Breakingthewall

I understand your point , But the way I see it, when your psychological structure is anxiety, depression, and suffering, that's when you find the real motivation to break through the barriers, since there's no solution to your suffering. If there were, you'd apply that solution and remain there. So, what we're trying to do is formulate a spirituality that makes it possible for those who aren't suffering to suicidal levels to find the path to openness. What I see is that the existing formulations aren't correct; they fail on multiple points. If we take Sadhguru as an example, he doesn't formulate an ontology to promote openess , but rather says that with the yogic practices he proposes, this can happen. I can't say otherwise because I don't know. but I do believe that, for example, Buddhism or Advaita Vedanta don't point directly toward openness; at the end of their path, there's a wall. Their nonduality is dual. Buddhism proposes emptiness as the ultimate reality, and emptiness is just a form. Advaita tells you that perceived reality is illusory, unreal. This is the most toxic of all, since the unreality of what is perceived implies a higher, real reality. If you internalize this ontology, you're trapped. It's not innocuous, another path that could resonate with you, etc. It's toxic, a closure.

Absolute truth is being unlimited and total. But it's not something you "know" or "perceive," since perceiving, experiencing, and knowing implies a center, a subject, and an object. You have to open yourself up and be it completely.

Your tone is very aggressive. Do you have self-esteem issues? Perhaps you should try real spirituality. But you have to look in the mirror without a mask. Could you?

@Xonas Pitfall the lagnans point is interesting, but there is another possibility, the only possible if you contemplate it: In the absence of limits, any movement will unleash a wave of infinite cause and effect. Therefore, any event, change, or relationship will have infinite causality. You can unfold the events that led to it without end, which means you could claim that the cause of that movement is all of infinite reality. You could say that God is creating it, so to speak. But this doesn't mean that this infinite cause will produce a predetermined effect, since the range of possibilities and subsequent effects is unlimited and therefore indeterminate. The openness to any existing reality is absolute, and therefore it is absolutely impossible to foresee where its future will lead. An infinitesimal change results in an infinite deviation. This is the essence of reality: openness or the absence of limits in all directions. You can see this in Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle: it’s impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a quantum particle at the same time. This is not due to a lack of measurement tools; it is an intrinsic property of reality. The uncertainty principle shows that there is no absolute fixity of states. You cannot simultaneously know the position and momentum of a particle because they are not absolutely defined at the same time. This means that reality is not completely determined at any point: there is always openness, there is always possibility. This implies that reality is neither closed nor fixed. There is no "ultimate framework" from which you can completely reduce reality to deterministic relations. That is, reality has no absolute epistemic limit. And this openness is not only of knowledge, but ontological: reality itself is structured as open possibility.

@zazen Spirituality says: Form is maya, formlessness is real. Therefore, thought and emotions must cease, and so form ceases, and only reality remains. The reality is that there is always form, with or without thought. Formlessness does not exist, since existence is relative change or form. So what is achieved by seeking silence is exchanging a noisy form for a silent one, which is considered formless. That is, one facet of form is nullified in favor of another, when both are essentially the same. Thus, you remain lost in form, closed to the total by denying a facetz

Yes , most of spirituality comes from Buddhism and advaita Vedanta and deny emotions as maya, searching a state of equanimity and peace that they perceive as authentic. Denying a part of human nature they are limiting it, with the result of closure.

Depending of what is truth for you. What is? For me truth is the absolute, that is the unlimited, that is what we are , your ultimate nature. Then I would agree.

According solipsism Einstein never existed, it's only an idea in your mind that you are creating to make this dream more real. If he have existed, he would be "other". Then saying that maybe he awaked is pointless because it would imply another reality separate from yours

I explained you, let's see now: I'm not talking about a "way", there can be many ways, but only one goal. It's for example like saying that the only correct medicine is curing the patient, not making him sick or giving them placebo. Maybe for someone medicine is making people sick and giving them placebo,but it's not correct. It's not medicine. The goal of spirituality is becoming unlimited. This is the starting point. Then, life is spirituality. Any other thing is false spirituality. Then if you set limits, like denying the self , etc , you are in the wrong path, because lack of understanding about what are you trying to do.

