Breakingthewall

Exactly ,It's as simple as that. But if an Israeli political party has that in its program, what electoral results do you think it will have? much worse than if it is extreme right with members who look to the Bible to establish future borders. and US supports this unconditionally. So it's normal that there is war.

It seems incredible to me that being right-wing makes you see Israeli colonialism as legitimate. Isn't there a single right-wing person in the world who sees the abuse that the systematic occupation of another nation's lands entails? I mean the settlements in West bank It seems that the thing is: I am right-wing, to be right-wing is to be pro-Israel, so I am pro-Israel. Since I am pro Israeli, everything Israel does is good. The wonderful thing is that they can dress themselves, have a job, drive. You would say that they are mentally retarded, but no...they are just completely dishonest. Everything mine is good, everything yours is bad. disgusting

I thought the word "awake" was prohibited in this section of the forum ?

?I didn't thought you was Jew, I agree with what you say, but what they are doing with Palestine is psychopathic. They are cornering and humiliating them. They should consider them equal humans, recognize them as a state and nation, give them their territory and stop stealing from them, and if Palestine continues to bother them later, we would see, but now they do not have morality on their side, they are bullies, criminals. They are bringing Jews from all over the world to populate the West Bank. What should Palestine do? They need a Gandhi, but the Palestinians are not too smart it seems, but not being smart does not mean that they have the right to erase you from the map as a nation, make you a second-class citizen and expel you from your land. It's very difficult because Israel isn't going to leave west bank, there are religious reasons, sacred land, etc. Insanity.

@Lila9 Yes, the actions of Hamas are horrible and deserve everyone's condemnation, and it would be good if all of Hamas disappeared, this is one thing, and another thing is that Israel has been committing abuse, acts of war, racism and colonialism against Palestine from decades. Both are true. Where I said that I agree with the attack? I only pointed out the intolerable colonialist abuse that Israel commits towards Palestine.

It is not an opinion, it is a fact. Israel has 621 thousand settlers in the territory of the West Bank and continues to expand it. 200 thousand are in a zone prohibited by international law, this fact is defined as a war crime. There are far-right politicians in the Israeli government who promote the greater Israel, that is, all the territory for them, none for the Palestinians, who have a different status than the Israelis. different is obviously inferior. Should the Palestinians see how Israel is taking over their territory?

You are wrong. Israel is entering the borders of another nation, which it does not recognize, to stole its territory. If Israel did not do that, and recognized Palestine as a nation, then morality would be on its side, but if it continues to expand within the borders of another nation, no. You can say that since they attacked him in 1970, then now, in 2023, I take away your lands, but it doesn't make much sense. If he stops stealing land, returns what he has stolen, and recognizes Palestine, maybe there will be peace. It's pretty simple

Israel is expanding every day into the territory of another nation, which it does not recognize, with the excuse that in the Bible its borders were those. It destroys Palestinian houses and villages and settles settlers coming from abroad. do you think this is correct? Why?

True historically, but right now it's quite black and white, the reality is that Israeli expansionism is a continued act of war and an en abuse. It is colonialism, subjugating another nation. and US unconditional support is the same as always, US cares little about justice and a lot about its interests, which are basically influence what is basically money.

This is a situation that has been degenerating for 100 years, judging it simply is wrong. You have to admit the trauma of seeing the atrocities Hamas has committed on defenseless girls and children. That requires a response if you do not want to disappear as an entity. What happened before is indifferent, this demands a response, and in that response we will see how Israel acts. What do you want them to do? nothing? So they are dead as a nation. Even the Muslims knows that a response is legitimate I hope it's the end of Netanyahu, the incompetence showed is criminal, if not directly a premeditated crime

If that were true, they would devastate Gaza and leave no one alive, with Dresden-type bombings every day. You are supposed to be smart guys and here is everyone who is a fan of team A or team B, without nuances. If this is the case here, what will the simple people who are in the real situation be like?

