you'll grab onto something and think you're watching and understanding from the sidelines, but you won't, because there will be duality. It doesn't matter if you take half a kilo of 5 meo, if your inner will is to resist, you will resist. You could read a Sufi named al Hallaj, I discovered him 2 days ago and I think he points to the absolute better than no one

Sure, because although everything you've said is true, they are positive properties that define "something," and therefore close the doors of your perception. The absolute total can only have a negative definition: limitlessness. Or redundant: absolute total. What is sought is the total rupture of the human structure to achieve total openness to the absolute. The rupture must be TOTAL ,leaving nothing behind. Consciousness, intelligence, whatever, are structural frameworks of the human mind. They are not false; they are structures, and structure is synonymous with limit. They seem like open, unlimited structures, but they are not. It is extremely subtle. It is not about having a debate to define what reality is, but about adopting the energetic vibration that allows for openness. It is a fact, not a definition.

Let's see, without change, is there consciousness? You will see that if there is no change, there is no time, there is no becoming, there is no experience, so there is no consciousness. So, for consciousness to exist, change is necessary. Change is always the case, since the absence of change doesn't occur; it's "no happening." But this is not the point, it's what is fundamental . I think it's pretty obvious that both consciousness and experience are expressions of the absolute. The absolute is the source of consciousness and change, where both occur, what allows infinite change and infinite conciousness happen due the limitlessness. And the absolute is you, you could call it God, and in you, experience and consciousness always occur Don't you see it?? It's clear!

Because if you internalize that reality is exactly consciousness, you unconsciously create a mental framework in which consciousness is something taking forms, and you believe it, it's like you really see it, and you believe that's enlightenment when it's just another frame. The point is to break the frame, not to create another one. And the word consciousness, at least for me, is a closure. Let's see, you might agree that reality is you, but you perceive yourself in a limited way. So what you're looking for is to break those limits and perceive yourself as totality, what you ultimately are. Then if you stay in "consciousness," you won't be able to do it. Any closure, any definition, has to disappear. You have to do something real,.a real action outside of the mental framework. Erase the human for a while, and the absolute can manifest. The word "consciousness" is within the human mental framework. The word reality means absolutely nothing because has not opposite, so it's more innocuous.

Sure, psychedelic works but that's depends about some factors. First, each person's innate structure, and second, intention. The intention must be one of openness, dissolution, and surrender. That is, if what you want is to see things, to understand, then you constantly situate yourself in a separate position. If your intention is openness, then it's possible. It's quite simple. At a certain point, you realize that you are not looking at reality, but that you are reality. You truly realize, that there is no outside, there is no observer; this is the reality. Then, the opening can occur, which is that you, as reality, break through the limits. You are total, you have no bottom, and the vitality that emerges and permeates everything is totally obvious. You realize that you are that, that living substance that is synonymous with limitlessness. It's not that it is alive as biology, but that, being limitless, it is, and is total, everything. The point is achieving that openess easy, every day. At first maybe you need psychedelics, then you start to do adjustments in you energetic structure, they happen unconsciously, it's like everything else, if you really want becoming a professional boxer you will do little by little adjustments in your structure in that direction, if you really want openess, same, and things outside start to be synchronized.

You could call it reality , then there is no misunderstanding

Probably it is, those Indian yogis do incredible things but I prefer taking some LSD than training 30 years 😅

I think yes, and nowadays more. But if they start reading neo advaita and current spirituality they will feel that something is wrong. People who has real potential for mysticism use to be intelligent and intuitive, then if all the spirituality is formulated full of paradox, mistakes, twisted statements that are ultimately intended to make the guru appear elevated, basic errors and ideas taken from books without having experienced them, that person will think that spirituality is bullshit for fools who need to escape from reality out of fear

You can call it hologram but what it's sure is an structure, holographic or not

Many people have a wound, a thorn in their heart, a hole in their soul. Many don’t realize it, because that thorn is not something definable, but a configuration in the structure of their psyche, in the existential structure we call human. This energetic structure emits constant vibration, and this vibration is confused with the wound. Negative thoughts, rumination, suffering, dissonance. these are the consequences of a structure that was formed at a given moment and is written in fire. The human psyche works this way. Just as a tree forms its structures from carbon, light, and space, the psyche creates its energetic structures through human relationship. The origin of the wound is always the same: lack of love Once these structures are formed, they are extremely difficult to modify. They are basic, and upon them is erected the structural building of the psyche, the way you are as a human. No matter how much you try to change them, it’s like trying to reshape the structure of a tree. You can bend it a little, change its appearance, cover it in other colors, but it will still be there. When those structures produce suffering, there is a call for change. The only real change is to transcend the psyche, to pass through it and deactivate its charge. To make the structure transparent and operate from openness. There is no trick or escape possible. The thorn will always reveal its reality to you one way or another. You can’t escape. Look: every structure is a structure that gives shape to a matter. This matter is existence, becoming. it is the expression of reality, of the totality. You must make your way toward the total. Open your heart to it. And then realize you are not opening to it, you are opening it within yourself. Let's say that at first you perceive that you are opening your heart to it, then that it is in your heart, and then that you are that. The fire of the total burns the structure, incinerates it, and renders it inert. It remains, but it is transparent. a mere structural support, without poison, without energy. The fire of the total burns like a star for a moment. But if it goes out, the structure gradually regains energetic charge. It must burn just beneath the surface constantly, to keep the structure inert, until you permanently realize that you are the fire. The eternal flame that springs from the unlimited. And any thorn is just the key to open the door. No one can tell you how to do it, because each enigma has its own solution. You are life flowing in the abyss of existence, creating the path with your own movement. Your power is the power of reality, because you are the reality. This perception lies just beneath the surface: expansion that creates universes, dimensions, realities.

I think it happens because the substance erases the load of meaning of the experience, makes your mind empty of meaning, void, then everything seems absolute void, but it's because your heart (metaphorically) is still closed. You erased the meaning of the reality but you didn't open it substance. That substance is you. Then you are closed observing the absolute void, for some people is not bad, like calm, nothing wrong, for others it's very hard nihilism

The people in the past was very ignorant, but nowadays millions have a level of understanding that 100 years ago was impossible. I think it's very important formulating spirituality very clear and without any single mistake, if spirituality is let's say "mysterious", like koans, it's useless, people will think that's bullshit, and they would be right

You could say in that way and you also could say: the fact of an apparent movement and change is happening, even it's the expression of the absolute, then god itself taking a form, veils the absolute nature of god, because the experience drags the perception to the form, making it opaque to the divine nature of the totality. It's the same from another perspective. The point is expressing it in that way that clarifies the most