Ok then One is unlimited, but unlimited is not something; it is simply the absence of limitations. In the absence of limitations, relative movement arises. change of state in relation to another state, fluctuation. From this, many perspectives appear. “Many,” within limitlessness, means infinite perspectives, all of them interconnected. They are one, seen through infinite perspectives, each relative to the others. So, if you are a perspective, you are relative, a possibility among infinite others. But if you are the absence of limits itself, then you are absolute. The point is: you are always both

I don't remember. I guess that they could be infinite facets of anything

The problem is that they are interconnected ,they are relative to each other. In a total perspective, there is neither one nor many , there is only totality. That is the absolute. The moment you perceive yourself as “one,” you are already in the realm of the relative, because “one” only exists in contrast to “two” or more. Without the possibility of two, there is no “one.” There is only what is: the unlimited. Therefore, one, many, creation, perception, imagination, synchrony, change, movement, and existence are all relative. “Relative” means in relation. The absolute is not a thing beyond the relative , it is the very nature of the relative itself: limitlessness. Thus, the relative occurs in the absolute: an unlimited relational flux. Every relation is form, and every form is dynamic: incessant movement. What relates is absolute being to itself, unfolding infinitely. It is one and many at the same time: separate, as reflected in itself; one, as perfect interconnection. But relative. The absolute is our ultimate nature, the unlimited, and that is not one, nor two, it's total If there are no limits, there can be no deterministic creation, because the relational flow has no predictable direction. Its causes are infinite, and so are its possibilities. This makes it impossible to anticipate its exact trajectory: becoming then is absolute, because it's the unlimited. The form and the limitlessness are one.

All "absolutes" are connected to each other because they are synchronistic; they are cause and effect of one another. The only way for form to exist is through contrast, and the only possible contrast is dynamic, movement. Reality is infinite relationships unfolding without pause, and relationship means relative. What is absolute is the nature of reality; its form is relative. Form and relative are equivalent concepts. The only possible creator is unlimited potential unfolding in synchronistic relationships, without a center, or with infinite centers.

From my perspective there are only two possibilities: limited or unlimited. This doesn't mean that if you break through the limitation and constantly operate without limits, you're a Buddha or something like that. It means that you perceive yourself without limits, as flow and as essence. "Perceiving" is the same as "being", since there are no limits between one and the other. You clearly understand your immortality, since it's absolutely impossible for there to be a limit like death. From this perspective, your perception of everything graduallychanges , becoming fluid and no longer static. You start perceiving the synchronicity in everything. This is how I see it. I suppose there are other ways of seeing it

Maybe I didn't explain well, Let me put it this way: the goal of spirituality is to break through our limited perspective and exist in an unlimited one. When I say an approach is wrong, it's when it claims its perspective is unlimited when it's limited.

It's not an abstraction, I assume you clearly perceive that you exist. And I assume you perceive that your perceived reality is created by mental processes and perceptions, relational structures that occur, creating a, let's say, interface that interacts with an external reality through perceptions and mental and emotional processes. If you're interested in spirituality, as is the case, you've come to the inevitable conclusion that both your inner and outer reality, and the connection between the two, are " the reality." What is this reality? What is its nature? What prevents you from perceiving it? Is it possible to perceive it? What does "perceiving" mean? Perceiving implies duality; it implies that you perceive reality. So, what are you? What do you perceive? It's easy to realize that "perceiving" is only the way in which reality is manifesting, and you are that reality. Erase all dualities, and only total openness remains. You don't perceive it, you are it. You are the absence of limits; the barriers have been broken. Then a complete shift occurs. You stop perceiving reality as conflicting limits, definitions, and timelines, and you perceive it as flow. You perceive yourself as unlimited flow, and the nature of this flow is precisely limitlessness, absolute openness. This absolute openness is the end of lack, and it's also the structural shift in how your psyche functions. It stops functioning as a self-referential structure operating within a limited framework and begins to function as an open flow without barriers. Then your entire reality is profoundly reconfigured. This is the objective of real spirituality.