@Scholar that article devotes only two words to expansionism, none to the rejection of the two-nation solution, and none to the inclusion of religious fanatics in the Israeli government. The thing is very obvious, Israel denies the existence of the Palestinian state and refuses to commit to stopping expansionism for biblical reasons. With that philosophy, war is assured. Maybe even admitting the state of Palestine and returning to legal borders, violence would continue, then Palestine would be completely responsible. now it's not, because expansionism is violence

I'm just trying to understand a conflict by putting myself in the shoes of both sides. To think that one is completely right in this case is unrealistic. I repeat the obvious: the illegal settlements, the expansionist ideology, the fanaticism of the ultra-Orthodox who look to the Bible to draw borders. Israel must erase all that to be the civilized part, now it is not. having fanatics who look at the borders in Torah in the government is not civilized, it is irrational and creates religious war. one of the sides must be civilized, fair, humane. If not, it's a war between barbarians with only one reason: who is stronger. One side is less barbarian, ok, but with fanatics that want expansion for biblic reasons. Craziness. deny Palestinian statehood. what reason for this?

You haven't understood me, I'm not saying that that is my opinion, I am saying that that is the Palestinian point of view and that of millions of Muslims around the world. If Israel wants to be the reasonable part with justice on its side, it has it very easy: abandon illegal settlements, prohibit expansionist doctrine, promote the two-nation solution. then there will be a civilized side and a barbaric side. but right now it's not like that

Yes, All of this is perfect if you leave the illegal settlements, stop expanding and prohibit expasionist ideologies within the government. If you don't do that, you are also an aggressor. They do this because they do not have the capacity to attack military targets and their intention is to cause as much damage as possible, because they want a total conflict, killing and dying because for them an intolerable abuse is being committed towards their nation and they don't want to curl up in bed crying calling for mom, I'm not saying that it justifies it, but that's how they see it. It seems absolutely disgusting and horrible to me, but cutting off water and electricity and bombing a city is just as disgusting. The Israelis will say: yes, of course, but if we go directly to fight in the streets, many soldiers will die. so we bombed and cut off electricity in hospitals. Ok, perfect, then we burn children alive because if we go with the paragliders against a military barracks we make a fool of ourselves. party of inhumanity without barriers. The only barrier Israel has is public opinion. without this barrier, genocide and expulsion of all Palestinians and creation of the great Israel, without the slightest doubt

The settlements are aggression and a mockery. In Israel there is more and more extremism, politicians who openly talk about expansion, the other day it was said that this fight is against human animals. Where is the side of justice here? The murderers of child rapists are not on that side. Are those who bomb a city and cut off electricity to hospitals? Who has the theft of land from another country in their program? Who allowed the terrorist to get in to have a reason to destroy? I don't think things are clear at all.

I'm not saying that I personally justify it, I'm saying that it is morally justified from the point of view of being legitimate defense for millons of people. It is what they think, for them Israel is attacking them and since they do not have the capacity for a direct confrontation, they resort to terrorism. Israel, seeing itself attacked, bombs Gaza and also kills. Hamas' way of killing is cruel and horrible, but bombing a city is also cruel, or cutting off electricity in hospitals. Everyone thinks their actions are legitimate and necessary. The point is that Israel cannot continue expanding without consequences, nor have a fanatical religious ideology with fanatics more radical than the Islamists and consider itself the moral and good part.

Yes, but the Palestinians could say that they have to attack to prevent Israel's expansion. Israel does not attack, it expands, and that for the Palestinians is an attack. The solution begins by dismantling the colonies in the West Bank. If they did that, they would have the morality in their side, but as long as they continue to spread in the West Bank and vote for governments that have expansion in their program, Palestinian terrorism is morally justified as their only defense for all the Muslims and many of westerns.

Jews have been hated for tribal identity and for envy. A tribal identity does not tolerate another tribal identity, hatred of those who are different is normal in any primitive human community, and Christians have been very primitive and very hypocritical throughout history, even more so than Muslims. Furthermore, the Jews are more intelligent and do good business, and they have a strong identity. An ancient Jew (and a modern one too) does not want his children to marry with non-Jews, they are completely racist, if that were not the case, they would have disappeared. For me, the ideal of humanity is the disappearance of group identities, the dissolution of all of them into one: humanity. but it seems that this is not close, and the Jews are not pushing in that direction, obviously. As long as this division exists, there will be tribal wars, like the one that has just begun Ok Anyway, the destiny of the Jews is very biblical. They were offered land in Africa and Argentina, but they preferred to go to that hell.

How is it possible that it took them 12 hours to come after receiving distress calls? Israel is very small, they have helicopters, trained special forces, etc. If they continue to occupy territory beyond their borders, they will only get more hatred. It is obvious that the Zionists want all the land, if they did not have the world watching, they would conquer Palestine and that's it, like 2000 years ago, but today it is impossible so they go little by little. This attitude must stop if they want the support of the West. The US should mediate seriously. They are playing with the excuse: they are bad savages, murderers, to expand their territory. The last thing Israel wants is a moderate Palestinian government. The Palestinians should be smarter and see this, but of course, the problem is that the Palestinians do not want the two-state solution either. So, here are two stubborn egoists facing each other. Those reasons are those of the Jews, yes, who have been around the world for 2000 years repeating that to themselves and that has kept them existing as an entity, without dissolving among the other entities where they have lived, which has brought them many problems. It is as if the Arabs wanted to return to Spain where they spent 700 years and founded cities that were very advanced for their time. In fact, there are Muslim movements that speak of Al Andalus. Those are unilateral reasons that do not take into account the other. In history it has always been like this and the solution has been the conquest and expulsion of the other group. but supposedly today this cannot be. So what is the solution? The only thing is to return the occupied territories, two states, not harass the Palestinians, protect the borders, and if there are attacks, eventually close them, as in Gaza, but without illegal settlements and expansionist projects.

seems quite obvious that Israel has encouraged Hamas to create an anti-Palestinian climate and thus be able to push them with impunity in the eyes of its population and the world. They are not interested in a civilized Palestinian government because that would leave them in a very bad place. By promoting Hamas they put themselves in a position to be the good guys in history. Their objective is to throw them out, and this massacre is perfect for their objective, that is why they have allowed it. Hamas is a puppet in the hands of the Israeli government. Once the heat and shock of the massacres have passed, things begin to look clear. Almost sure that the mosad knew that hamas was going to get in, and the army's incredible delay in helping the kibbutzs was almost certainly intentional. If so, the state of Israel is complicit in this, and the dogs of Hamas their puppets. The Israeli government takes advantage of the Palestinians' savagery and tendency to war to achieve its goals, which are obvious: the expansion of Israel. nothing new in human history, human groups in extermination, the same as always. It is sad to see that one of those groups is civilized but continues to behave the same under the civilized surface

Yes, I also tend to that vision but there are some things that make me think...why did they let Hamas in? Why did it take them 12 hours to send the army? I have seen videos where Hamas militiamen walk calmly. Weren't you in a hurry? Did they know that the army would not come? Besides, why does Israel continue to occupy territory? What is his goal doing this? sink Palestine? It's all murky, quite dirty. Right after the massacre I saw everything very clearly, but I see it less and less clear every time.

yes because...where are the aliens? They were supposed to be here, but they've been forgotten faster than Ukraine.

Sure. There is a lot of hate involved. It seems impossible that a solution is impossible, but it is so.

There are two things I don't understand. How is it possible that the army took 12 hours to help the kibbutz when there was telephone communication from the first moment of the attacks, and why the people of the kibbutz did not defend themselves, it is assumed that they have weapons and military training, and in the videos show Palestinians walking calmly through the gardens.