There are many people who have a broken psychological structure. For example, me. As I see it, this is caused, among other things, by weak parents. Weak parents can be narcissistic, addicted, abusive, suicidal, depressed, etc. When this is your reality, your psyche automatically covers this up in order to survive as a functioning human. This is the main objective of the psyche when it's forming. Once this structure solidifies, it constantly vibrates with an anxious vibration, since it's not aligned with reality. This is massive today. There are countless approaches to fix, improve, and ease this constant suffering, but in my experience, nothing really works. Because once your structure is broken at the core of your psyche, there is a lack. This is dangerous; it can lead to toxic relationships, addictions, and general misery, even to hellish levels. In my experience, there is only one real solution: the complete rupture of your psychological structure and its opening to your total nature. Once opened, it progressively restructures itself, changing completely. It's not something subtle or light, but total. A progressive equalization begins, an alignment of your structural lines with the flow of reality, becoming more and more precise, which progressively decreases anxiety and opens your perspective without limits

And how can spirituality point toward well-being? I mean, spirituality by definition is the opening to what is, so how would you know that this is the cessation of suffering? What seeks well being would be self help or psychology, it's not wrong, but it's different matter . I don't say that spirituality doesn't lead to well being, but that you can't know it until you open yourself to the absolute.

I will answer again, let's see , the simplest possible: if spirituality doesn't aim to the openess to your absolute nature, it's wrong spirituality . I said the same before but with examples. I'm sorry if you don't like. if you got it, if you don't agree, just tell why

I watched half and it's very interesting. Relative to the thread's topic, it could be said that spirituality tells you that your emotions are something you are creating and that if they cause you unhappiness then you should simply stop creating them, since they are illusory, ego. Just be and let the negative fall, but this is deeply toxic because it is creating a duality between right and wrong emotions and also implying that you are creating them and you are suffering because you want to. The reality is that the energetic structure that you are vibrates in a certain way due to its alignment with its environment, and denying this by saying that there is no self or that you and the environment are one is a closure, and therefore it is a wrong perspective. Not wrong for me, but absolutely wrong, toxic and pointing in the opposite direction of openness, denying the ego as "false" when the ego is a manifestation of reality absolutely real as anything else

No, I see that it's difficult to have a conversation with you. I put an example , lets see if you understand: I compare something that was previously accepted with something that isn't now. In psychology, it used to be accepted that homosexuality needed to be cured. Even now, some psychologists still think this way. But it's fully accepted that psychologists should help human beings to understand and accept themselves, not modify themselves to fit a standard. Do you understand? It's a paradigm shift. So, I think that true spirituality is the human path of opening to the absolute. Another thing is an incomplete or limited approach, and therefore mistaken. The goal of spirituality is that, then any idea that point in that direction is correct. But there are many ideas that point in the opposite direction, because many spiritual masters don't understand what they are doing. Then they are wrong.

That means that you don't agree? Then instead being ironic, what if you say anything structured and precise? No, it's like saying that I'm closed to electroshock to cure homosexuality. It's not closure, it's the clear perception that it's a wrong path.

It's a really big and deep work, as any human evolution. Clear intuition is needed, and the problem imo is that when you get in this path and you start searching and reading, you don't know nothing and what is written is not precise, it's a mess.

Ultimately, real spirituality is the openess to your absolute nature, then if your spirituality is not about to open yourself to your absolute nature, it's not spirituality, it could be religion, self help or psychology. Subjective according to you, but it's absolutely objetive

Solipsism is a limited vision because it implies a limit: you as the center. In absolute openness, there is no solipsism because there is no center. One or many are the same, since there are no limits. Can't be understood, can be done.